Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
Have to agree.
What I don’t understand is the present Israeli action of taking Hamas ministers in costody and wanting to exchange them for the soldier. What will they do with these people once the soldier is confirmed dead?
I think they have lost the plot with this action.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
Couple of points.
Those mentioning 9000 or 15000 rockets should also mention the number of casualties from those rockets, since we're talking about casualties from Israeli operations. The rockets merely have scare utility.
The rockets are fired at settlers, who shouldnt be there in the first place, according to every other country except israel. this isnt an attack on a sovereign state even according to those who recognize Israel, but on settlers illegally living on captured land.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
Doesn’t make it acceptable. The fact that the rockets are inaccurate do not negate the fact that the intention was for more damage. The intention was for every rocket to kill/maime/damage wherever it land.
Illegal settler or squatter. If someone squat on your property, will you resort to deadly rockets to “scare” them off?
Bottom line is that the firing of rockets over a long period of time must have resulted in Israeli anger to build up to a point where the abduction of the soldier was the last straw.
Israel have the correct attitude in holding the present Hamas government responsible for the actions of people working from their territory of influence.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
Those mentioning 9000 or 15000 rockets should also mention the number of casualties from those rockets, since we're talking about casualties from Israeli operations. The rockets merely have scare utility.
The rockets are fired at settlers, who shouldnt be there in the first place, according to every other country except israel. this isnt an attack on a sovereign state even according to those who recognize Israel, but on settlers illegally living on captured land.
Bullcrap. There are no more "settlers" in Gaza. The Israelis dismantled all the settlements and moved out 10 months ago. And your other justification is that they only terrorize the poplulation, and don't kill many? Really pathetic. It is frikkin' wrong, you just can't bring yourself to criticise the Palestinian cannon fodder can you?
"Resisting" by violence at this point is not only useless, it is violence for violence sake. Avenues of negociation have been and are available. Jeeze, the Israelis have unilaterally moved out of Gaza. Do you really think that gaining further concessions will be that hard? The real point is that the Palestinians have made compromise unmanly, and they would rather sacrifice their sons and daughters and their future than to compromise. Real men would spare their families and work hard to build a future, not engage in endless war.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
For how long will you bear them on your property? esp when they get support from all around the world for doing that and you don't get squat... would you be living with them happily ever-after?
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
Then negotiate. Stop firing indiscriminate missles. As OG said such resitance at this point is useless and is violence for violence sake.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
so convenient to shrug off the valid reasons, seems like you like to hide behind certain things too 
Don’t you think US/Europe has also provided enough ammunition to the world already including Israel? Shouldn’t they stop doing that too? Or is it that you are just being selective.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
And you seem to think by posting silly smilies they make your posts funny. 
Yes, I am being selective. And so should countries sharing nuclear technology. Aiding states like North Korea and Iran demonstrates blatant irresponsibility. Now back to the food… why doesn’t Pakistan or any other country that shares the misery of the Palestinian people do something to help them instead of crying about how the people they want to destroy are being helped by others? 
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
Now you are using starving as a literal!? Many states are trying to help, but countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait can’t help as openly as they see “world” opposing help of Palestinians.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
Sorry, but that is a crock. The excuse of blaming the world is soooo tired. But soooo convenient, eh? Seems to be applicable in every scenario.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
Really? Actually Palestinians are tired too, no wonder they have taken the matter in their own hands with whatever the resources avaialble to them. May be you should stop crying too.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
I truly sympathize with Palestinians as they are my muslim brothers however from a political perspective I just don't understand what is their direction. Do they want a state of their own or do they want to eliminate Israel.
Actions like these even in retaliation further them away from either of their cause. Arab countries around them have figured this out and they struck their own peace treaties with Israel. Palestinian leadership is totally oblivious to the betterment of their people. What kind of leadership encourages the doom and disaster of their own people, it just baffles me. It does not take a genius to figure out they (at least at present) cannot win this war. This is no jihad either, objectives and agenda's in this are too marred to be called a jihad.
Jews are not our born enemies, yes no one likes them but I don't see why peace cannot prevail with them. When you are not capable of defeating them at least make a reasonable ally of them so they do not threaten your existence or freedom.
If you want to venture into a Lions Lair then expect to get killed as well otherwise do not do that. Allah is not going to reward any of us for killing and hating jews. I am no friend of jews but the mindset of Palestinians and Israeli's alike has descended into insanity.
