If All Humanity Sprang From One Man, aren't we all ..............................

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
**Ali_R!! Did you want a comment on this?
You said.........

If I'm not mistaking HINDUS aren't even allowed to sit on the same table where "non-hindus" are eating.<<

Pure Bullshit!!
I have several Muslim friends and we go to reataurants and I go to their weddings and homes regularly.
I am a Brahmin and I eat at their home.
Who cares?
I mean I am talking as far back as 1980s!!!

AS for the rest, Hindus are supposed to DO and NOT DO a lot of things!!!

Having dinner with Non-Hindus should be the last thing to bother their heads with!!!**
[/quote]

Andhra ji,

That's what an individual thinks, not a whole group of people. I told you about the friend of my father. He used to apply that in INDIA all the way, but he was "forced" to eat with non-hindus at his work place (bein out of INDIA!).

That's another person who is telling the opposite. HE told us that it is "tradition" and you know Hinduism is based only on tradition. That's my point actually.

What you do and other fellow Hindus do is quite a difference.
Your Vedas says don't drink Alcoholic liquors.
But do you people obey that? I can hardly think of any Hindu who does not drink (generaly speaking).
There! You see the difference?
Hinduism has been changed over the years a lot.
What remains is what is actually allowed and what not.
Personal conformity doesn't count here much.

“WheRe iS tHe **JusTice oF **PoliTical **PowEr iF iT eXecutes tHe murdErer and jAils the plUndeRer, And thEn itSelf marcheS* upon neighb*Oring laNds, kilLIng **ThousanDs anD **PillaGing tHe veRy **Hills *?!** ”
*

102

some parts of vedas written under the influense of hallucinigens.
http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/soma_divine_hallucinogen.html

103

Yup, Vedic Aryans are quite the Party Animals!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Vedas contain lotsa stuff on smoking pot and eating Beef!!

104

Is that some proof that VEDAS is all nonsense? Does that mean you don't accept what is written in VEDAS?
Or is that just your observation?
Care to explain?

“WheRe iS tHe **JusTice oF **PoliTical **PowEr iF iT eXecutes tHe murdErer and jAils the plUndeRer, And thEn itSelf marcheS* upon neighb*Oring laNds, kilLIng **ThousanDs anD **PillaGing tHe veRy **Hills *?!** ”
*

105

Ali_R most Hindus don't know Vedas.
Their Religion consists of Birth-Marriage-Death Rituals and going to Temples.
Vedas are interesting from a literary and Anthropological point of view.
Some Hindus take them seriously, some don't.
I am basing my posts on a translation by Rahul Saankruthyayan, a Bengali Scholar.
He was a communist by the way.

106

Y IS IT THAT MOST HINDUS DO NOT KNOW ABT VEDAS AND Y HAVE U GOT NO PROPHET IN UR NATION?COME TO THINK OF IT EVRY MAJOR RELIGION WITH DIVINE SCRIPTURES HAS SOMEONE WHO BROUGHT IT TO THEM

107

DONT TYPE ALL CAPS!!!

Prophets for some reason get rejected in Hinduism. BEit Budhha, Jain and later Guru Nanak.

Not that they are not recognized or respected though!!!

It is like Islam gives respect to Jesus but doesn't give him primacy.

Hinduism seems to respect Prophets but reject Prophethood.

108

[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
Ali_R most Hindus don't know Vedas.
Their Religion consists of Birth-Marriage-Death Rituals and going to Temples.
Vedas are interesting from a literary and Anthropological point of view.
Some Hindus take them seriously, some don't.
I am basing my posts on a translation by Rahul Saankruthyayan, a Bengali Scholar.
He was a communist by the way.
[/quote]

Well then there is no need for you to recite out of the vedas or any Holy Book.
You know this post reflects the content of my 2nd post & 3rd post.
That was exactly what I ment.
Therefore you have nothing to prove my uncles behaviour wrong.
He avoids eating with non Hindus and he will remain like this. Coz he was brought up like this. Upbringing and Mental attitude that controls him.
Same goes for you.

“WheRe iS tHe **JusTice oF **PoliTical **PowEr iF iT eXecutes tHe murdErer and jAils the plUndeRer, And thEn itSelf marcheS* upon neighb*Oring laNds, kilLIng **ThousanDs anD **PillaGing tHe veRy **Hills *?!** ”
*

109

Ibrahim says: the reasons are due to this............

