I was talking to a Sikh today who tried to be friendly with me. I could not believe it when he told me that their Guru Nanak had been on a Hajj. I told him that it can not be true, because one has to accept Islam first before they are allowed to enter Makka. He insisted that it was true and was registered in history books and then started to ask me why are’nt the non muslims allowed to enter Makka. He told me that every body is allowed in their Golden temple and all the other gurdaras regardless of religion. I told him that sikh religion was a man made religion and Islam is based directly on the message Allah sent to us through his prophet (pbuh). He did not like what I told him and said nothing more.
I seriously doubt it that Guru Nanak went to Mecca on Hajj. Bear it in mind that Sikhs use a lot of islamic terminology to define things in sikhism....like the use of term 'rab'. I wouldnt be surprised if he was referring to the pilgrimage they make to nankana sahib, which i have also heard of as being referred to as Hajj.
One has to accept Islam before going to Hajj, it doesn't mean that for a non-muslim it is impossible to go to Hajj. If a Sikh or a hindu or any non-Muslim simply say, they are muslim and recite the kalima, they can get in. How are we muslims suppose to know they are not muslim?, we have to accept it if someone calls themself muslim. It just tells me that if any non-muslim did go to Hajj, they must have been lying. Now I don't know about Guru Nanak, but anyone who has to lie about their faith to go anywhere, it just tells me they have no respect or faith in their own religion to begin with. If they did, they would not be dishonest or hide anything to anyone especially regarding their religion. They would be proud of it if they had faith in it.
Salaam
[This message has been edited by STRONGMAN (edited September 27, 2000).]
He didnt had to lie to go to Makah. In the mid of 1500 century if u where just dressed like a musilm you would have entered the mosque. There are several historians who say that before preaching his new religion he practice Islam.
I think the restriction on non muslims to enter the holy sites is not religius in nature but based on security reasons.
It’s not right or wrong
Its different ...and
Different is hard to admit.
tauba tauba,
Its not a nice way to refute others beliefs and it was natural for him to get annoyed. Its the same thing as some non-muslims say something about Islam and we get annoyed . Best way is to say that u dont agree with his faith.
The system of Guru Nanak and his followers, as well as its literature and traditions, show that it owes its origin to the reformation of Hinduism under Islamic influence. Its founder, Guru Nanak, was deeply attracted by Islamic teachings. He learnt Persian and Sufi doctrines from Syed Hasan Shah. He is also reported to have been closely associated with six other Muslim mystics of his time. He is stated as having performed Hajj and spent some of his time in Baghdad.
Guru Nanak called upon his followers to worship Alakh Niranjan— the True, the Immortal, the Self-existent, the Invisible, the Pure One God, to treat all human beings as equals and to renounce idols and incarnations.
Its the greatness of Islam that it changed faith of Hindus and culture of sub-continent. In the next step millions of sikhs converted to Islam later on.
Ironically none og the mughal emperors performed Hajj!
Just a humble comment ppl..............It is told to me that Guru Nank was muslim. Although Sikh never admitted but I seen video showing his Chowla (dress) and there were Isma-e-Bari (99 names of God) and Quranic Iyates were printed.
This explains why he made Hajj.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
Salam friends.
I have discussed on this issue at large, unfortunately couldn’t continue due to lack of some serious inputs. If there is anyone interested I may resume the debate.
According to my personal research (and beliefs) he was a pious Muslim sage. Though he was born in a Hindu family but Allah blessed him with his bounties. He became a Sufi. Reviewing his teaching deeply reveals remarkable similarities between his teachings and basic Islamic fundamentals.
Unfortunately, almost all Muslims very fanatical point him as a Hindu seed, while his actual followers call him a founder of an independent religion. Hindus somehow are also unable to accept him. Yet all three groups are empty at hands.
This interesting topic can be read at:
** http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/000849.html **
** the CHOLA of Baba Nanak and the Quranic Verses ! **
There I have also placed a link of some images of the dress which Nanak jee use to wore, as a proof that he was a Muslim. (as pointed out by insaniyut). Just have a look by yourself.
http://zalim.homepage.com/chola_nanak.jpg
(please copy and paste the link in new browser window)
These pictures which were taken by close friends clearly reveals the verses from the Holy Quran. Thus showing his affection and inclination towards Islam.
