Polyandry, form of marriage in which a woman has more than one husband or mate at the same time. Two principal forms of polyandry exist today. Among the Nair people, who inhabit India's Malabar Coast, a woman may marry several men of equal or superior rank. In areas of Tibet, a woman may marry the eldest brother of a family and then also take his brothers as mates. In most countries, polyandry is illegal.
[quote]
Originally posted by kumarakn:
**** Akif: **
.....
Am I missing something or is this the most baseless argument one can make.
**
[/quote]
Its baseless to you, because you refuse to come out of your constant dead-head status. Thats apart from the fact that your motive here is not to learn, but rather to pick on Islam and Muslims, and for that, no explanation will ever satisfy you.
Complete Summary so far!
Men can marry upto 4 women in Islam but women can't because...
[li] It was a neccessity when it was revealed as there were very few men Vs. women as many men had died of war. Also, It provides security to orphaned women and destitute women.[/li]
[li] Polygamy was rampant during that time (advent of Islam), and Islam brought in a regulation.[/li]
[li] Men are physically more capable than women. [/li]
[li] If a women marrys more than one man, it is difficult to determine the paternal order. Men and women are not biologically same.[/li]
*Addendum to most explanation: *
- Polygamy is not a compulsion. Islam permits it only when specific conditions are met.
[li] Nobody is able to produce a quote/quotes where Islam encourages Monogamy as well.[/li]
[li] Lastly some of you have tried to make fun of me/my question clearly indicating a disinterest/inability to discuss this topic. And some others have tried to classify me as where I came in an equation or what type I am.[/li]*******************************************************************************************
I have very carefully worded the following lines to the best of my ability. Please don't jump to conclusions and be offended!
**Islam permits men to marry upto 4 women based on certain conditions while women are supposed to be monogamous. Islam never talks about/stresses the importance of monogamy for men.
It seems to me, Islam fails to understand the depth of a "mordern day marital relationship", the level of committment involved, the emotional intimacy and the one to one companionship in the institution of marriage.
BECAUSE, If we take values like these into account it is logically difficult to accept that these Quranic verses are relevant at this time.
On the other hand, if we have to assume that Quran has the vision to be relevant for ever, then the only logical conclusion is, it is biased in favor of men. **
Comments/counter arguments are welcome!
[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited April 03, 2002).]
Kumar
But you still haven't commented on Hindu, Christian and Jewish polygamy!!
I wonder why.
And as far as asking for a quote where you want to see Monogamy. This just confirms that Dyslexia seems to be getting the better of you.
The Qur'aan beautifully deals with Polygamy and Monogamy in the same verse:
004.003 If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
The bottom line is that no matter what answers you recieve concerning Polygamy, you will never be satisfied with the answer, as Hidden Agendas are always kept undercover!
The fact is that men are allowed to marry 4 women nand women are NOT allowed to marry 4 men.
Why!
Because Allah said so.
Not 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin, but Allah!
002.216 ......... But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
Like it or Lump it!
Sholay:
I will be ahppy to discuss the polygamy in Hinduism in another thread, I don't know much about polygamy among Jews and christians.
Kumar
The good thing about you is sometimes you speak without thinking1
Let's deal with your modern day civilisation attitude and perspective:
In Bali Genealogical descent is traced through the male line, and the family is the
most important social group. Polygamy is permitted, but most men have only one wife. Divorce is common. Therefore males are favoured. Why! Because of Hinduism.
Balinese culture was strongly influenced in the past by Indian civilization. The form of HINDUISM practiced by the Balinese
stresses rituals and dramatic features rather than philosophy and mysticism. The Balinese adopted a modified version of the
Hindu CASTE system, but no UNTOUCHABLES live on the island.
Mormons still practice Polygamy in the USA, even though it was outlawed only a few hundred years ago if that.
Feminists like Elizabeth Joseph state, "that there are not a lot of men worth marrying" so it is better if many good women (read: feminist women) marry the same man. She also practices Polygamy.
Ellen George, now State Secretary of the Utah Chapter, has championed, and now the National Organization for Women has now accepted, that polygamy is a solution to the overburdened lives of women. That it is a feminist solution.
