Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

[Submission_To_Peace]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

Ok, this is how I have been taught. I might be wrong though, so I would stop right here and request the rest of the muslim members of this forum to share their views if they think they have any information from authentic source.

p.s. I haven't yet met a single muslim in my whole life who don't believe in what I said about the status of the Prophet (saw).

May Allah (swt) forgive me if I said anything wrong. Allah (swt) knows BEST!

p.s. from the statements:

[QUOTE]
I know what the "offical" view is
[/QUOTE]

[quote]
but I know enough to say that it is not an Islamic belief
[/quote]

I feel curious to ask, " Would you like to share here what you know ?"

[USResident]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

Though not worshipping, Br. STP I would still not make such statements since it gives an incorrect impression. We have been forbidden extreme reverence as it leads to worshipping other than Allah SWT. Though extreme respect is a different matter, which I am sure was your intent. Still I would only glorify our Prophet SAW in terms he saw fit to describe his relationship with Allah SWT (cannot recall any particular hadith at the moment), nothing more nothing less.

[Submission_To_Peace]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

Brother, the reason for using that statement was to specially address those muslims (including myself) who think that Allah love them so much that even if they live their life not according to sunnah (intentionally, without any reasonable excuse) they would still be forgiven by Allah (swt) so they (including myself) should realize that Allah loves the Prophet’s ways infinite times more than our own ways, so let us not decieve ourselves (after intentionally not following sunnah) with thoughts like " Allah (swt) would forgive me no matter how many times I go against the sunnah of the Prophet (saw)"

[USResident]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

@Submission_To_Peace

Brother, the reason for using that statement was to specially address those muslims (including myself) who think that Allah love them so much that even if they live their life not according to sunnah (intentionally, without any reasonable excuse) they would still be forgiven by Allah (swt) so they (including myself) should realize that Allah loves the Prophet’s ways infinite times more than our own ways, so let us not decieve ourselves (after intentionally not following sunnah) with thoughts like " Allah (swt) would forgive me no matter how many times I go against the sunnah of the Prophet (saw)"

Now it is more clear and I agree with this statement. Ofcourse following sunnah has its own implications though. However your opening statement cannot possibly to be subscribed to this explanation, for any initial reader.

[Seminole]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

Muslims don't worship the prohpet in that they don't pray to him and don't believe he has the authority to forgive their sins. But is emulation that much different than worship? Is it not just as dangerous to wish to become an exact human replica of another man, including the appearance, hairstyle, mannerisms, personal hygiene, superstitions, etc? Is all that necessary to have a relationship with God?

Muhammad was a man who had human sin just as the rest of us and he was but one of many prophets. A mere mortal. A messenger.

[35:23] Thou art no other than a warner.

[5:99] The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message, and GOD knows everything you declare and everything you conceal.

[2:136] Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

[4:150] Those who disbelieve in GOD and His messengers, and seek to make distinction among GOD and His messengers, and say, "We believe in some and reject some," and wish to follow a path in between;

[4:151] these are the real disbelievers. We have prepared for the disbelievers a shameful retribution. [4:152] As for those who believe in GOD and His messengers, and make no distinction among them, He will grant them their recompense. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

It seems to me when people say things like "we place the whole universe on one side and the Prophet (saw) on the other side, Allah (swt) loves the Prophet (saw) more than the rest of the whole humanity", we indeed are bowing to someone other than God.

[teggy]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

Muslims follow the way of Muhammad (pbuh) in what he did, how he did it, so we may become as pious as him. That is not worship. What muslims show for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is respect to the highest level.

Muslims do not bow to him because he doesn't have a "symbol" associated with him (i.e., cross for christianty). So there is no worship.

He can be set aside from all the rest because the was the best of mankind in what he did, how he preached the religion and most of all because he wasn't directed to preach to a group of humanity. Islam is meant for all people, of all colors.

Jesus (pbuh) was sent for Children of Israel and it is written in the bible:

Matthew
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

10:6* But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.*

Matthew
15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
15:24 But he answered and said, *I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

*This universality of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is most dearest to muslims. But ofcourse Islam recognizes all the other prophets as well, and states that their mission was the same, message was the same. They were sent for a specific time and to a specific people. Whereas Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the final and last messenger, sent for all the people and all times to follow.

The message has been delivered through him, whether people believe or not is entirely upto them. Just like not all the people accepted Christianity or Jesus(a.s.) as a prophet during or after his tme.
*

*

[muslima21]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

p.s. Just wanted to add one more point which I should have added earlier. This thread is only for "Believing Muslims". Any non-muslim reading this, kindly don't give your services here about the status of the Prophet (saw). Such harsh times haven't yet come on us muslims that we need to learn and understand the status of the prophets from non-muslims.

Thanks

STP please quote this in bold because some people in this thread still couldn't understand/ oblige to your request.

