Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
Actually I have been trying to find stories of Sahaba converting to Islam but I can't find details about their testimonials. There are hadith though, which talk about Shahada however I cannot find in Quran (so far) a verse that talks about five pillars of Islam. This is something I have only found in hadith thus far and they are from reliable narrators.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
the word sahaba is not mention in quran.U can find the zikar of 1 sahaba in quran who was Hazarat zaid.He was Muhammad (pbuh) ghulam Muhammad (pbuh)him consider him as like his son.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
Yes I know. He was Prophet Muhammad SAW adopted son. Quran is not a dictionary of Arabic though.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
Ask yourself this: The 6 kalmays, as they are called, what are their origins? Are they in the Quran? Sunnah? Hadith? Do they come from Sahabi, Tabieen, Tabatabieen or even the Salaf?
Answer is none of the above...There is no proof of the kalmays being any part of Islam...
I have pondered about that at times however the golden question is how do you testify to becoming a muslim? What is it that you need to affirm that makes you a muslim, I do not believe affirming there is no God but Allah SWT makes you a muslim completely. There are certain other Christian denominations that might testify that there is no God other than God as well however you would not count them as muslim. So from a logical point of view is the testimony of tauheed enough to make you a muslim.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
USR even i will try to search for some of them, If possible coz we have to remember the Adhan and the Tashahud are so important. That means to say, every one is innovated including the Sahaba. nauzbillaah.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
there are no records.. the earliest reliable hard evidence could be coinage.. and they didn't appear till around 700AD .. too late IMO to get any reasonable idea from them about what the earlier caliphs/muslims used as a proclamation..
It's worth mentioning though that these early coins too didn't have the current 'proclamation of faith' as used today.. they too relied heavily on a variant of la ilaha il Allah vahdahu la shareeka lahu.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
I feel, to take such a bold step and follow until today then we have to see to that, was there no pious predecessor and no one reliant to say the same shahadah as been told today.
I feel this requires good study on the Hadith, coz saying a shahada if it has been told since 1400 years why is that people are doubting this very important declaration of Shahada.
Either for 1400 years all of them were hypocrites all the Muslims and have innovated that we have to come up wiht this thought today or believe in what has been going on for 1400years.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
Either for 1400 years all of them were hypocrites all the Muslims and have innovated that we have to come up wiht this thought today or believe in what has been going on for 1400years.
You know in one of the threads here (can't remember, which one) Ma Mooli made a point about some information being important enough that it is transmitted from generation to generation. This is one that seems to fit the glove. For instance, people always tell munkir-e-hadith how they learned to pray and the reality is that it is generational knowledge and I can hardly find anyone who would say he learned to pray using the ahadith books. They can say they refined their prayer by studying hadith or discovered that there are variations however none can claim that is how they learnt it. Lets say for instance, people prayed during the time between the compilation of hadith books. So how did those people learn to pray, obviously they were taught by others or elders though the Quran does not spell out how to pray. To me the Shahada falls into this same category. And later on it got recorded in the collections of hadith.
You may also think this as a disturbing trend that we want to verify such knowledge with nothing but the Quran and disregard generations of transmission of knowledge. This also demonstrates how we are using Quran to our own pitfall as well whereas we may think we are trying look for guidance. Very thinline to walk.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
What about surahs that say Obey Allah AND Obey the messenger?
Can you obey just one and still be a Muslim? Can you declare just one and still become muslim? If that is the case, then Christians believe there is no God but one God.... so does Jews, are they Muslims? Why is it that when you say There is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger then you are considered a Muslim? Since, Prophet Mohammad is the LAST prophet of God, his authority, book revealed on him takes precedence over everything that passed before him... so it is important to declare your loyality to the authority that you are following. Anybody can claim to follow God, but on whose authority? Muslims follow God but on authority of Quran which was revealed on Prophet Mohammad....
They don't say, obey Allah and obey the messenger if you want to... optional choice.
What did people say when they would become Muslims in front of the prophet? Did the Prophet approve or disapprove of that? If he never disapproved of the whole shahada/kalima (which was being said in front of him/to him/for him), who are we to question it?