"If a man of inferior caste tries to sit down on the same seat as a man of superior caste, he should be branded on the hip and banished, or have his buttocks cut off." -- Manusmrti 8:281.

"By his very birth a Brahmin is a deity even for the gods and the only authority for people in this world, for the Veda is the foundation in this matter." -- Manusmrti 11:85.

110

Ibrahim get off whichever dope you smoke and read this carefully.

You never give URLs or references despite many requests and now I know why!!

You got this trash out of an anti Hindu Islamic web site didn’t you ?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/mad.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/mad.gif

If I were you I would crawl under a rock Ibrahim.

For all my critical or provocative posts, I never gave references from an anti Islamic web site.

I scrupulously mention where I am getting my Koranic quotes from.

Since you didn’t have the spine to give the URL let me do so!!
http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html

One more thing I understood is how you regularly come up with such long posts and quotations at such short notice.

Now I understood. That web site has a collection of trashy translations and interpretations of Hindu scriptures.
Check out that web site folks!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Ibrahim. I can inly say…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/pukey.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/pukey.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/pukey.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/pukey.gif

111

[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:

Ibrahim says: URL’s are only needed for web site contents with regards to articles and news clippings not with regards to sacred scriptures which has no copy rights.

for scriptures all one needs to give is the book name and verse number

Ibrahim says. Apparently, you want to hide from facing that facts or else you would be looking at the quote and the attached reference for it, not where it is being hosted on the web for all to access.

Andhra, STOP SPINNING AND FACE WHAT YOU HAVE TO FACE!

[quote]
For all my critical or provocative posts, I never gave references from an anti Islamic web site I scrupulously mention where I am getting my Koranic quotes from.
Since you didn’t have the spine to give the URL let me do so!! http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html / quote]

Ibrahim says: O dear, not this spin again, hey go here http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/004535.html and read my reply to DHIR on this very matter with regards to this very URL

Ibrahim says. Getting jealous huh?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

And you call yourself a Brahmin? Sheesz, It is called filing your own works on your own computer into folders so that you can retrieve them my using your mouse! Now if you had stopped to think, you would have known the answer , oh well

BTW I may have about 1 mag of discussions on my PC, everything I write in forums is kept by me, so the next guy who comes along and do the number you are doing all I need to do is locate my reply to you and cut paste it, press send….get it? In addition I keep folders on silly people like you, so that I can recall what you did, when and where, ten years later even, if I have to . It is all part of my function as a rehabilitation unit.

Ibrahim says: only shows that you have been high for quite some time since all these was just trashed out in this week. I do pity you but my pity will have no effect, unless you will be willing to come out of your hole and smell the air.

Regards
Ibrahim

** You have built castles in the air, now put some foundations for them **

112

I would briefly state few very important notes for both parties.
Indian_Muslim, dear there is no point in arguing with andhera bhai sahib,he has accepted the fact in his posts that hindusim is a relegion which can be changed according to the wish and will of its followers. Meaning,god changes his policies according to the needs and wants of its followers.
There is no comparison between Islam and hinduism. Andhera bhai sahib has bias questions.He doesn't wanna listen or learn,he just wants to argue,and trust me it can go on for years.Islam is something which is unchanged,no muslim dare's to change a word from the Quran.Where as hindusim keeps changing.You never know what they (hindu scholars) like tomorow and add it in their book,or maybe erase something.
Take it easy on andhera,he is in andhera,and is willing to stay in andhera.

**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba...kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH

113

Yes Hinduism or the way Hindus live, or in other words, what Hindus think is right or wrong has changed in the last 5 millenia.

Manu smriti, which was acceptable in 2000BC or so, is not practiced as a guide anymore. Similarly, What is being practiced today may not be practiced a few millenia from now.

All mature religions have shown this trend - after all religious codes are created by men! Christianity finally accepted the the Earth goes around the Sun in 1992.

If Islam is such a word of god that will never change, then it will become irrelevant and outdated as humans evolve.

Evolution is a reality. Negligible Muslims wear Taliban style Burqa in America or Europe or even in India. Islam, if it requires that women have to wear Taliban-style burqa, then it has already become irrelevant and outdated in that context.