[fat_spartan]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

Muslims don't worship the prohpet in that they don't pray to him and don't believe he has the authority to forgive their sins. But is emulation that much different than worship? Is it not just as dangerous to wish to become an exact human replica of another man, including the appearance, hairstyle, mannerisms, personal hygiene, superstitions, etc? Is all that necessary to have a relationship with God?

Muhammad was a man who had human sin just as the rest of us and he was but one of many prophets. A mere mortal. A messenger. [35:23] Thou art no other than a warner.

[5:99] The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message, and GOD knows everything you declare and everything you conceal.

[2:136] Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

[4:150] Those who disbelieve in GOD and His messengers, and seek to make distinction among GOD and His messengers, and say, "We believe in some and reject some," and wish to follow a path in between;

[4:151] these are the real disbelievers. We have prepared for the disbelievers a shameful retribution. [4:152] As for those who believe in GOD and His messengers, and make no distinction among them, He will grant them their recompense. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

It seems to me when people say things like "we place the whole universe on one side and the Prophet (saw) on the other side, Allah (swt) loves the Prophet (saw) more than the rest of the whole humanity", we indeed are bowing to someone other than God.

On the other hand, many Muslims think highly of the Prophet (SAW) and many try to emulate him. Yet none of them consider to be worshipping him. You're the only who said anything about worshipping.

[Seminole]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

STP please quote this in bold because some people in this thread still couldn't understand/ oblige to your request.

He asked me to share my thoughts and I did. Now do you have anything of value to offer on your 42nd post?

[Seminole]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

On the other hand, many Muslims think highly of the Prophet (SAW) and many try to emulate him. Yet none of them consider to be worshipping him. You're the only who said anything about worshipping.

What do you think of the statement "we place the whole universe on one side and the Prophet (saw) on the other side, Allah (swt) loves the Prophet (saw) more than the rest of the whole humanity"?

I know the term 'worship' is is what is foremost in people's thoughts, but according to the surahs posted, are we bowing to someone when we make this beatifying statements? Did God really intend for his messenger to rise above all of humanity and the universe or was he just a mesenger for humanity and the universe?

[teggy]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

What do you think of the statement "we place the whole universe on one side and the Prophet (saw) on the other side, Allah (swt) loves the Prophet (saw) more than the rest of the whole humanity"?

I know the term 'worship' is is what is foremost in people's thoughts, but according to the surahs posted, are we bowing to someone when we make this beatifying statements? Did God really intend for his messenger to rise above all of humanity and the universe or was he just a mesenger for humanity and the universe?

What do you think of this statement 'He was the best of the believers, and we all try to achieve his level of piety'?

It's real simple Semi. No one worships a man in Islam. If you choose to see and elevate immense respect that muslims have for the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to worship...then your definition needs revision, not the passion muslims hold for the prophet. But ofcourse you don't want to accept that as such.

[fat_spartan]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

What do you think of the statement "we place the whole universe on one side and the Prophet (saw) on the other side, Allah (swt) loves the Prophet (saw) more than the rest of the whole humanity"?

I know the term 'worship' is is what is foremost in people's thoughts, but according to the surahs posted, are we bowing to someone when we make this beatifying statements? Did God really intend for his messenger to rise above all of humanity and the universe or was he just a mesenger for humanity and the universe?

That is just recognition of something. That has nothing to do with worship. Though I respect him greatly, I certainly don't consider myself to be worshipping the Prophet(SAW).

[fat_spartan]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

What do you think of this statement 'He was the best of the believers, and we all try to achieve his level of piety'?

It's real simple Semi. No one worships a man in Islam. **If you choose to see and elevate immense respect that muslims have for the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to worship...then your definition needs revision, not the passion muslims hold for the prophet. **But ofcourse you don't want to accept that as such.

Very well said.

[muslima21]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

What do you think of this statement 'He was the best of the believers, and we all try to achieve his level of piety'?

It's real simple Semi. No one worships a man in Islam. If you choose to see and elevate immense respect that muslims have for the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to worship...then your definition needs revision, not the passion muslims hold for the prophet. But ofcourse you don't want to accept that as such.

Excellent:biggthumb

[Submission_To_Peace]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

Teggy brother (Masha'Allah), you have hit the nail on the head

JazakAllah khair

[Seminole]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

What do you think of this statement 'He was the best of the believers, and we all try to achieve his level of piety'?

His level of piety had nothing to do with the way he brushed his teeth, combed his hair, dressed, greeted people, mannerism, etc.

[quote]
It's real simple Semi. No one worships a man in Islam. If you choose to see and elevate immense respect that muslims have for the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to worship...then your definition needs revision, not the passion muslims hold for the prophet. But ofcourse you don't want to accept that as such.
[/quote]

If you believe that "if we place the whole universe on one side and the Prophet (saw) on the other side, Allah (swt) loves the Prophet (saw) more than the rest of the whole humanity" then what do you call it?

No, you don't pray to him. No, you don't believe he is an equal partner to Allah. And no, you don't believe he can forgive your sins. But when you beatify an individual to this level, it goes way beyond respect and passion. It is saying God doesn't love us as much as just one of his 124,000 prophets. Does this mean that he loves this one prophet more than all 123,999 other combined?