"If you begin by sacrificing yourself to those you love, you will end by
hating those to whom you have sacrificed yourself."
Sholay:
Thanks for joing the group that tries to classify me instead of discussing the topic of the thread.
We would very happy to discuss polygamy in other religion in another thread!
It seems to me, Islam fails to understand the depth of a "mordern day marital relationship", the level of committment involved, the emotional intimacy and the one to one companionship in the institution of marriage.
This is your own personal assumption. Not what Islam says. Since youre so adamantly asking for quotes where Islam encourages monogamy, why not provide quotes where you believe Islam is discouring it? Or why not provide instances where you believe Islam encourages polygamy?
The Quran provides extensive guidelines of how a husband and wife relationship is to be carried. But since you got the reference to polygamy from a 'pick and choose' site, you did not read the guidelines that accompanied it.
If we take values like these into account it is logically difficult to accept that these Quranic verses are relevant at this time.
The Quranic verses are relevant to all eras and times. Polygamy has been allowed with very specific guidelines, and whenever and wherever those guidelines can be met, polygamy is allowed. Simple enough.
On the other hand, if we have to assume that Quran has the vision to be relevant for ever, then the only logical conclusion is, it is biased in favor of men.
Once again, you completely ignored all the responses you have gotten above, which clearly tells of your motives. How can it be biased in favor of men when clearly it is not meant to 'satisfy mens lust'? Polygamy is allowed under very specific guidelines, and is done ONLY when those guidelines can be met. If those guidelines cannot be met, polygamy is NOT allowed.
Akif:
"Being biased against Men" doesn't mean "it is for satisfying Men's lust!"
I urge you to consider Marriage as not merely physcial. Marriage is an institution beyond that!
Go tell ur wife (if you are a male and you are married), that, if you can support another woman as per Islamic regulations, you will marry another woman.
Tell her that you will choose a destitute woman.
Tell her that you will treat both of them equally.
Tell her that is not for merely physical reasons you are doing this.
See how long your marriage lasts.
In Jihadi Islamic culture it may be ok. But in modern day world, your arguments will be simply baseless.
So this again concludes, that these verses are irrelevant for the present day world. or if we assume that Quran is always relevant and everybody HAS to follow it then it will be against the will of many modern day women.
Obviously, it IS biased against them!
[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited April 03, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by kumarakn:
*Go tell ur wife (if you are a male and you are married), that, if you can support another woman as per Islamic regulations, you will marry another woman.
- Tell her that you will choose a destitute woman.
- Tell her that you will treat both of them equally.
- Tell her that is not for merely physical reasons you are doing this.
- See how long your marriage lasts.
*
[/quote]
It would actually be your duty as a Muslim to tell your wife all these things. If she objected, you would not be permitted to marry a second wife.
Kumarkn, I don't think your hear to learn anything about Islam, unfortunately you've already made up your mind on the issue. From what others have posted here, it is quite clear:
- Islam ** permits ** polygamy but does not encourage it
- By placing severe restrictions on polygamy, Islam does encourage monogomy
- Polygamy is only permitted in certain cases, where the first wife agrees to a second marriage
- It is encumbent on a husband to be equitable between his two wives - a condition few can meet
- Historically polygamy has played a role in Islamic cultures where war or some type of calamity has shifted the balance between the ration of men to women. Men being the breadwinners are expected to take care of others
- Polygamous relationships have little to do with physical desire and much more to do with practicalities that arise in specific circumstances
- Islam embraces marriages which are full of emotional, as well as physical bonds between partners
To other Muslim posters: I suggest we ignore Kumarkn. And especially, please do not ridicule other religions, lest they will ridicule ours.
Achtung
if you copare islamic north africa and sub-sahara aids is more prevalent in south.
so conservative islamic practises may one of the reason?
Achtung, my simple question is, why didn't it give similar (allegedly restricted) permissions for Women?
Is (isn't) it biased?
If it was correct based on "Historical reasons" as you say, don't you imply that...it is incorrect or irrelevant now?