Islam says, god tore apart sun and moon out of earth! It is wrong. Humans have already proved that moon and sun independently cooled to become celestial objects from gaseous states.

Islam believes that Adam gave birth to the entire human race. There is absolutely no backing to this theory other than blind faith.

If you guys do not change Islam and keep it the same way, I foresee strong indicators of the death of Islam, unless Islam changes to suit the mordern man!

[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited March 22, 2002).]

114

I totaly understand your modernized thoughts and theories. See there is a big difference in our believing system, like majority of muslims would believe in stability. If god is not sure about his policies in the first place,does he qualify for the title "God"?
No. God is suppose to be the one who created everything,who knows what is to be and whats not. When He makes a policy, He is sure about the outcomes.Muslims don't believe in a un-sure God.
Aap kah rahay hain,muslims should change according to the the society. We can't,because we believe and we can prove(if we have time) that Islam is the most mordenised and modest relegion. Christainity and Judisum, these are names given to the same relegion.Jesus never taught Christainity,he taught Islam,so did Dawood (a.s),Musa(a.s),but people gave a diff name. And then tried making it fit their mentality.
For instense, if i like to lie,and its a growing trend now days that if you want to be a successful person,lieing is a very important skill one should learn, now if you think muslims will change quranic teaching that lieing is wrong,then ur mistaken.
When i say Islam is modest,i'm not making it up.Every teaching has a backgroud to it. There is nothing to change,people come to america and learn that every person has his/her privacy,we shouldn't spy on people.We say this is coz we are in america. Well beta,did you ever read Quran???it says in surah "al-hujurat" la-ta-jas-sa-su" which means, in a formal way, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
Every modest believe,trend or whatever you want to call it, is stated in Quran.

I donno if you guys understand punjabi,but there is a shair by bulle shah,which end something like,waikhan wali akh nahi...
the whole shair means, the truth is always out there, but we just don't have the eye to see it.

Anyways,i would love to discuss this further,only if i didn't have a class to go to.
take care
peace

**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba...kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH

115

I have no problem with Islam being outdated.
After all these are matters of perception.
What can look Barbarian to you might look Civilized to me, within certain limits.

What I do have a problem with is this...

Saying we are Muslims but doing Un Islamic things.

After all we are talking about a Religion which considers Music a wrong thing. A photograph is wrong.

Infact most of Modern day-to-day stuff is wrong.

Women doing jobs and going out alone.
Women wearing skirts is wrong.
Men going around clean shaven is wrong!!
Pagan festivals like Basant are wrong.
Internet is wrong because it is open to vulgarity.
Scientific education is wrong in many ways.

What I say is, Great!!
If that is your Religion follow it!!

But don't do things not sanctioned by Religion and still discuss Islam this and that with me!!

And don't get pissed off if I point out the contradictions.

Because by your own Religion, hypocricy is very wrong!!!

116

Evolution is a reality. Negligible Muslims wear Taliban style Burqa in America or Europe or even in India. Islam, if it requires that women have to wear Taliban-style burqa, then it has already become irrelevant and outdated in that context.

This is TOTALY wrong. First of all, lets me state few facts. Quran states to both men women "guard your modesty", pardah is something which is respected in every civilised culture. This is a fact. Would you respect a lady covering her head more or a lady wearing bikini? Lets be real bhai.
There is no particular dress code for muslims. Burkha is just a dress which covers completly, its not a dress code because Quran doesn't talks about any specific dress to be worn by muslims/muslimah's. Wearing whatever,but not showing the body,even tight jeans are not permitted,because we all know,how people walk around commenting womens butts (excuse my lang)
Don't critisize this Islamic practice,deep down we all know that pardah is a good deed.When muslima's wear hijaab/burkah, people accuse us of being oppressed,but when a nun is fully covered she is respected without her relegion being accused of opressing women.
You tell me,is this fair?

**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba...kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH

117

I am not saying Muslims believe in an unsure god!

Man's beliefs need not be set in stone to prove that god after knowing everything makes me think this way!

If man's thinking evolves, why don't you guys accept it as the will of Allah? If tomorrow, wearing a burqa is irrelevant, then let it be that it is still the will of Allah!

Why do you guys have to prove that Allah knows everything. God is a faith. Not a theory!