I am waiting for someone to redpudiate the ridiculous statement that God would love one man more than everything and everyone else combined. That is what should be challenged in this thread, not my calling it for what it is.

[Sara516]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

When it comes to public behaviour (not being obnoxious and rude), dealing with others (with kindness and respect etc), even personal hygiene (since hygiene ties into being in proper state of wuzu to pray) I understand how Sunnah can be used among Muslims to better thier actions and strengthen their faith.
But what i don't get is..is sitting a certain way or wearing your clothing a certain way or eating with your hands instead of utensils....do some people really feel that it makes them a better Muslim? Just curious.

[Submission_To_Peace]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

Seminole brother. In order to understand the status of the prophet (saw) you have to first accept from heart and say the following:

"There is no God except Allah (swt) and Muhammad (saw) is a messenger of Allah."

After this when you sincerely search for the truth, Allah (swt) would inshaAllah bless you with "Imaan" (light of wisdom from within) to be able to understand the status of the Prophet (saw).

^ If you don't do it, then unfortunately your heart wouldn't posses the abilty to feel and your mind wouldn't posses the ability to understand the status of the prophet (saw).

I am sure that you have studied Quran very well, and I don't need to mention to you what Quran says about the "condition" of the "heart of a non-believer". Allah has put a seal on the hearts of non-believers so they don't understand the truth. If you want to remove that seal and understand the truth, than accept Islam, by the grace and mercy of Allah (swt).

p.s. You must be wondering why, not a single muslim has yet agreed to your statement in this thread, it is because Allah (swt) has blessed them with the wisdom to understand and feel the status of the prophet (saw).

I am not saying that you lack wisdom. I am sure you must be having all the wisdom of the world, but in order to gain the wisdom of understanding the status of the prophet (saw) kindly consider the first statement of this post.

[Submission_To_Peace]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

@Sara516

. But what i don't get is..is sitting a certain way or wearing your clothing a certain way or eating with your hands instead of utensils....do some people really feel that it makes them a better Muslim? Just curious.

Sister, Everything which the prophet (saw) told us to do, intentionally did different from non-believers and told people to do in the same manner, is something which makes us a better muslim. Though apparantly some of them might not seem to have any benefit, but there is always a hidden wisdom which we might understand with time, after practicing them.

About the way of dressing, a number of authentic hadiths are enough for us to understand why we should dress in that certain manner. When the prophet (saw) has told us to do so, then there is no room left for ifs and buts.

There are so many things which I only used to do because the Prophet (saw) told muslims to do so, yet before doing them I didn't understand their significance in a muslim's life. BUT as I started implementing them sincerely in life, Allah (swt) blessed me with the wisdom of understanding their significance in my life and how I got benefits from them. If you are curious to know I can give few of such examples here

[Seminole]

Re: Ifs and Buts in Sunnah

@Submission_To_Peace

Seminole brother. In order to understand the status of the prophet (saw) you have to first accept from heart and say the following:

"There is no God except Allah (swt) and Muhammad (saw) is a messenger of Allah."

After this when you sincerely search for the truth, Allah (swt) would inshaAllah bless you with "Imaan" (light of wisdom from within) to be able to understand the status of the Prophet (saw).

^ If you don't do it, then unfortunately your heart wouldn't posses the abilty to feel and your mind wouldn't posses the ability to understand the status of the prophet (saw).

I am sure that you have studied Quran very well, and I don't need to mention to you what Quran says about the "condition" of the "heart of a non-believer"

p.s. You must be wondering why, not a single muslim has yet agreed to your statement in this thread, it is because Allah (swt) has blessed them with the wisdom to understand and feel the status of the prophet (saw).

I am not saying that you lack wisdom. I am sure you must be having all the wisdom of the world, but in order to gain the wisdom of understanding the status of the prophet (saw) kindly consider the first statement of this post.

I do not doubt or question the status of Muhammad within Islam and within the hearts of Muslims. It is obvious that he is central to Islam and is supposed to be honored and revered by Muslims. But even Christians - who do worship and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, God reincarnate, God in human form, the most perfect and sinless man to ever walk the earth, the Umpire Between Nations, the Great Peacemaker Between God and Man, The Giver of Eternal Peace, Only Begotten of the Father, the Son of God, Alpha, Omega, the Good Shepherd - would not go as far to say "if we place the whole universe on one side and Jesus on the other side, God loves Jesus more than the the of whole humanity and the universe." I think most would consider that an insult to His creation and His people, which is an insult to Him.

Messengers, prophets and even Sons of God are only here to further the spirituality and closeness of God of His people to Him.

Those are my personal feelings, from my heart, which I feel has been blessed with light of wisdom from God on these issues. But to me they are also common sense. But my feelings aside, the passages from the Quran I posted (and hadith I have read) tells me from the Islamic perspective that Allah does not love Muhammad more than all creation combined.