^ Now that makes me want to do a Baet at your hands, Minime Bhaijan. Jazakallah.
Mini Me,
Of course, I am happy for anyone receiving an education.
That is why the institutions are there, that was the dream of those who built them, and continue to build them.
But, once you have received something from an institution like this, it is your duty to give back, and to say thank you to those who helped create the opportunity. At the end of the day I will settle for enlightenment. I was hoping for more.
I agree with you 100% Nadia.
Just because we come here to study doesn’t mean we owe our mind, body and soul to this country. The US was well aware of the pros and cons of letting foreigners come here and study. Its a TWO way street, it’s what I have been trying to say all along. I gained by studying here but it was not easy, I worked for it and paid my dues. I didn’t come and here file for asylum and live off of social security.
But I am not going to beleive that the only reason we are here is the because of the goodness of the hearts of the American people who are oh so gracious for letting us stay here, how can we ever repay them 
If you don’t like it, write to your senator. If he doesn’t kick us all out of the country like you want him to, then BOO HOO.
Nadz those are some cool thoughts :k:
**To All Others: I really am so bored with this topic that I can’t be bothered to read all the replies…but…seriuosly You guys sure are either THICK or hellishly STUBBORN!
I’ve been trying to make a point again and again and AGAIN and you just don’t seem to get it do you?!
I mean, you’re like totally convinced with your preconceived notions and assumptions and are not even willing to give an open minded thought to whatever I said. You just don’t want to budge or give my posts a chance.
I feel like I’m hitting my head against a wall! I’m tired to the point of indifference now and really can’t be bothered to defend myself or justify myself to anyone anymore.
I know why I said what I said and I tried to explain myself but you guys just are not getting it or maybe just don’t WANT to get it?
You’re welcome to go on dissing what I said and think what you want, its not my responsibility to explain myself to you.
**
Ohioguy You seemed like an openminded guy to me. I’m honestly disappointed by the things you said, specially about how your wife is now going to try and steer funding away from foreign students. I think you said that in the other thread. I’m sorry sir, but that really really sucks!
Makes me sad and I think its unfair.
I might be wrong. But I’m just saying right now and have said before what I think is right and truthful and just.
In the end, whether I’m right or wrong or you are right or wrong, justice is always delivered. I believe in that. God is Just.
Good day all 
I agree Irem, justice is always served. I have already wasted too much time on people who neither understand logic nor make logical arguments. Their failure to counter our points is glaring proof of their intellectual incompetence.
"I'm sorry sir, but that sucks!"
That is the problem with free speech. There are consequences.
What foreign students have gotten by coming here is a privileged opportunity. TO act as if this is a right is ridiculous. Furthermore they do NOT have the same rights as citizens and permanent residents.
WE should do greater due diligence and maybe ban the people from certain countries which are a hot bed of negative American impressions. There are many capable and worthy people out there and rest be assured, our consulates don;t get bombed in thise places.
it's a two way street...if you get an education here go back and change the mindset.
Ohioguy,
We’re trembling pal.
Matsui,
If we go back and then how can we repay our debt to the American people
Historically most dissenters brought up in a Imperial education system tended to rebel, and use the same knowledge against their former "masters". Gandhi was Western educated and almost brought down an empire (consider his famous quote, when he was asked about what he thought of Western civilisation, he said "I think it would be a good idea."). I guess it was the same accusations of being "ungratetful" that led to him being called a "half naked faqir" by Churchill.
The other side of the argument is that, foreign students contribute a lot to the US and Western economies...
OG As I said, I'll say what I want to say, if I think its right. My belief is in God, if I said something wrong, He'll punish me.
skhan ahaan I get you bro, I'm literally sick of this. UGH! Leave it bro. Lets not waste our energies here. We've got better things to do.
Khan, are you saying that Afghan Refugees that lived in Pakistan for over 20 years as our guests owe nothing to the land that took them in – including those who brought tons of money to live on their own without any assistance from the Pakistanis or other NGOs. If tomorrow a war breaks out between the two, I honestly hope that those who were sheltered by Pakistan think twice before killing us.
OG, it is good to hear criticism of our country by these middlers (borrowing Matsui’s term). I wish those darn Pilots, who we trained, had expressed their intentions before blowing up our cities and murdering our people. Why couldn’t those morons be just web tigers like the rest of their brethren.
Madhanee,
How many Pakistanis do you see lining up for payback for their favor? How many Pakistanis do you know of who strip away all the credit from those hard working Afghanis?
It's called character :)
Sir ji the web tigers are web tigers, they are good for this environment. The real tigers live in jungle and you know what, in the real jungle there are no rules of engagement. The rules are just for the web tigers like you and me and the rest of the clan on gupshup.
You can repay by changing the mindset of the mullah brigade back home. Do something witht eh education that this country has provided you.
It is amazing to me..I hear Irem going on and on in Pak forum abut how bad the situation is in Karachi. At many nstaces blaming America for the daily bombs going off. What has this person done to change th esituation considering she was the MSA president in the US and held rallies and practiced advocacy. NADA, ZIP, ZILCH!!!
Education gotten from America, that too from stanford, gave her instant credibility but instead of leveraging that experience, the person continues to shoft blame fo the miseries of Karachites to America. This is the most ridiculous thing I have seen to date.
Irem, I do not mean to single you out on this. But you have perhaps one of the better pedigrees on this site, how you chose to leverage that is nothing but a waste of that opportunity.