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
مُّحَمَّدٌ رَّسُولُ اللَّهِ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاء عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاء بَيْنَهُمْ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِم مِّنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ذَلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الْإِنجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَى عَلَى سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنْهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا
Muhammadun rasoolu Allahi wa*allatheena maAAahu ashiddao AAala alkuffari ruhamao baynahum tarahum rukkaAAan sujjadan yabtaghoona fadlan mina Allahi waridwanan seemahum fee wujoohihim min athari alssujoodi thalika mathaluhum fee alttawrati wamathaluhum fee alinjeeli kazarAAin akhraja shatahu faazarahu faistaghla*th*a faistawa AAala sooqihi yuAAjibu alzzurraAAa liyaghee*th*a bihimu alkuffara waAAada Allahu allatheena amanoo waAAamiloo alssalihati minhum maghfiratan waajran AAa*th*eeman*
48:29 Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.
"Muhammad ur Rasool Allah" in the Quran.
R U trying to somehow lower the Status of Muhammad (PBUH)?
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
Very well said Jaan Leva and welcome back. :k:
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
Can you obey just one and still be a Muslim? Can you declare just one and still become muslim? If that is the case, then Christians believe there is no God but one God.... so does Jews, are they Muslims? Why is it that when you say There is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger then you are considered a Muslim? Since, Prophet Mohammad is the LAST prophet of God, his authority, book revealed on him takes precedence over everything that passed before him... so it is important to declare your loyality to the authority that you are following. Anybody can claim to follow God, but on whose authority? Muslims follow God but on authority of Quran which was revealed on Prophet Mohammad....
They don't say, obey Allah and obey the messenger if you want to... optional choice.
What did people say when they would become Muslims in front of the prophet? Did the Prophet approve or disapprove of that? If he never disapproved of the whole shahada/kalima (which was being said in front of him/to him/for him), who are we to question it?
I don't think anyone is trying to understand the point being made here. First it is not to reject hadith in anyway. Second no one is denying the messengership of Muhammad SAW and no one is saying that Muhammad SAW is equal to Allah SWT (Aaodhubillah).
When someone converts to a muslim he has to perform the ritual of taking Shahada i.e. saying the testimony of faith, which is mentioned in the hadith books. The Shahada as it is said today is not mentioned in the Quran. Only the first part of the Shahada as it is mentioned today is to be found in the Quran. The exact sentence following the witnessing of Muhammad SAW as Allah SWT apostle cannot be directly quoted from the Quran. Yes there are countless references to obey Allah SWT and obey the messenger SAW.
Now the question being asked is that was there a ritual practice of stating the Shahada (same sentence as it is said today) back in the Prophet SAW time. If I ask a person willing to convert to Islam that Do you testify that there is no god other than Allah SWT and Muhammad SAW is his messenger and in reply he simply says YES, does that constitute as a Shahada, does that fullfil the requirement here. Again professing anything by the tongue has no value if it is not followed upon e.g. if a person says he is muslim without pronouncing it publicly by stating the Shahada is he not muslim then? Belief in Allah SWT and Muhammad SAW is really in the heart not by professing it on the tongue. Is the ritual of proclaiming Shahada really meant to introduce the person to the public community as one entering the fold of Islam?
What is the religious significance (meaning in the eyes of Allah SWT) of not proclaiming Shahada publicly? And yet believing.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
I don't understand. What is the basis/point of questioning today's shahada when its the same shahada that people proclaimed IN FRONT OF the prophet and he never disapproved of it? Since its not in the quran, are we suppose to disown particular action/dislike/like that prophet had as the sunnah rejectors would have us do?
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
No one (at least I am not) is disowning it. Just to find out the history behind it. As you mentioned the same Shahada people proclaimed in front of Prophet SAW, can you refer me to such accounts of any one famous i.e. Ali, Omar, Uthman or Abu Bakr .. RA(S)? When we say it is a pillar of faith, what is meant by it. If not done then you are not a muslim or what?
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
Mr Cow, when was the last time you cracked open a quran. Before you try to get personal with me, you may want to check what you are up against.
Here is a simple answer. Please read it and ponder upon the meaning of these verses. Trust me Allah will open the closed mind of yours and the person who started this thread.