Later in the debate I also tried to put more evidences and quotes from authentic resources. And I still have more to share.
In a nutshell I consider him as a Muslim cause,
· He use to pray 5 times a day. (“Five times he prays, he read the book of Quran –p37”)
· He recites Quran which he use to carry in a satchel.
· There is also a tradition in Janam Sakti that he preformed pilgrimage to Mecca.
· His first Murshid (spiritual teacher) was a Muslim. (Sheikh Farid ra)
· In Nanak we see reflection of Muslim FAQIRS (not of Hindu SÁDHUS)
· His cloak inscribed with Quranic verses is a true witness.
· His own words speaks of himself “I am thankful to God of Glorious Throne that I am a Momin”
I am not forcing anyone to believe in me. The decision rests on you.
wa’salam.
I actually thought that the sardar ji was telling a lot of rubbish when he told me that their Guru Nanak did the hajj but after reading some responses on this thread, it appears to me that he must have been there. But I'm sure that he must have been a muslim to have been allowed entery in Makka as the kaffirs are not allowed in there.
What I could'nt understand though is, why did the sardar ji went all quite when I told him the fact that their religion is a man made religion and Islam is based on the word of Allah (swt) delievered to the man kind through the holy prophet Mohammed (pbuh).
Surely all the sikhs must know that their religion is a man made religion and they must also know that in the end Islam is the only way as this is what Allah wanted when he called upon Mohammed (pbuh) to deliever his message to the mankind.
You were given an opportunity today to show the merits of Islam to a non-believer.... and what did you do? You insulted him, made him feel small and gloated to all and sundry!
Maybe Guru Nanak had visited Makka 300 years ago....I'm sure security was not as tight as now...simply being dressed like a Muslim may have been sufficient to bypass the gazes.
Why jump down peoples' throats and proclaim Islam is better than their religion?
It's not going to make them appreciate anything else on the subject once you have sidelined their beliefs.
I have actually managed to change a lot of peoples opinions of Islam merely by pointing out the similarities that we all share and then going into the finer points. Thus, by not being insulted, they are more open to new ideas!
End of Sermon.
What people have to realise is that Allah (swt) has given us the internet technology, so that his message can reach every person on the planet as soon as possible. It is the will of Allah that the message he sent to the mankind through Mohammed (pbuh) must be followed by the whole human race. What has not been possible for 1400 years, now looks achievable within a couple of decades. We must all do our best to spread the word that Islam is the only way forward and that there is no place in this world for the kaffirs.
[quote]
Originally posted by tauba tauba:
*What people have to realise is that Allah (swt) has given us the internet technology, *
[/quote]
and Al Gore claims that he gave internet technology, gosh! i am confused. i think it was zia-ul-haq who gave internet technology.
What else can you expect from these Americans. All they can do is lie through their teeth. He will pay for his deeds.
Internet has been given to the mankind directly by Allah (swt) Himself. As it was taking far too long for his message to get accross He had to do something about it.
There was no way He could send another prophet as He had already sent Mohammed (pbuh) as His last messanger, so to spread the word the internet has been given to us. Don't believe a word of what Al gore says, he is a kaffir and Allah (swt) will make him pay for his deeds.
[quote]
Originally posted by tauba tauba:
**Internet has been given to the mankind directly by Allah (swt) Himself. As it was taking far too long for his message to get accross He had to do something about it.
There was no way He could send another prophet as He had already sent Mohammed (pbuh) as His last messanger, so to spread the word the internet has been given to us. Don't believe a word of what Al gore says, he is a kaffir and Allah (swt) will make him pay for his deeds.**
[/quote]
Woho, what an interesting new member, welcome sir jee.
Would you mind backing this with proves etc. No not about Allah swt and the net, I’m interested in your theory, what kinda interesting knowledge or research do you use to back this claim haiN- About mgs taking too long and not being able to send a new prophet? In other words Allah swt is using Internet to spread his words haiN?