Now you talk like me!
[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited April 03, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by kumarakn:
**If it was correct based on "Historical reasons" as you say, don't you imply that...it is incorrect or irrelevant now?
Now you talk like me!
**
[/quote]
How many posts does it take to get a simple point across to you? Or is it that youre simply refusing to believe the explanation provided, since youre adamant in proving Islam wrong?
The permission is in place. Whenever reasons arise that make this permission applicable, polygamy will be relevant. Even back in 'historical times', im sure there were times when it wasnt entirely applicable, and as a result, people did NOT engage in polygamy. On the flip side, even today, there are times when it is applicable, hence men have the permission to engage in polygamy.
Your prejudice is so obvious, its not even funny.
I don't know why you guys aim your guns at the postor when you can't defend your argument.
This damn thread started because Islam does not give such permissions to women that it gives to men. It permits men (on a case by case basis, as you guys may claim) to marry more than one women.
Here is the result which you guys love to hide.
*It is a fact that Islam NEVER encourages or stresses the importance of monogamy ANYWHERE in Quran. It merely lays "guidelines on the implementation" of Polygamy for men * - Which you guys call as restrictions. If they were restrictions, then why did muhammed stress the importance of monogamy? Is it because he didn't practice it? or is it because he didn't value it?
And women are not given such privileges.
It is logical to conclude that in this context, Islam didn't provide enough rights to women.
Instead of calling me names when I speak logic, go ask any neutral person who is permitted to think on his/her own.
Last but not the least, before you repeat whatever you say, please think outside the box. Just consider if Islam could have been biased against women (in this particular context). Let the enlightenment begin!
[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited April 03, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by kumarakn:
**
Last but not the least, before you repeat whatever you say, please think outside the box. Just consider if Islam could have been biased against women (in this particular context). Let the enlightenment begin!
[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited April 03, 2002).]**
[/quote]
1]nobody can understand islam if he or she does not believe in one god.the understanding starts from there.U NEED TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX THAT IS THE HINDU SUPERMACY
2]u fall into void of ignorance on the first step.so actually it makes u unqualified for explanations.i dont know y my bros and sis bother
3]seems like u and ur brothers dont do anything useful except find faults
4]that is probably because ur own religion is so deficient
5]plus u r prejudiced
GET A LIFE YAAR .TAKE UR OTHER BROTHERS TO A BAR OR SOMETHING.
[quote]
Originally posted by kumarakn:
**Here is the result which you guys love to hide.
*It is a fact that Islam NEVER encourages or stresses the importance of monogamy ANYWHERE in Quran. It merely lays "guidelines on the implementation" of Polygamy for men * - Which you guys call as restrictions. If they were restrictions, then why did muhammed stress the importance of monogamy? Is it because he didn't practice it? or is it because he didn't value it?
And women are not given such privileges.
**
[/quote]
Such a lame argument....and repeated by you a million times, and answered a million times above.
Looks like Andhra is taking a break...so you decided to continue where he left off.
Akif:
You can call me whatever you want!
You are neither able to prove that Islam encourages monogamy, nor able to prove that women are treated equally in this respect.
When you can't argue, you attack the postor! Shows how the truth hurts you!
[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited April 03, 2002).]
any MORON who has studied islam knows that the finish line is the afterlife for the muslims unlike non-muslims.
so any MORON wud also know that the reward for women is greater than men in the afterlife.
example if a womans husband is on the deathbed and he dies satisfied with her then no questions will be asked from her by allah.
that reward is not fr men.
example if a woman is a loyal ,faithful and loving wife her normal daily prayers will be equivalent to the prayers of 70 saints.
that reward is not fr men.
example men r known by the names of their father in this world.on the day of judgement they will be known by the names of their mother .
islam is balanced.rights r recognized in a different way.
why !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1because men and women r different in everyway.
Kumar...
Your question has been answered about 50 times in this thread. Its you who is refusing to look at it. Instead, in every subsequent post, you repeat your question just for the heck of it.
At least disguise your prejudice a bit better. You make it so obvious.