049.002 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لا تَرْفَعُوا أَصْوَاتَكُمْ فَوْقَ صَوْتِ النَّبِيِّ وَلا تَجْهَرُوا لَهُ بِالْقَوْلِ كَجَهْرِ بَعْضِكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ أَنْ تَحْبَطَ أَعْمَالُكُمْ وَأَنْتُمْ لا تَشْعُرُونَ
049.002 O ye who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as ye may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and ye perceive not.
049.003 إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَغُضُّونَ أَصْوَاتَهُمْ عِنْدَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ امْتَحَنَ اللَّهُ قُلُوبَهُمْ لِلتَّقْوَى لَهُمْ مَغْفِرَةٌ وَأَجْرٌ عَظِيمٌ
049.003 Those that lower their voices in the presence of Allah's Messenger,- their hearts has Allah tested for piety: for them is Forgiveness and a great Reward.
Al-Qur'an, 049.002-003 (Al-Hujraat [The Private Apartments, The Inner Apartments])
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
I don’t understand why there is a need to find out if today’s shahada is the same as of 1400 years ago. Just because you see Mohammad :saw: name by Allah’s name you are raising your eyebrows? Before you do that think of what Allah :swt: says about His messenger specially about Mohammad :saw:, think of the high status given to Mohammad :saw: over all the other prophets. If what ever pleases Allah :swt: be it who are we to question?
I think this is how shatan plays with our mind and as Allah :swt: said that there are some things for which you can not get an answer so its better not to ask.
The time is near when people will start questioning about Quran being orignal or not. I am not blaming anyone but just stating what really makes one to go and ask these kinda questions where you can simply ignore it and spend the same time on reciting the Quran or reading the tafseer of Quran.
This is a “wus wasa” (spelling) that shaitan puts in our mind to derail us from the right path. Allah :swt: knows best and may Allah :swt: give us the guidance to the right path.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
I can't refer to you as I don't have the books handy... and searching online isn't helpful. Since, I can't get the info, maybe you can tell us which shahada they said and what was Prophet's reaction?
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
I am with USR on this topic coz no one is ignoring the PRophet, ignoreing the Prophet is equivalent to ignoring the Quran and hence I am out of the fold of Islam.
I am with teaser for the first two paragraphs, the last i have different view of it. Well, the only point putting across this stuff is to find authenticity in the Shahada.
Because, I can remember of some evidence such as Pledge in Aqaba from the Ansars, this is one of them. But the only evidence i find for the Shahada and the most necessary is Adhan were we declare the Shahada and then Tashahud.
But my point is clear, can we find the Shahda in one line in the Quran.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
Here is a simple answer. Please read it and ponder upon the meaning of these verses. Trust me Allah will open the closed mind of yours and the person who started this thread.
049.002 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لا تَرْفَعُوا أَصْوَاتَكُمْ فَوْقَ صَوْتِ النَّبِيِّ وَلا تَجْهَرُوا لَهُ بِالْقَوْلِ كَجَهْرِ بَعْضِكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ أَنْ تَحْبَطَ أَعْمَالُكُمْ وَأَنْتُمْ لا تَشْعُرُونَ 049.002 O ye who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as ye may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and ye perceive not.
049.003 إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَغُضُّونَ أَصْوَاتَهُمْ عِنْدَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ امْتَحَنَ اللَّهُ قُلُوبَهُمْ لِلتَّقْوَى لَهُمْ مَغْفِرَةٌ وَأَجْرٌ عَظِيمٌ 049.003 Those that lower their voices in the presence of Allah's Messenger,- their hearts has Allah tested for piety: for them is Forgiveness and a great Reward.
Al-Qur'an, 049.002-003 (Al-Hujraat [The Private Apartments, The Inner Apartments])
People who have little to show often brag about it a lot. The verses are irreelvant to what I am trying to get it. This verse is relevant for the companions of the Prophet SAW and for us today, it is relevant in terms of his persona.
Re: I will say only La ilaha Il lalaah.
For all I know, I can find the Shahada in the ahadith and thats it. How the call to prayer (Adhan) originated can be found in the ahadith however how the testimony of faith originated (atleast I have not come across it yet) is not known however what it is, can clearly be found in ahadith.