Re: If Islam is such a great religion, why did we fail to produce great muslims
Though this thread has almost gone dead, put the pain i could sense in TLK’s tone in this post touched me bad bad that made me sort of revive it again.
Shias also call Hazrat Aisha (r.a) and many companions of prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) bad names or see and portray them as very negative historical figures. Can we overlook hazrat Aisha’s significant role in passing down the knowledge of ahadees, from which even shias have benefited??? Despite benefiting from her contributions, they don’t have respect for her??
I don’t know how you can so blatantly say we love Hazrat umar and other caliphs and companions just because they were close friends of prophet and there is no great deed that they did. Have you even read the history books. Atleast, if not much go and read wikipedia page on Hazrat Umar. I just have this limited knowledge that I am sharing. Hazrat Umar, was the first person who introduced the state welfare system in the world, which was taken to Europe by Abbasids. Isn’t that a shame that they adopted what our muslim men had introduced, but we totally forgot. Today that system is hardly implemented by any muslim state. Still looking for impact on the world or you want approval from the west oh i am sorry the world outside of Pakistan not just west.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Khattab.html
not a biography book, but trust me this is just one small example of how well aware of our ‘past’ they are.
And talk about human rights, the history of jews , they have never ever on earth been tolerated and well treated by anyone as done by muslims, jews have a long history of persecution at hands of other religious groups, if they were ever given their full rights was only by muslims. When hazrat umar had conquered jerasulem, there was a ban on jews imposed by christians from entering bait al muqaddas, it was Hazrat umar who abolished the bans etc and allowed them to enter the place of worship. and still we are hated the most by jews, surprisingly. Would they still ever see those muslims as heros. but still it doesn’t sting as hard as it does when our own peo…
During the thread, once you say the entire muslim history, then you say last two centuries, then you say historiographers’ accounts of muslims, then you say historiographers outside of pakistan (well then that includes all the muslim countries), then you say the western world, here you write US universities, then you ask for the impact on world, I recall that smiley a guy used to use in bombshell babes threads, smiley shooting his own head, bsb effect much?
You don’t like aurangzeb, fine dont. What about Salahuddin ayyubi, sher shah suri.
Aurangzeb the villain in your eyes, but what his father left behind as taj mahal alone brings india a revenue of $288,000,000, took this figure from official site, yes it covers the maintenance costs too.
And if we have to go by foreign historians there was a book on crusade wars on salah ud din ayubi , written by a western author, if you want the name i will dig it out from somewhere, his book totally portrayed him as a negative character. But maybe this is what you would like to believe in more. iguess.
Fine if he was liar, what about idrisi and maqadisi, the first ones to compile the most accurate world atlases. They are some of the famous geographers in the books of history. We don’t even know their names, and those countries have monuments, their statues erected in their honor.
And yes they wouldn’t recognize many names in this list too because to them they are, decres, albatanis, alfarbieus, Avicenna , geber, alhazen etc etc . Have you actually ever approached them with a list? And if muslims today themselves don’t remember those names, should we expect ‘others’ to. But they still do because even in this day and age some of their work pieces are hailed as hallmark contributions in the respective fields.
You talk about the impact on the world. Foundations of so many knowledge domains and disciplines were laid down by these muslims. Having helped shape much of the modern day sciences is not an impact on the world than what?
Almost known by everyone, the words chemistry, algebra are derived from arabic. Can we overlook alhazen’s work, alone in the field of optics? There would be some ‘nikammay’ European historians out there who wouldn’t know these names.
If this story was fabricated, then so was Hazrat Awais qarni’s getting all his teeth extracted, but does that fake story make him any less of a pious figure. A fake story associated with Tariq bin Ziyad would mean that all the accounts of his accomplishments, which are more relevant to us, recorded in the history books are also fake.
The name Gibraltar comes from the word Jabal e Tariq, during the rule that mountain was given the name Jabal e Tariq, which through local accents became gibraltar. and obviously you know that, if you know about the fake story, you must be aware of this too. And yes many of European historians have extremely biased attitude towards muslims, especially the ones coming from golden era, you would hardly get to hear much positive stuff from them. Would their biased views will rewrite the entire history for us?
Don’t know what such evils Jinnah had done, or was he an undercover chor who stole your kohinoor, but what counts for me is the fruit of his hard struggle, maybe the story of his disease TB is also be fake near you, but for me, not, and honestly if I was jinnah and were alive today, I wouldnt have given a heck to working towards a separate nation while suffering from such disease all along, just so to be told at the end of the day, I was not what history had shown me to be. Like Pakistan goes all down the drain. What is left behind is Jinnah’s mud-spattered character, that is what matters the most.
I still recall being told these lines, by nehru’s sister, vijaya pundit, “if only we had one Jinnah in congress, and muslim league had 100 gandhis partition would have never taken place”. Ho sakta hai yeh bhi fake ho
And even mother Teresa had controversies linked with her, that she was actually working towards the spread of Christianity under the label of her cause.
There was a Hollywood film, called Gandhi, if you know about this film, it contained a very negative portrayal of Jinnah. Isn’t that how images are purposefully distorted.
Gandhi, nehru, mandela, mother teresa, this is your own list of aqeedat mandi.
patricia crone, George sarton, martin hinds(surname not sure) are some of the foreign writers who have written books on muslim scientists, rulers including umar r.a.(they are historical accounts compiled together not biographies) etc. One can even find ibn al haitham’s books on amazon.com.
And I remember when I was first reading up on these muslim scientists and other famous historical figures, the most astonishing thing that I found out was that not only had they excelled in these knowledge domains but were equally equipped with the knowledge of jurisprudence, religion and quran, and that too from a young age. Mohammad bin qasim was 17 when he conquered sindh, our 17 year old is a bacha.
How much of the Islam are we following now to ask such question? And if west has achieved so much success despite not following Islam, then have we ever thought the reason behind that. Besides sitting on our couches and hurling blames at others, have we made an effort to at least adopt some of those ‘nice’ traits that have brought them this far ahead. The basic lessons of truthfulness, integrity, honesty etc.
How will great muslims be produced now. West does appeal to us but it’s mainly their celebrities, tv shows, that we find more interesting. Our mils are busy finding ways how to torture dils, dils are busy setting noose around husbands, girls are busy obsessing over designer bunto outfits, and of men well the less said the better. A muslim president brutally butchers his people and equates it with the blood loss occuring during a surgical procedure. World’s second largest religious group(muslims) and we can’t pull Gazans out of the siege. Whilst we are shopping for our kids’ superman costume, far far somewhere a 2year old gazan doll’s bloody dead body is pulled out of rubble. And we are proud muslims.
In my opinion the best thing ever happened to this world is Tlk. and for that i don’t need any historian’s or western eastern nations’ approval or acknowledgment of any sort.
I am going for coffee, will you join me tlk.