The writer has raised some valid points!
Re: IK & NS
The writer has raised some valid points!
and at the same time, most of the points are utterly absurd. I dont understand how one can compare PML-N to PTI on the governnance stage without taking into account the fact that PTI is neither in government, nor in opposition. PML-N on the other hand, has a healthy opposition presence in the center, and a Punjab govt that they have held on to because of an under-the-table deal with PPP.
He compares the fact that Nawaz Sharif's son is abroad, and so are Imran Khan's kids. This is the same mindless comment Kh. Asif made the other day in a talk show. They mean to say that Imran should pluck his kids away from their mother, and bring them to Pakistan. Im sure if he had done that, they would have been ranting on how cruel Imran is to have separated his poor kids from their mother.
Nawaz Sharif is running a family business in PML-N, and he is running out of ideas.
Re: IK & NS
^^ and i believe IK is doing the same, by the actions of IK, it look likes his objective is not the election but to:
1) Give PPP a easy ride during their current tenure
2) Provide PPP ample chances to win next elections as well...
action speaks of themselves, and the action of PTI and IK is reflecting in above two...
Re: IK & NS
and at the same time, most of the points are utterly absurd. I dont understand how one can compare PML-N to PTI on the governnance stage without taking into account the fact that PTI is neither in government, nor in opposition. PML-N on the other hand, has a healthy opposition presence in the center, and a Punjab govt that they have held on to because of an under-the-table deal with PPP.
*He compares the fact that Nawaz Sharif's son is abroad, and so are Imran Khan's kids. This is the same mindless comment Kh. Asif made the other day in a talk show. They mean to say that Imran should pluck his kids away from their mother, and bring them to Pakistan. Im sure if he had done that, they would have been ranting on how cruel Imran is to have separated his poor kids from their mother. *
Nawaz Sharif is running a family business in PML-N, and he is running out of ideas.
IK's kid live in London or not? and if IK have his reasons, then others have their too... and if IK thinks his reasons are logical and valid then other thinks the same too... what is good for IK is good for others too!!!
The focus of IK has never been to bring the govt down, his entire focus is and was to bring NS down... and there is a reason why people have started believing that IK is nothing but a dark horse of Zardari... don't know if the dark horse theory is true or not but the actions of IK and decisions and his priorities are only strengthening this theory... and i am sure, PML-N will take full advantage of this and would exploit it till the end during the elections...
Nawaz is running family business in PML-N and what IK is doing in PTI, who is Hafeezullah Khan niazi??? care to explain why cousins and sisters and other relatives are taking over PTI??? i didn't posted this article to pick on these nutty things... but i guess the supporters of PTI cannot look beyond their noses... the leader is egoistic and so are the followers... and we say only Jiyalays are Jahil...
Re: IK & NS
There is no need to bring the government down.. Zardari and party are doing an incredible job themselves to accomplish this target.
He has to bring down NS to ensure that the poor people of Pakistan do not fall from one trap in to another.
PMLN has run out of ideas and rapidly losing the supporters.. they are simply frustrated after the son in law episode in KPK and now the Khosa scenario in South Punjab. After losing JH and now Khosa.. PMLN has lost South Punjab totally.
It’s apparent now that PTI has to fight PPP in South Punjab and PMLN in North-Central Punjab-Hazara belt.
Joining hands with PMLN will not benefit PTI in Southern Punjab because PMLN practically doesn’t exist in South Punjab presently. Similarly joining hands with PPP will not benefit PTI because there is very little support for PPP in North-Central Punjab.
I don’t buy this theory that PMLN-PTI clash will benefit PPP..
What are the political compulsions that force a politician as intelligent, clean and bold as Khawaja Asif to sling mud at Imran Khan that in all probability will not stick? Is fighting dirty a pre-requisite to establish political loyalty? Do we, the general voters and consumers of politics, acquiesce in and encourage such form of politics and consequently pick sides on the basis of who is making the argument and not the merit of argument itself? Let us ask Imran Khan all the hard questions and hold him to the standard that he has set for himself. But let us also ask Khawaja Asif and Chaudhary Nisar all those hard questions about the PML-N and Nawaz Sharif and hold them to a similar standard. After all both Imran Khan and Nawaz Sharif are competing for the same job.
Re: IK & NS
^^ The favor Zardari and co are doing to the country is going to haunt us for long time in future, the govt have failed and point has been established, the only think govt is trying to work out now is to get the benefit of the constitution and delay the elections to somewhat 2014, and for that purpose the situation in Karachi is going to get worse and soon govt is going to try to launch a Swat like operation in Balochistan... these two things would be enough to provide the grounds that elections are not possible, they have already said the local bodies/council level elections are not possible...
