i thought europe was more racist than the u.s? i consider myself american because i was born and grew up here, but im still pretty in touch with pakistani culture and we visit pakistan a lot. i know pakistanis here who have never been to pakistan and some who go every year. i think it depends a lot on your parents. and the americans where i live accept pakistani and indian folks, when you go into a pakistani/indian restaurant during lunch time it is usually filled with white people. and my dad and his coworkers often go to indian/pakistani restaurants during lunch.
It's more the families who have moved here during the mid-to-late 90's that are cultured and more traditional.. Its odd I know, but thats what I've noticed.
It's not odd. It's very logical actually. Migrating as a family means more viscidity to one's culture and values system. Young people migrating alone means chances of being more peceptive and open to the environment around you.
very true. I didnt see it that way. Maybe, thats one of the reasons why my siblings and I still associate ourselves more with Pakistan than Australia.. we’re halfies I think.
And u know what though, there are lot more pakistani students here now, and because they have such a tight knit circle as well, they keep their culture and tradition alive. The ones who dont associate with that crowd are very australian.. more than us..
sadzzz is right, it's all about how you were raised. Pride in one's national heritage is often reflected in how one children are raised. Some people don't mind at all if their children can't speak a word of Urdu. Whereas I know other parents who specifically talk only in Urdu and actually teach them reading/writing at home. They feel its important. But I think this is where CM has a point. Such parents who are so particular about their kids in maintaining that connection with Pakistan, are the minority rather than the majority.
Then there are the extreme cases like the ones who severe all ties with Pakistan and actually distance themselves for their origin. But usually they are nothing more than victims of an inferiority complex.
skhan, yeah i think its an inferiority complex. We have quite a few such examples here in Melbourne. The funny thing, they dont realise how much we all laff at their idioticness. Its ok for one to be westernised, but to point it out ALL the time and bag our culture is rather retarded
nahin.. i personally believe women have more of a inferiority complex. All the uncles seem so bhole and shareef.. I just dont think they can be bothered.
Doesn't it make sense that a person would relate to the place they are born, regardless of their heritage? It's just silly to think that a British-Pakistani or American-Paksitani should think of themselves as Pakistani first, and everything else second. I once read a great illustration of this.
"1. Being a Muslim: This part of our identity links us to more than 1 billion people worldwide. Islam is the base of the triangle of our identity. It is the cup of our identity. Without the cup there can be no "cup of tea". After this stage we pour the cup with other aspects of our identity.
Being an American: One can't separate himself or herself from the environment, school friends, neighbors, teachers, TV, music, people on the streets, etc. We have to build our american personality correctly. Through language and the essence of american culture (which is not all negative), american history and legends, an american gains more self consciousness. Nationality is the tea or coffee that we pour in our cup. But still we need something to make it sweet and that's our ethnicity.
Ethnicity: The aspect of ethnicity is preserved through language (usually a second language) or clothes and food (like shalwar kameez or dishdash). We see our roots in our ethnicity and they can't define ourselves without this significant part of our identity.
This is the sugar we add to our cup of tea. (or milk, if Pakistani, hehehe)
Different parts of our identity may have trouble getting along with each other. This may develop a double or even triple consciousness. It means at times we have three contradicting positions on one single subject. Imagine you are drinking tea, and sometimes you taste of tea and sometimes taste the sugar or milk. These two tastes are different though most of the time they give a combined taste. This is natural and there is no escape of it except one sacrifices one part of the identity for others. The most important thing to remember in all of this is that Islam forms the base of our identity, anything must be brought through it first. We all have to move from the false parts of our cultures to the true ones, and bring all parts of our identity in line with Islam. "
This is just another round-about hindsight way of glorifying and instilling religion onto others without merit. A mullah logic overall.
Religion doesn't give you identity. Identity is made up of various ingredients. I've seen people so focused on religion that they're coiled up inside and there is not much left besides just the religion in life, which was all to attain identity to begin with. All the wrong reasons to worship a god.
I think this might be generalization - but I can see where you’re getting it from. For some odd reason, Pakistanis especially - not saying others do not - try too hard to fit in. It shows in how they dress, what they celebrate and so on. And when some of them might try to hold onto their roots, their own cultural practices etc , they are accused of not mingling in with the masses. Which is quite ridiculous.
" Being a Muslim: This part of our identity links us to more than 1 billion people worldwide. Islam is the base of the triangle of our identity. It is the cup of our identity. Without the cup there can be no “cup of tea”. After this stage we pour the cup with other aspects of our identity.
Romeo, yeah. Me thinks the same. In addition, “Identity” is something that by definition cannot be changed. One can change one’s religion, or practice multiple.
The things that are unique about us are our identity, things that cannot be changed. E.g., color (unless you are Michael Jackson), ethnicity, and some other physical characteristics – fake boobs don’t count.
I think what CM wanted to discuss was that in his experience with Pakistanis, he don’t find them attached to their identity (culture, ethnicity) as some other.
MQ, may be some do and others don’t. I think Pakistanis (in my experience) are one of the biggest (the most) insular immigrant community (at least in the US and UK – where there are large segments). E.g., Pakistanis go back to Pakistan to get married (to look for Rishta, etc.) or marry within their own little community (many others do that too). Pakistani kids generally make little effort to hang out with kids from other ethnic backgrounds, and make very little effort to assimilate. Where did you get the idea of them “trying too hard” to fit in?
Madhanee-- From my own experience with Pakistanis. Most Pakistanis that I know, and we have a huge Pakistani community here, the first thing that changes is their clothes, then the foods, then the various cultural practices. Actually to be quite honest, most children that I have seen - we're talking about high schoolers - will have a social circle made up of primarily non desis - or desis who are more into a western way of live. Im not saying there is anything wrong with that.I just at times, get the feeling that these kids do are not exactly very proud of being Pakistanis. Perhaps its a fear of rejection from their peers, Im not quite sure.
I mean I dont think that clothes or foods change where we originally came from. And I dont see what these people are so ashamed of?
And that’s because other Desis are judgmental to them for wearing non-Pakistani dress, eating non-Pakistani food, and hanging out with non-Desis. That’s perhaps why some of them don’t want to hang out with Desis. Because Desis tend to be judgmental.
Most Pakistani are very attached to their culture and ethnicity, more than they realize. I have yet to meet a single Desi who thinks he/she is not Desi. Is it even possible?
I wonder how non-desi's act if they happen to live in a desi neighborhood. I wonder if they mimick our accents sort of like "thankyou come a-gayein" from (harold and kumar).