Have you ever seen any Hindu guy in this forum trying to defend his belief. No! It is NOT because he is NOt religious, but because he feels, he doesn't have to.

God, religion, Adam, are all just a faith! It is good to have faith. You guys don't have to "prove" everything scientific as creation of allah!

This is my umpteenth post on the obsession of muslims trying to defend some Quranic concept that is a totally unscientific one to be true.

118

After all we are talking about a Religion which considers Music a wrong thing. A photograph is wrong.

Infact most of Modern day-to-day stuff is wrong.

Women doing jobs and going out alone.
Women wearing skirts is wrong.
Men going around clean shaven is wrong!!
Pagan festivals like Basant are wrong.
Internet is wrong because it is open to vulgarity.
Scientific education is wrong in many ways.

What I say is, Great!!
If that is your Religion follow it!!

But don’t do things not sanctioned by Religion and still discuss Islam this and that with me!!

And don’t get pissed off if I point out the contradictions.

Because by your own Religion, hypocricy is very wrong!!!

**
[/QUOTE]

Andhera bhai,first of all things you stated as modern things,for me they are not modern but simply vulgarity. It will be disrespectful towards the word “modesty” if you compare em to the ideology of being modern.
Secondly, i argue with alot of my dear muslim brothers and sisters,why do they come to the conclusion that muziq is haraam?Think again, is muziq haraam or rap/curses/choli kai peechai(indian songs) is haraam.
Andhera bhai,ur probably saying something which u have heard your muslim friends say. Never take what others tell you about Islam. There is no hadith stating that music is haraam,but yes anything which would encourage vulagirty or vahyaati,being precise is forbidden. In Islam, anything which can be addicted is haraam, har nasha dainai wali cheez,and being honest to ourselves,there are types of muziq which can cause people to get addicted,and you have probably heard some muslims who listen to qavalis and then spin their head and say we are mast. That is wrong, that is a type of nasha,such muziq is haraam.
Poetry, it is Quran. Guys don’t you listen to Quran. How it is read, the sound people make reciting Quran, its a hadith to read quran in the best manner you can.Tilavat,what is that?isn’t that music?yes it is.
Take any aya of the Quran,and read it, it follows a rhyme scheme. Exam
Surah Naas
Qul-azu-bi-rabin-naas
Malikin-naas
Ila-hin-naas

this is just an example,pick any and you will see.Quran is beautiful poetry,every aya carrys a message and a story.
but again
we just dont have the eye to see all this

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba…kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH

119

andhra:But don’t do things not sanctioned by Religion and still discuss Islam this and that with me!!

And don’t get pissed off if I point out the contradictions.

Because by your own Religion, hypocricy is very wrong!!!

O.K NOW HERE aap baat kar rahay hain,about the people. Then why blame Islam. If i commit something unislamic,its me who should be blammed,questioned-Not Islam.
It would have NOTHING to do with my relegion,but my own ignorence,

Kumar-If man’s thinking evolves, why don’t you guys accept it as the will of Allah? If tomorrow, wearing a burqa is irrelevant, then let it be that it is still the will of Allah!
Why do you guys have to prove that Allah knows everything. God is a faith. Not a theory!

Again the same thing,Allah didn’t tell us,“YOU MUSLIMSH’S SHOULD WERA BURKHA”, He said “gaurd your modesty” and that only our husbands should read us and we shouldn’t be open books so thats anyone and everyone can read.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

burkha is just a dress, NOT A DRESS CODE mairai bhai!!please maan lo. :smiley:
coz its a fact im telling you,not making it up.There is no Aya which says wear burkha.

and then you say why do we need to prove that Allah knows everything. Well we don’t have to prove anything. The truth speaks for itself. We don’t need to prove “God”.
I donno, what is ur definition of the word God. God means the creator,the know,the all wise,the almighty.
Muslims are not trying to prove that Allah knows everything, because we we say He is God, its something which is proven by itself when He gets the Title of “God”

Yea hindus’ don’t defend their relegion,because you said it urself na,Hindusim keeps changing. If their is a fault found, it will be changes

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

so whats the point defending it. Your proud of that hindusim is not a stable relegion, what can i say then.

**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba…kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH

120

my post consists of many gramatical/spelling errors.
i need to rush to my class, please ignore any such errors.

**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba...kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH