Iddah/Iddat

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

:bism:

Yesterday My Mother Finished her Iddah Period (16 May 2004).

I may possibly get a lot of Falk for this, but I would still like to get a few opinions on this issue.

I am The third child in a family of five, my eldest sister is 50 years old, my second sister is 47 years old, I am 42 years old, my younger brother is 40 years old and my youngest brother is 38 years old.

Most Important My mother is 70 years old!!!

My father passed away on January 5 2004, (May God have Mercy on him).

After my fathers untimely demise, my Mother was obliged to observe the Iddah period of 4 months and 10 days. (Thats what the local Mullah told us).

For those who dont know what Iddah/Iddat is its a period of 4 months and 10 days and 10 nights, where you cant even see yourself in the mirror, where all pictures even holy shrines have to be covered with white paper/curtains, where all windows have to be covered with white paper/curtains, where you cant go out of the house, where you cant speak on the phone (Me and my brothers are in the USA but both my sisters are in India, just imagine the agony of my mom and my sisters of not being able to communicate and share the sorrow)

Again my mom was supposed to finish her Iddah/Iddat on 15 May 2004, but guess what we got a call from the same local mullah, it has to be 4months 10 days and 10 nights so now it was 16 may 2004.

Please do bear in mind I am not anti Islamic, My only question is, Is it fair on women be them of any age???

Why the Iddah of Divorce???
Why the Iddah of death???
Why not Iddah for Men???
Why Why Why???

I am willing for discussions, I have done a Ton of research on this issue, and Please no Ayaths or Suras, just plain logic.

As this discussion proceeds I will post some of the Links that I have researched and studied.

I will be honest I never thought about this issue until my Mother had to go thru to it, yes you can label me as an hypocrate or selfish, but that still does not answer my question.

what are your views please do let me know.

regards,

Aejaz

2

Is iddah really a part of Islam or is it an innovation by desi mullahs? I have not heard of Arab women going through this.

3

I am just giving my summary opinion, as I have not researched the issue in any great depth. Iddat is a part of Islam (it is mentioned in the Quran, I beilieve), however it should be rationalized. The purpose of iddat is that a widow or a divorcee woman should not immediately jump into another relationship after her husband dies/divorces her. The four months (or so) is just to ensure that if the woman is pregnant, that will start to show and the paternity of the father is clearly established.

However, a lot of rituals you described are probably just additions by Indo-Pak molvis. I mean, not allowing a daughter to talk to the mother is just bizzare. These maulanas probably took a ruling and completely twisted it to ignore the spirit and just stick with the ritual.

I know some scholars who clearly suggest that post-menopausal women don't need to adhere to strict iddah, but should just show signs of respect to the deceased husband.

In addition, forcing widows to only wear white clothes etc is entirely a sub-continental cultural thing. I doubt if it has anything to do with Islam, at all.

4

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
Is iddah really a part of Islam or is it an innovation by desi mullahs? I have not heard of Arab women going through this.
[/QUOTE]

Yes it is very much prevelant in the middle east, only thing is we are not aware of it, its like a secluded function, coz the person in Iddah, cannot even peek out of their homes, and as is in the ME male female integration is rare, (apart from a few arab countries).

That maybe the reason why you have not heard about it, but look at the flip sideof the coin, I am here in the US of A and we had to go thru it!!

my question still remains, why not men why only women????

and why a 70 year old woman like my mom????? she is beyond child bearing age, and believe you me she is in no mood to get married again!!!!

5

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aejaz: *
my question still remains, why not men why only women????
[/QUOTE]
I think I gave the answer in my earlier post.. Men usually don't get pregnant, hence no iddah for them.

6

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
I am just giving my summary opinion, as I have not researched the issue in any great depth. Iddat is a part of Islam (it is mentioned in the Quran, I beilieve), however it should be rationalized. The purpose of iddat is that a widow or a divorcee woman should not immediately jump into another relationship after her husband dies/divorces her. The four months (or so) is just to ensure that if the woman is pregnant, that will start to show and the paternity of the father is clearly established.

However, a lot of rituals you described are probably just additions by Indo-Pak molvis. I mean, not allowing a daughter to talk to the mother is just bizzare. These maulanas probably took a ruling and completely twisted it to ignore the spirit and just stick with the ritual.

I know some scholars who clearly suggest that post-menopausal women don't need to adhere to strict iddah, but should just show signs of respect to the deceased husband.

In addition, forcing widows to only wear white clothes etc is entirely a sub-continental cultural thing. I doubt if it has anything to do with Islam, at all.
[/QUOTE]

Faisal Bhai,

Its easier said than done, forget about jumping into another marriage, or pregnancy, as an individual case my mother falls in neither of the categories, as a general observation, it is still not fair, my question again.

Why only women (Be they of any age).
Why not men??

I agree they cannot get pregnant, but guess who makes the women pregnant????

Is it ok to presume that men have the freedom to sow their seeds at will????

7

Faisal, you are right the Idat is mentioned in Quran it chapter 2 Aya 234 the reasons are clearly for going into another relationship, and there are clear rulings for women who are in non-child bearing (old) age.

2:234 "Such of you as die and leave behind them wives, they (the wives) shall wait, keeping themselves apart, four months and ten days. And when they reach the term (prescribed for them) then there is no sin for you in aught that they may do with themselves in decency. Allah is informed of what ye do."

Br Ejaz, all that you have mentioned has no bases in Islam. What your mother had to go through is sad, but this is what happens when we know little about our deen and then depend on culture, tradition and mullahs who know little about deen.

I am surprised that being muslims we ask to understand critical issues about our life without guidance from Ayaahs, and still try to follow Islam. That’s an oxymoron, it clearly shows why we are in such a bad shape.

May Allah guide us all.

8

Another aspect is there are 2 kinds of Iddah,

1- Iddah of Divorce

2- Iddah of Death.

now the worst part is if a woman is divorced by her husband she has to observe a 3 month period of Iddah!! and if God forbid her Husband passes away during her 3 month Iddah Period, then she has to return to her divorced and deceased husbands house and observe the additional 4 month 10 days and 10 nights Iddah of death.

Who wrote this rules???

it gets even worse,

If a woman is pregnant and her husband passes away, guess what she has to observe the Iddah period till she delivers the child!!!

now if the question is to determine the paternity of the child, then why this barbaric Iddah of 9 months????

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MiniMe: *
Faisal, you are right the Idat is mentioned in Quran it chapter 2 Aya 234 the reasons are clearly for going into another relationship, and there are clear rulings for women who are in non-child bearing (old) age.

2:234 "Such of you as die and leave behind them wives, they (the wives) shall wait, keeping themselves apart, four months and ten days. And when they reach the term (prescribed for them) then there is no sin for you in aught that they may do with themselves in decency. Allah is informed of what ye do."

Br Ejaz, all that you have mentioned has no bases in Islam. What your mother had to go through is sad, but this is what happens when we know little about our deen and then depend on culture, tradition and mullahs who know little about deen.

I am surprised that being muslims we ask to understand critical issues about our life without guidance from Ayaahs, and still try to follow Islam. That’s an oxymoron, it clearly shows why we are in such a bad shape.

May Allah guide us all.
[/QUOTE]

I do respect your views,

But you have to keep in mind I am not an Islamic scholar, hence who do I turn to in times of distress, believe me when my father passed away, we had to deal with cops (Coz all us 3 brothers were at work and my wife called 911 to revive my father), and then we had to jump thru hoops to obtain a death certificate, (coz we wanted to bury our father the same day he passed away) county clerk said it was too late and we had to wait till next day, we insisted no matter WHAT we had to bury him same day, we called in all the favours people owned us, eventually we got it all done, funeral home was a nightmare, wanted to charge us 4 times more as it was after hours, also the Burial staff was away we had to get them from their homes, we agreed to pay them whatever they asked provided our father was buried same day.

the point is did we even have time to ponder on the issues you mentioned, for that we turned to the local Mullah, and it was only our friends and well wishers who did the follow thru for us.

Seeing my mom in Iddah for the 4 month 10 day period has broken my heart, I could see her craving to speak to her daughters and grand kids in India, every single day, and I was helpless.

If was the local mullah, would I have percieved the rules other than what was told to me, I guess yes.

Hence the statement about ayaths and suras, and the logic.

10

Aejaz.

Passing away of a loved one is always a tragic event, and the family has to go through a lot of emotional stress in addition to the feeling of loss. The various issues you described were more an addition to the usual bereavement because you wanted to bury your father the same day and the red tape in such issues while living in the western countries. However, they have little to do with the actual question of iddah.

Many of the restrictions of iddah that you described are downright bizzare. I am not sure if the mullah you (or your friends and family) consulted insisted on these based on some evidence from Quran or sunnah, or were those passed on to him by others and he simply is passing them on to you without checking for their authenticity in Islam. But its clear that a lot of cultural/sub-continental rituals have seeped into, what is essentially, a common sense waiting period for women as prescribed in the Quran.

Stuff like not talking to your daughters or covering of windows seem more like following the form of the ruling and not caring for the substance. Post-menopausal women have even less to worry about. You should have consulted another scholar (or use many of the online scholarly websites) or asked on GS, and would have received a lot of useful information on, perhaps, a more timely basis. And Allah is surely the Most Gracious and Most Merciful.

11

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Aejaz.

Passing away of a loved one is always a tragic event, and the family has to go through a lot of emotional stress in addition to the feeling of loss. The various issues you described were more an addition to the usual bereavement because you wanted to bury your father the same day and the red tape in such issues while living in the western countries. However, they have little to do with the actual question of iddah.

Many of the restrictions of iddah that you described are downright bizzare. I am not sure if the mullah you (or your friends and family) consulted insisted on these based on some evidence from Quran or sunnah, or were those passed on to him by others and he simply is passing them on to you without checking for their authenticity in Islam. But its clear that a lot of cultural/sub-continental rituals have seeped into, what is essentially, a common sense waiting period for women as prescribed in the Quran.

Stuff like not talking to your daughters or covering of windows seem more like following the form of the ruling and not caring for the substance. Post-menopausal women have even less to worry about. You should have consulted another scholar (or use many of the online scholarly websites) or asked on GS, and would have received a lot of useful information on, perhaps, a more timely basis. And Allah is surely the Most Gracious and Most Merciful.
[/QUOTE]

Faisal Bhai,

I really do appreciate your time and patience with me, and you are right the points I made had nothing to do with Iddah, but that is exactly the point, we were so engrossed in the red tapism that we didnt have time to ponder on the issues that I have outlined.

You call the restrictions bizzare, I will go one step further and call them Cruel, but what could we have done, I was totally against this Iddah Business, but my mother thought it was indeed her duty to go thru it as it would help in reducing the Azaab of the Kabar for my father (as instructed by the so called mullah).

Rightly so my outcry is not about Iddah itself, but the rules/restrictions laid out by the learned Mullahs, and even if we followed their instructions for one day, one would feel like a sinner if they wanted to change stance the other day, which was exactly our position, having agreed in time of distress, we had to abide by the rules.

Faisal bhai where was the time to research or consult any body else, yeah maybe GS would have been a good option, but unfortunately I joined GS only in March 2004.

Anyways the issue is debateable, coming back to the original issue, is Iddah really necessary for women of any age??

We use science in so many ways in modern life, can it not also be used to determine the paternity issue, and like you mentioned would it not be easier to exempt Post-menopausal from this ritual.

regards,

Aejaz

12

do you question Allah's command or do u question the extra bits of unIslamic additions by the local mullah????

u shud have gone to a mufti....
one of the biggest mistakes that ppl make is that they go to the local mosque's imam or muazin and ask them about the shariah rulings....
most of them (perhpas 99%) dont have any knowledge about the fiqah....
u shud always go to a mufti, a faqeeh who is learned enuff to give u the proper advice....

iddat is not barbaric as i see it....
just more protection for the women....
and if a woman has to work (in case no male relative supports her) she is free to go out to her job....
if she has no one to bering her food, she may well go for the shopping....

Islam never said that u have to chain the woman up in her house for that period....
and if u went to someone less knowledgable, guess whose fault it is....

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aejaz: *

I do respect your views,

But you have to keep in mind I am not an Islamic scholar, hence who do I turn to in times of distress, believe me when my father passed away, we had to deal with cops (Coz all us 3 brothers were at work and my wife called 911 to revive my father), and then we had to jump thru hoops to obtain a death certificate, (coz we wanted to bury our father the same day he passed away) county clerk said it was too late and we had to wait till next day, we insisted no matter WHAT we had to bury him same day, we called in all the favours people owned us, eventually we got it all done, funeral home was a nightmare, wanted to charge us 4 times more as it was after hours, also the Burial staff was away we had to get them from their homes, we agreed to pay them whatever they asked provided our father was buried same day.

the point is did we even have time to ponder on the issues you mentioned, for that we turned to the local Mullah, and it was only our friends and well wishers who did the follow thru for us.

Seeing my mom in Iddah for the 4 month 10 day period has broken my heart, I could see her craving to speak to her daughters and grand kids in India, every single day, and I was helpless.

If was the local mullah, would I have percieved the rules other than what was told to me, I guess yes.

Hence the statement about ayaths and suras, and the logic.
[/QUOTE]

What burial staff are you talking about.

14

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aejaz: *

Faisal Bhai,

Its easier said than done, forget about jumping into another marriage, or pregnancy, as an individual case my mother falls in neither of the categories, as a general observation, it is still not fair, my question again.

Why only women (Be they of any age).
Why not men??

I agree they cannot get pregnant, but guess who makes the women pregnant????

Is it ok to presume that men have the freedom to sow their seeds at will????
[/QUOTE]

you can ask this question from Allah(SWT)

15

Im not sure if Iddat is applicable to women who have already had menopause. Its only applicable if the widow hasnt had menopause yet, and has the ability to get pregnant.
At age 70, your mother has almost certainly passed the menopausal stage, and hence shouldnt be subjected to iddat (which I believe simply prohibits marriage during this time). All the adjoining stuff, i-e, not talking to anyone on the phone etc is subcontinental paranoia stuff.
I was in a different country when my father passed away, and I spent the next 4 months and 10 days talking to my mother on the phone.

16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
do you question Allah's command or do u question the extra bits of unIslamic additions by the local mullah????

u shud have gone to a mufti....
one of the biggest mistakes that ppl make is that they go to the local mosque's imam or muazin and ask them about the shariah rulings....
most of them (perhpas 99%) dont have any knowledge about the fiqah....
u shud always go to a mufti, a faqeeh who is learned enuff to give u the proper advice....

iddat is not barbaric as i see it....
just more protection for the women....
and if a woman has to work (in case no male relative supports her) she is free to go out to her job....
if she has no one to bering her food, she may well go for the shopping....

Islam never said that u have to chain the woman up in her house for that period....
and if u went to someone less knowledgable, guess whose fault it is....
[/QUOTE]

Now in retrospect, and with all the learned folks putting in their 2cents, looks like we were certainly mislead, but like I said in my first post, I never thought about Iddah, until my mother had to endure it.

Hence some blame does lie with me!! no doubt about it, God forbid anyone else, faces the same situation, maybe this discussion will give them a better knowledge about Iddah.

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *

What burial staff are you talking about.
[/QUOTE]

The Machine operators who dig the Grave.

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Akif: *
Im not sure if Iddat is applicable to women who have already had menopause. Its only applicable if the widow hasnt had menopause yet, and has the ability to get pregnant.
At age 70, your mother has almost certainly passed the menopausal stage, and hence shouldnt be subjected to iddat (which I believe simply prohibits marriage during this time). All the adjoining stuff, i-e, not talking to anyone on the phone etc is subcontinental paranoia stuff.
I was in a different country when my father passed away, and I spent the next 4 months and 10 days talking to my mother on the phone.
[/QUOTE]

It was unfortunate that my mother had to endure this hardship, just wish people are aware of this issues, and not be ignorant like me, if I had all this Info earlier, I could have avoided the pain and Torture that my mother had to go thru.

19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *

you can ask this question from Allah(SWT)
[/QUOTE]

I still think its a valid question!!!

20

Thanks to everyone who viewed this thread, and special thanks to the Kind folks who took their time to impart their knowledge with me, and others.

regards

Aejaz