The Palestinians should measure what benefit they gained from this incident and how much they lost. The israeli's sure as hell gained a lot, again they gained world sympathy, they will kill palestinians, they abducted a bunch of ministers to barter with now, the prisoners in their jails are totally out of the picture with this now, they will gain more land, they destroyed more palestinian infrastructure which is already crumbling, they do not need peace negotiations because they are already in control and this diminishes the chance of peace talks even more.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
If planning and implementing their own demise through ineffective, immoral and violent means = "taken the matter into their own hands", then I suppose they have. Too bad they can't get more help from their supporters other than blaming others, shedding crocodile tears, whining and complaining.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
^ all accompanied by smilies
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
Actions like these even in retaliation further them away from either of their cause. Arab countries around them have figured this out and they struck their own peace treaties with Israel. Palestinian leadership is totally oblivious to the betterment of their people. What kind of leadership encourages the doom and disaster of their own people, it just baffles me. It does not take a genius to figure out they (at least at present) cannot win this war. This is no jihad either, objectives and agenda's in this are too marred to be called a jihad.
MyVoice, (one of the better, now dormant posters here), and I engaged in a thread years ago about how the Palestinians could change the course of their struggle.
There is nothing wrong with the Palestinian cause, it is noble, just and righteous. However, for the past 30 years, the tactics used have done damage to the legitimacy of the cause. From hijacking airplanes, cruiseships, killing Olympians, suicide bombings, rocket attacks, and now kidnappings, the Palestinians have chosen tactics that are brutal, heinous, and beyond the comprehension of the civilized world.
The net result is that the Israelis can paint the Palestinians as barbaric, and it rings true to those who are appalled by the actions of the PLO, Fatah, Hizbullah, Islamic Jihad and every other splinter militant group. The brutal tactics erode the message, and de-legitimize the cause. Somehow Muslims bite their tounges and make excuses for the Palestinian behavior. They pretend that the tactics chosen don't matter as much as the cause. So instead of demanding that the Palestinians change their methods, they cover their eyes and mutter something about occupation, as if this makes everything OK. The Palestinians don't want to hear that they are wrong, and will accept money and support from anyone who wants to see them continue to attack Jews.
A long time ago MyVoice and I started a thread about how the Palestinians could use the media to support their cause. Organizing mass hunger strikes, targeting gas stations, office buildings or other infrastructure at night, or when unoccupied. Staging sitdown strikes in non-violent ways at random times with media support would do far more than obliterating market-goers in a main street. Since when did Jihad become synonymous with suicide bombings and random rocket attacks? The power of the media, and world perception is far more powerful than the pathetic weapons the Palestinians currently have. Hamas would be truely radical if they changed directions and recruited the media to help it's non-violent struggle. But rather than switch tactics and seize the high ground from the Israelis, they make it extraordinarily easy for the Isrealis to paint them as animals. Thus when the Israelis invade, there is no hue and cry, the world almost understands that in the Middle East if you have power you must use it.
Re: IDF soldier Kidnapped in Gaza
^ OG, you may be right however I guess people vent out their anger over the fact that Israeli atrocities go unnoticed. No one voices anything against them. So tactics do not matter if they serve in the best interest of the parties involved. There is bias in the western media and policies, I'm sure you have to admit that. My objection is that Palestinians have lost their nuts and bolts and their political leadership does not know how to manouver itself without force. Or simply said they lack the smarts needed for their legitimate cause.
I think what is needed is a way to assuage the Palestinian sufferings at the hands of Israeli's. Even they stopped retaliatory tactics I'm sure they would still get victimized. They are the limit of their patience, even the slightest oppression by Israeli's triggers all kinds of emotional and sentimental outbursts. The Palestinians already have the short end of the straw here and yet everyone wants them to compromise, that is not fair. Granted maybe they are in part responsible for where they are at right now but no one responds politely when they are in such a position. Israeli has never tried to be fair with them either and their sincerity in getting this issue resolved is doubtful also. Israeli is not willing to loose any ground or compromise on things the Palestinians want but yet Palestinians should compromise. It should not work this way. However all this said if the Palestinians keep up with this direction there will not be much left to negotiate and the short end of the straw will get shorter till none is left. Or what I am trying to is that they should take what they are getting for now and areas such as Jeruslem, which are disputed should be excluded from the two state solution for the time being (which is what the UN partition plan was back then however the neighboring Arab countries put it down the tubes).