We all know what is making Balochistan bleed and how to fix it, we all know what is going on in Karachi and who is behind this killing of a dozen people a day, we all know how to fix KPK and FATA.. yet no one seems to be bother, and like the author of the article said, NS is in "ThanD" thinking he is going to be in govt and IK have got ready his Sherwani !!! and my concern is, if this govt gets another extra year ( that would be 2 years from today) then it will be a long process to rebuild the losses...
In this thread, i am not talking about joining hands or anything of that sort, just bring the govt down... and my worst fear is, if political forces didn't do it, then there are already talks of technocrats govt to fix the situation... and trust me when i say this, if this happens, then neither PTI nor PML-N will be able to bring the people on the roads against such move....
Zardari is gifted with exceptional brain and the problem is he know it... all he need to do is pro-long the election, get elected from these assemblies and then bring in the technocratic govt sighting the political crisis country is in... remember he is president and no one but the NA with 2/3rd majority can remove him from his position...
I happened to meet some PML-N and PTI figures and sorry to say the perception in these two party is not focused on national issues, it is more on mud-slinging... and i am getting disappointed of the two and have started praying that Allah may change the intentions of Zardari and he start working in the better interest of Pakistan... these two parties have started disappointing me.... because me as common citizen of Pakistan is no longer on their list of priorities...
Re: IK & NS
I think PMLN is one of the few parties in Pakistan which has the name of its leader attached to it. "PML (Nawaz)", that is, the party belongs to Nawaz Sharif alone.
Ridiculous.
Re: IK & NS
Why do we need to bring a government down? Just to give another clown a chance? Let governments finish their tenure, its the opposition parties who should keep a check (not “cheque”) on the government.
jiyalays say he is establishment man, PMLN say that he is Zardari’s hidden man, wonderful. None could figure out so far what IK wants 
Re: IK & NS
Nawaz is running family business in PML-N and what IK is doing in PTI, who is Hafeezullah Khan niazi??? care to explain why cousins and sisters and other relatives are taking over PTI??? i didn't posted this article to pick on these nutty things... but i guess the supporters of PTI cannot look beyond their noses... the leader is egoistic and so are the followers... and we say only Jiyalays are Jahil...
Family business argument fails for PTI because Hafeez Ullah khan niazi was not IK's son or NS's son who studied abroad and will automatically became chairman of youth wing or co chairperson as soon as they jump in politics. He has struggled with IK for the party and the cause.
Re: IK & NS
^^ and i believe IK is doing the same, by the actions of IK, it look likes his objective is not the election but to:
1) Give PPP a easy ride during their current tenure
2) Provide PPP ample chances to win next elections as well...
action speaks of themselves, and the action of PTI and IK is reflecting in above two...
Therefore IK is equally bad or worse than NS. He has not even tasted the feel of a nations budget in his hand. So he cannot be trusted either. If NS made fortune through money laundry, IK will do the same.
Is this the right conclusion?
BTW, PPP has hit the rock bottom in its history. Apart from some filthy wadera and gaddi nasheen's secured seats due to human worshiping problems, they will not be the second largest party.
Re: IK & NS
PMLN has run out of ideas and rapidly losing the supporters.. they are simply frustrated after the son in law episode in KPK and now the Khosa scenario in South Punjab. After losing JH and now Khosa.. PMLN has lost South Punjab totally.
It's apparent now that PTI has to fight PPP in South Punjab and PMLN in North-Central Punjab-Hazara belt.
Joining hands with PMLN will not benefit PTI in Southern Punjab because PMLN practically doesn't exist in South Punjab presently. Similarly joining hands with PPP will not benefit PTI because there is very little support for PPP in North-Central Punjab.
I don't buy this theory that PMLN-PTI clash will benefit PPP..
But PPP does have a sizeable pesence in central punjan and can carve in 10-15 seats bcoz of N&IK split. Same is true in KPK, where N&IK together can win handsomely but with ANP&PPP combining will have much less seats.
Yazdi you may not buy this argument, but it is in the mind of scores of common people, majority of voters are thinking about it. And there is no easy answer to it. AT one hand, voting for PML-N is accepting an evil, on the other hand letting Zardari&co run another term could be a disaster.
Re: IK & NS
But PPP does have a sizeable pesence in central punjan and can carve in 10-15 seats bcoz of N&IK split. Same is true in KPK, where N&IK together can win handsomely but with ANP&PPP combining will have much less seats.
Yazdi you may not buy this argument, but it is in the mind of scores of common people, majority of voters are thinking about it. And there is no easy answer to it. AT one hand, voting for PML-N is accepting an evil, on the other hand letting Zardari&co run another term could be a disaster.
I am not too sure of voters' dynamics around the country but what you are saying is very possible as we saw in one of the circus voting of 90s, I think it was JI (or some other religious party) who cut in and winner in the end was PPP. Therefore, IMHO PTI/IK's victory will be more meaningful if they can get people to vote who never go out to vote usually, but if they steal each other's voters then we will probably in more trouble.
Re: IK & NS
It was Pakistan Awami Tehreek (Tahir-ul-Qadri, who was used by Benazir Bhutto) in the 1993 election me thinks.
And yes, the result was exactly that, winner in the end was PPP, as Awami Tahreek swayed quite a few of the voters.
Re: IK & NS
Need to talk.
Need to write.
Need to think.
Can F things up.. and take us away from simple facts.
Re: IK & NS
I am not too sure of voters' dynamics around the country but what you are saying is very possible as we saw in one of the circus voting of 90s, I think it was JI (or some other religious party) who cut in and winner in the end was PPP. Therefore, IMHO PTI/IK's victory will be more meaningful if they can get people to vote who never go out to vote usually, but if they steal each other's voters then we will probably in more trouble.
There were two occasions, in 1993, Tahir-ul-Qadri, the renounced leaders, presented interest free banking, was respected all over Pakistan, manages to bring in PPP govt by cutting the votes of PML-N... and that was the end of Tahir-ul-Qadri's Pakistan Awami Tehreek, people suffered from the PPP govt and partially blamed Tahir-ul-Qadri for playing spolier... after that, PAT was not been able to contest any elections in 90s, in 2002 Tahir ul Qadri won his own seat and later resigned from NA. since then he have not participated in politics and is trying to win back his reputation. Like IK, Tahir ul Qadri was popular, his Minhaj ul Quran had libraries and did some welfare projects, Like IK, he targeted NS more than PPP and failed to have balance in his criticism and unlike IK, he presented one of best (so far) no interest based banking system but all this went in the drain....
The next was, none other but over JI, in form of Pakistan Democratic Front, they came with the same formula, stating, both PML and PPP are evil, where PML is more evil because of Sharif brothers and invented the well known slogan, "Zalimo. Qazi Aa raha hay"... Since then, they (JI) were perceived as spoilers in the election games, not sure about Balochistan and Sindh, but in Punjab and KPK, this what they were thought of...
Now IK is following the similar pattern, he is popular among the masses, has done welfare projects, have continuously criticized NS, and now PML-N is taking advantage and is trying to portray him same spoiler we saw in 90s. IK like I said above somewhere have not helped to negate this perception, as a matter of fact, he have worked hard to make it more evident that he is against NS and comparatively in favor of Asif Zardari, true or not, politics works around perception... i won't call my self the last word, but the word from the street is, IK may be not corrupt, but voting him may bring back the Asif Ali Zardari regime and suffering....
People on the other hand, knows that NS is not that honest but general perception about him is, Business and trade activities prevail while PML-N is in govt... and right now, people do not care about the foreign policy and other policies, their main goal is to secure Job and/or save their businesses...
again i must say here, perception may not be reality, but it can over-shadow the reality for some long time... so one may not ignore the general perception... the famous quote of the day in Punjab is, "PML-N targets govt and PTI targets PML-N" ... i will leave you with it...
Re: IK & NS
Sadly, IK have managed to build the same perception about himself… he is been used by Asif Ali Zardari
Re: IK & NS
But PPP does have a sizeable pesence in central punjan and can carve in 10-15 seats bcoz of N&IK split. Same is true in KPK, where N&IK together can win handsomely but with ANP&PPP combining will have much less seats.
Yazdi you may not buy this argument, but it is in the mind of scores of common people, majority of voters are thinking about it. And there is no easy answer to it. AT one hand, voting for PML-N is accepting an evil, on the other hand letting Zardari&co run another term could be a disaster.
This is not the situation, PPP has always been branded as a poor man's party, and due to that the maids and other people who belong to the poor class always preferred PPP over other parties (even in Lahore). But the present regime has proven itself to be anti poor with excessive loadshedding, joblessness, high inflation etc and not sympathetic to the plight of the people. With the result many many people from the poor class will not be voting PPP in the next elections.
The previous elections had the BB sympathy factor as well. The excessive load shedding in Punjab has forced many many people to believe (rightly or wrongly) that they are being discriminated against. All these things will factor in the next elections, central Punjab who exclusively voted for PPP in the previous elections is suffering 22 hours power outages, industries are closing in Faisalabad etc. I dont see any impact of PPP in Central, and Northern Punjab. South Punjab could be the key though.
Re: IK & NS
I am not too sure of voters' dynamics around the country but what you are saying is very possible as we saw in one of the circus voting of 90s, I think it was JI (or some other religious party) who cut in and winner in the end was PPP. Therefore, IMHO PTI/IK's victory will be more meaningful if they can get people to vote who never go out to vote usually, but if they steal each other's voters then we will probably in more trouble.