People come from these place, INdians included who only interact with other Indians, eat the same foods, never explore and learn about America but are the first ones to bitch and moan about what is their right. Freedom of speech to utter bullsiht about the host country. Blinders about where the ills of their people lie. Never leveraging the opportunity to use the education and opportunity to something more than just point fingers at the very place that gave them th opportunity.
SKKah, You say God is your benefactor. Actually no, I am your benefactor if you are going to a public school. God has other things to do like preemptively blow up suicide belts. :k:
Khan, their best gift to Pakistan is that we can now blame them for Klashankov and drug culture (character, yeah sure). At least they contributed something to the country that gave them refuge. As OG said, if you are not happy here, hurry up and bon voyage.
Storch, Say whatever you want about Saudi Arabia. See, that's the point - i don't want to step on your right to freedom of expression. Ain't that the wonderful thing about genuinely democratic countries?
OG, i don't understand your concept of "polite" visitors. i mean, who's polite to you and who isn't - is extremely subjective. What if Irem joins the "I love Bush" club at her uni - is that polite enough for you? If she pays her membership for the "Vote Nader" club, is that being impolite? Do YOU decide or does someone else? Who's objective enuf to determine that?
Telling each "visitor" that they are impolite because they are expressing their political opinions, is akin to attaching a leash around a person's brain and saying 'this is what you are allowed to think and no further'. Woohoo - i think she might as well move to China then. Or better yet - Saudi Arabia.
[quote]
But give the devil his due. The SAME government that you so easily slam has a good side too!
[/quote]
She's acknowledged that. She already stated that there are some aspects to the country that she appreciates.
Okay, let me press home my earlier example since it seems no one picked up on it. Nelson Mandela, while in prison for 27 years on Robben Island, used the state-funded prison education to learn Afrikaans, to speak Afrikaans, to gain an education, he earned a degree from the university while he was still imprisoned at Robben Island. Ref Zakk's example about Gandhi receiving a western education. So did Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the 'founder' of what is today Pakistan. Imagine, IMAGINE, if Mandela had become mentally subservient to the institutions that had given him that 'elite' education. Imagine if Gandhi had done the same. Imagine if Muhammad Ali Jinnah had not used his London education and training as a lawyer, to his people's advantage to shrewdly negotiate with Mountbatten and the other British officials to fight tooth and nail for the birth of his country. They gained an education in a foreign land. They did NOT give up their right to criticize what they deemed injustices being perpetrated by that same entity.
One does not sign away the right to express her/his sincere political opinion, simply because you get an education from another country.
Constructive criticism is the highest form of patriotism. Anything less, feels like you are simply repeating the societally-correct mantra that your government wants you to. i for one, would rather die, than be told how to think by my government. Countries were founded by people who died for the right to speak their opinions, whether or not it went against the comfy status quo. Thank God we have people like Nelson Mandela and Aung San Su Kyi - thank God there are individuals brave enough to speak out against their government's injustices no matter what type of education they received and from whom. The worst crime is not that one speaks out against what they perceive as injustices; the worst crime is that one doesn't. Gaining a western education, does not mean you have signed away your life-long right to use your tongue and your brain.
Nadia,
You value dissent so highly. When lesbian Muslims dissent, however, your ears are closed. Why the double standard?
Storch,
That's my RIGHT to disagree with whomever i want. That doesn't mean i am going to take a knife to Irshad Manji (sp) and tell her i hate her for being a lesbian. For the love of God, i have bigger problems than some Muslim chick on tv who wants to be a lesbian. i disagree with her comments about Islam, and guess what - that's my RIGHT. Just as i criticize certain aspects of the Pakistani government, particularly vis-a-vis Afghan refugees and Bangladesh, yeah i get hammered for that in the Pak Forum.
i HATE when someone categorizes someone into how they should think. There's no 'should' in free thought; Manji can be a lesbian for all i care. i got bigger problems to think about on my plate than some Muslim chick who's dying for attention. But i very damn well have the right to disagree with her opinions regarding Islam and Muslims. That is my right, i am not hurting her, last time i checked i didn't send her hate-mail. She can say what she wants. She's a big girl, she can also handle my (constructive) criticisms.
Nadia, #1 - foreign students can join any political clubs as they want, but since when do you have a right to vote? #2 – Since when is US an imperial or apartheid power over the students’ who come here to study? If you think that attending 3-4 years at a school enlightens them about their rights, that’s a bit too presumptuous. They can’t even tell their arse from their elbow until they spend a few years in the real environment, i.e. a job. Most students tend to be full of hot air (my class was active in Freedom South Africa movement too, and we didn’t have to go to school in Johannesburg to do that). More power to Paki students about expressing their views, wish they did only half as much back at home too. The whole country has been taken hostage by the fanatics, but never do you hear about these same America educated elite leading protests or joining any movement. Or for that matter fight for the rights of Lesbians in Pakistan.
Not talking of students in specific, but in general, whoever is residing in US for whatever reason or wishes to do so, does consider US as a whole (including its culture, constitution & foreign policy etc.) 'within his or her tolerance' & must consider the 'standard of living' [not financial only] to be better than their past country of residence or origin.
If he or she criticizes the policies or the country in general for any reason, their continuation to stay here or wanting to come here proves that they do give respect where it's due, even if they refuse to say/admit it in public.