Re: Identity - Nationality
Interesting topic but I dont have time to write.
Just one thing I get from talking to American (real life flesh and blood ones) is that in the US you are encouraged to all be american cits (one national identity)etc wheras in the UK there is no such encouragement its ok to be british Asian, British turk etc.
Do you agree?
Re: Identity - Nationality
No LD, there’s no such thing or encouragement. It is to the contrary. In NYC alone, there are 86 Ethnic Day Parades a year, where people come together to celebrate their heritage. There are 1900 registered Ethnic Channels in the USA alone (check FCC website). You want Siberian? You got Siberian. In NYC, you can take the written portion of your Driving license in Bangla if you like, along with Arabic, Mandarin, Polish, etc.
How many Pakistani/Indian channels are there in the UK? I mean that transmit totally in Urdu/Hindi?
Re: Identity - Nationality
SO expats living in Saudi arabia should be able to walk around in bikins in Jeddah. I mean…why should hte clothes change. You are right, while in the west people have an option to change their clothing style or not, in the muslim world there is no option.
Secondly, these kids live in a multicultural society, of course thier freinds will be of different races. It a white person lived in Lahore, his friends would be Pakistanis. 
Re: Identity - Nationality
I was pointing this out to Madhanee when he said "Pakistani kids generally make little effort to hang out with kids from other ethnic backgrounds, and make very little effort to assimilate."
Again I was talking about some people who try too hard.
Re: Identity - Nationality
Perhaps I should explain a little further, when a child goes to school they sing the national anthem in the mornings (i have been told..and I read the Ramona books) all together pledging the allegience to the flag/country etc.
This grows into a sense of belonging to a group, you have a group identity all Americans, whatever you look like and whatever you worship at home.
We dont have this in the UK, We celebrate multicultralism which is great, but we also seem to have lost the gel that holds different communties together. They only seem to get together in a crisis.
Now getting back to original post, I have to say that I am not one of those people who will hold my hand up and say "Im Pakistani" because I dont feel like one. Never have done but as some postees have mentioned there are peopel who fell very pakistani and would not hesitate to say so.
The generation of Pakistanis who came to the UK in the 60's and seventies came mostly from villages, were working class and worked hard anywhwhere they could and tried to live in areas where there where others with thier background. Pakistan was therehomland and they missed it and loved it and didnt let their (1960s village culture die) . saved up for years (ten,fifteen years to take family back)
these are the places where the newer generations have a very pronounced view of their Pakistaniness.
now tell me if this statement is true,The Pakistanis who went to the US where more affluent, and middle higher class, where comfortable with western attitudes and life styles and were comfortable with their identity...it didnt matter if they changed it of lost it or if it evolved.
Is there a difference in the way Pakistanis view themselves based upon the class of the origional immigrant?
Re: Identity - Nationality
^ absolutely right. With numbers come complacency in assimilation. People want to create their own Pakistan, instead of becoming british or american. This breeds resentment when your culture or values goes against the fabric of the established system. Jews learned this, italians learned this, Irish learned this, Germans learned this...Pakistanis will learn it too some day.
Re: Identity - Nationality
Whats worse is that these kids are growing up in a time warp or bubble...1960s pak village in the pujaab. When they do go back "home"(they call it "HOME") for holidays they thing, Oh My God that girl isnt covering her hair, Those cousins there chose their own husband or wife, she is letting her hubby cook, she's wearing see-through clothes (ok Iv done that too...but its not a pretty sight)
No wonder they suffer from an identy crisis
they are not English
perhaps if pushed theyd say brit but wont truly believe it.
so they are pakistani, but in Pakistan they are Englishstani.
What a pickle
Re: Identity - Nationality
Yeah Lazy… so true. It is not just Pakis, but other migrant groups too. For example, Greeks in the US (Greek Americans) are so much more conservative then Greek Greeks. Greeks came to the US turn of the last century, and they kept their customs so close to them, while Greeks in Greece changed with time. Same is true for Turks who went to Germany as guest workers in the 60s. Same goes for Pakistanis to Textile industry in the UK.
Some seem to believe that changing a little with time is somehow rejection of one’s culture. I left Pakistan some 20 odd years ago, and whenever I go back (0nce a year) I go back to the place and the year I left. Even my grown up married siblings seem to me little kids that I left when I left. That’s just it.
Re: Identity - Nationality
^^^ so like my father, he forgets things evolve.... and Dad if youre reading this, Your nephews and neices are more western than I am!;)
Re: Identity - Nationality
^ Send their e-mail addresses to Roman. Only girl cousins.
Re: Identity - Nationality
Madhanee, I've evolved. Home addresses only, please.
Re: Identity - Nationality
I dont see women in India walking around in bikins!
Re: Identity - Nationality
They should. Going nudie is not suited for Indian women. Not yet.
Re: Identity - Nationality
Mr Roman, why? arent there enough ladies in DC or did you do an Irem un run them all over with your speeding?
Hey theres an idea on how to pick women up
Romy, just run 'em over first!
Re: Identity - Nationality
America and Britain are at opposite ends of the hill so the comparison mentioned is broadly generalised..
Firstly, Amrika is like any good empire a selective melting pot...it revels in it's diversity because Empires need the best of every place to be the most powerful..( this is not unique to Amrika)..while at the same time having treated certain ethnic groups in ways contrary to the image of a melting pot..
Britain is in a post Empire bout of atonement...like Turkey(the former Ottoman Empire) revisionism is the norm..Turkey rejects it's past through obsession with secularism..Britain compensates for it's anti ethnic policies by an obsession with multi culturalism..
Re: Identity - Nationality
Really, I thought poonjabis took more pride in being american then anything else…
Re: Identity - Nationality
^ Yeah, but they are still Punjabis. One can still be proud of one’s ethnic heritage and also take pride in one’s adopted country. Just like the Moohajir people who came to Pakistan are very much attached to their ancestral lands and are proud of their heritage. In Punjabi zaban we refer to them as HindustoRay.
Re: Identity - Nationality
CM, I see where you're coming from, but you really can't generalize it like that. I myself hold an Austrian passport, but rather than introducing myself as an Austrian, I would always say that I'm Pakistani.
The Nationality in your heart counts much more than that on your papers.
Re: Identity - Nationality
Respect and cherish your heritage always.
Pass on traditions to your children. Traditions hold families together.
Also give room to celebrate things that are new.
Reminds me of an old song I leaned when I was a kid...
Everything I know....I also learned in Kindergarten*...
(cept for spelling)
Make new friends..
But keep the old...
Some are silver..
And the others gold.
^
Can be applied to tradition.