Well this is scare-mongering by PMLN, the same way they have been getting the anti PPP vote during the past many decades. I fail to understand the difference between PPP and PMLN? Similar to federal government of PPP, PMLN is ruling in the biggest province of the country. Is there any marked difference in that province? Nothing will change even if PMLN comes to power.
Re: IK & NS
.....Now IK is following the similar pattern, he is popular among the masses, has done welfare projects, have continuously criticized NS, and now PML-N is taking advantage and is trying to portray him same spoiler we saw in 90s. IK like I said above somewhere have not helped to negate this perception, as a matter of fact, he have worked hard to make it more evident that he is against NS and comparatively in favor of Asif Zardari, true or not, politics works around perception... i won't call my self the last word, but the word from the street is, IK may be not corrupt, but voting him may bring back the Asif Ali Zardari regime and suffering....
People on the other hand, knows that NS is not that honest but general perception about him is, Business and trade activities prevail while PML-N is in govt... and right now, people do not care about the foreign policy and other policies, their main goal is to secure Job and/or save their businesses...
again i must say here, perception may not be reality, but it can over-shadow the reality for some long time... so one may not ignore the general perception... the famous quote of the day in Punjab is, "PML-N targets govt and PTI targets PML-N" ... i will leave you with it...
Talking about perceptions, here are some....
NS is waiting for his turn, disregarding Zardari and Co's loot maar.
NS and Zardari have a deal about rotation of governments, both trying to maintain status quo.
What has PMLN done to stop the government from doing what it has been doing?
What happened to "Go Zardari Go"?
Why no press conferences against so many corruption scandals of the government but against IK?
PML-N has done nothing concrete to 'target govt'.
The idea was simple from IK. Come clean with your financial position (NS) and resources and we could work together. This is not an unreasonable demand given that for PTI, corruption is THE major problem in Pakistan. PML-N responded with counter allegations instead of trying to come up with a middle ground. Things got worse. I don't think IK has problems with most of the PML-N people but they also need to bring their egos down and talk like adults instead of crying like little children.
Yes, stupidity from both sides. You want IK to balance out the criticism for both PML-N and PPP but ironically you are also continuously blaming one side and trying to portray NS as the victim in this game.
Re: IK & NS
Talking about perceptions, here are some....
NS is waiting for his turn, disregarding Zardari and Co's loot maar. NS and Zardari have a deal about rotation of governments, both trying to maintain status quo. What has PMLN done to stop the government from doing what it has been doing? What happened to "Go Zardari Go"? Why no press conferences against so many corruption scandals of the government but against IK? PML-N has done nothing concrete to 'target govt'.
The idea was simple from IK. Come clean with your financial position (NS) and resources and we could work together. This is not an unreasonable demand given that for PTI, corruption is THE major problem in Pakistan. PML-N responded with counter allegations instead of trying to come up with a middle ground. Things got worse. I don't think IK has problems with most of the PML-N people but they also need to bring their egos down and talk like adults instead of crying like little children.
Yes, stupidity from both sides. You want IK to balance out the criticism for both PML-N and PPP but ironically you are also continuously blaming one side and trying to portray NS as the victim in this game.
How many of these are among the true voters??? i am not talking about the perceptions built by the arm chair warriors like us! i am talking about the real perception in the street of lower middle-class area, where the businesses are slowly becoming part of history and where it is perceived that getting visa to US is relatively easy then finding a job or developing a business under this regime... and one thing they agree, despite the allegations of corruption on NS, they still believe that if he comes to power, economically they will thrive... now a news here is, these people are not highly educated in economic studies, they won't make out the decimals... they work and think based on their experience...
Sorry to say, NS has successfully portrayed himself as a victim, where IK has a full time job to criticize IK, demanding his financial positing and blaming him even for his divorce (j/k)... where as, totally ignoring the issues taking the life out of people of Pakistan...
IK may have best economic plan and team to execute the same, he may have best foreign policy and as he say, but whenever he speaks in public he give statement which make masses laugh, for example, he says, he will come out of this WOT... as if it is Pakistan's choice to enter and leave at its will!!!
PML-N may not be the best party around, but they so far has played their cards right, they successfully portrayed IK as a baby of PASHA, they have successfully used their propaganda cell to portray IK is siding with Zardari...
Problem with IK is, he have nothing in Sindh, despite the Jalsa of 25th December, they are just nothing in that province, they have no significance presence their, the best chance IK had is in Punjab and KPK, where in Punjab he was taken stand against one of its opponent but have not uttered anything against ANP or JUI (F) in KPK, who are going to be his opponent in KPK and Pakhtoon belt of Balochistan...
When IK says that he do not speak about all these parties is because they are already dead, then that argument doesn't help him either... so there is clear need of make-over for IK's electoral politics, which is totally different ball game and from which IK has been shying away from last 5 years or so...