Pata hai, If I ever tried to make joke about any religion I try a lil harder, after all mera bhi to test hota na.
[quote]
Originally posted by AnokhaUK:
**You were given an opportunity today to show the merits of Islam to a non-believer.... and what did you do? You insulted him, made him feel small and gloated to all and sundry!
Maybe Guru Nanak had visited Makka 300 years ago....I'm sure security was not as tight as now...simply being dressed like a Muslim may have been sufficient to bypass the gazes.
Why jump down peoples' throats and proclaim Islam is better than their religion?
It's not going to make them appreciate anything else on the subject once you have sidelined their beliefs.
I have actually managed to change a lot of peoples opinions of Islam merely by pointing out the similarities that we all share and then going into the finer points. Thus, by not being insulted, they are more open to new ideas!
End of Sermon.**
[/quote]
Calm down with your sermon. Tauba didn't insult anyone, read his post, he just said the truth about what is man-made and what was revealed directly by Allah to his messengers and his final messenger (PBUH). Truth is still truth. In the Quran it is also revealed that every human on earth will eventually recognize Islam as the truth like a father recognizes his son (ALLAH is most just! its one of his 99 names), AND STILL some will not accept ISLAM and will remain Kafir. Sikhs themselves know their religion is man made. They never proclaimed Guru Nanak or any other Guru were sent by God, or were prophets, not even the Gurus themself proclaimed that. They were merely 'holy men' preaching good deeds.
You are right, there are islamic etiquettes
and politeness but Tauba didn't "insult" him or "jump down his throat" or proclaim "islam is better than their religion" read the post again.
Salaam
[This message has been edited by STRONGMAN (edited September 28, 2000).]
Proof? well is'nt it proof enough that I'm here in Agra and you are probably in New York or Tronto or London and we can respond to each other within a matter of minutes. Do you think that we could have had this sort of technology had it not been for the will of Allah (swt)? The main reason that He has gifted this technology to us is so that we use it to spread the word of Allah (swt). Thank you.
Strongman
Thank you for your understanding. I just can't understand what these people are afraid of.
All I know is that one day everybody in this world will be a muslim and sooner it happens the better. I'm not making it up out of thin air but says it very clearly in our holy Quran. You should be prepared to live and die for Islam as the only way forward is Islam.
Sabah
---------------------------------------------Pata hai, If I ever tried to make joke about any religion I try a lil harder, after all mera bhi to test hota na.
I think you have misunderstood me. You may like making jokes about a religion but I don't. Whatever I said to sardar ji, about Islam and his sikh religion was not a joke but a hard fact. If he did'nt like the truth then it's tough for him.
[quote]
Originally posted by AnokhaUK:
**You were given an opportunity today to show the merits of Islam to a non-believer.... and what did you do? You insulted him, made him feel small and gloated to all and sundry!
Maybe Guru Nanak had visited Makka 300 years ago....I'm sure security was not as tight as now...simply being dressed like a Muslim may have been sufficient to bypass the gazes.
Why jump down peoples' throats and proclaim Islam is better than their religion?
It's not going to make them appreciate anything else on the subject once you have sidelined their beliefs.
I have actually managed to change a lot of peoples opinions of Islam merely by pointing out the similarities that we all share and then going into the finer points. Thus, by not being insulted, they are more open to new ideas!
End of Sermon.**
[/quote]
Anokha,Whereas,i agree with your softspoken diplomatic approach,Tauba Tauba seems to be a younger person(i guess)with enthusiasm,& 'gung ho ' approach.We like both type in our dawa,each bringing his unique approach. Whereas Tauba X2 can turn off the weak with "STrongman'atttude,for not everybody is mature to face truth,the more seasoned experience can temper the intelligence & wit with wisdom.
The mistake of the youth is that they think intelligence is a substitute of experience & that of the old to think experience is the substitute of intelligence.
Lets both LEARN from each other.
Munna, ur statement on experience and intelligence is quite insightful. But did u see any sign of either of them in 'tauba tauba'? in case u did, i would like to let u know that everyone else missed it.