I think it is nothing else but narrow mindedness to talk about Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji in such a derogatory way. Sikhs may express their opinions about muslim people but they don't say anything disrespectfull about Hazrat Mohammed Sahib, so I can't see why you have to disrespect our holy Guru Sahiban.
As far as Baba Nanak being a muslim, all I know is that he treated people of all faiths on equal terms and respect. He went every where with his two companions, Bhai Bala a hindu and Mardana a muslim. He did the pilgrimage to Makka and also Baghdad and also did the pilgrimage to Kashi, Benaras and Hardwar etc. He did not mind offering his prayers to his creator be it in a masjid or in a mandir. In fact he was the one who had said,"Na koi Hindu, Na Musalman, sabh Khudah de bandey."
As far as Islam being the religion of Allah and Sikh religion a man made religion. I have no intention of offending anyone but if you were to look at every religion in the world almost all of them have been founded by humans with inspiration from God.
So, I can not see any differance in God inspiring Hazrat Mohammed sahib and he founded Islam and God also inspired Guru Nanak Sahib to spread His word and Sikh religion came into being.
You can keep arguing and keep fighting round the clock trying to prove that Islam is the religion given to man directly by Allah and also that Prophet Mohammed Sahib was the last prophet and Sikh religion is only man made. As far as we Sikhs are concerned, Guru Nanak Dev ji was inspired to deliver God's message to the mankind and all his followers, hindus as well as muslim, came to be known as Sikhs. In the eyes of the Sikhs Guru Nanak Dev ji is as great a prophet of God as is Hazrat Mohammed Sahib.
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Originally posted by hk:
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Well.....why do u bother??????
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Because somehow, someway, we feel that possibly maybe even just one of you might become a little less close-minded, and realize how every tradition on the South Asian subcontinent contributes the great milieu of our society.
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Originally posted by Banta Singh:
**I have posted the last message but I also know that I have probably just wasted my time writing it.
When I read some of the messages on these gup shupp pages, they are so full of hatred towards non muslims, I some times ask myself, why bother ?
Waheguru sarbat da bhala kaare.**
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Banta Singh , Thing is everyone has right to think and express there views. If you look at the posts on this page no one has said anything to insult Guru Baba Nank. However some people have strong beliefs and they have every right to do this , just like sikh's.
I have came across most abscure comments made by hindus and sikh's about Islam and Muslims. Why dont you go and tell them to stop the hatered comments and posts?? if you cant stop them then you should not try stoping other peoples.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
If everyone had the same attitude that you do would anyone every correct themselves?
If everyone said, "Go and tell them to stop first!", would we have any progress in this world?
Instead of looking at everyone else's shortcomings and using them as a justification to commit the same crime...why can't we just look at ourselves and stop ourselves first?
First of all, I shall seek courage from the merciful Waheguru to give me strength to present the truth as per all His grace that He is going to shower upon me while responding to these posts.
Then, I shall like to correct you where you say their Guru Nanak. Guru Nanak, is the messenger of God just like Prophet Hazrat Mohammed Sahib. Guru Nanak says in Raga Tilang (Sri Guru Granth Sahib - 722)
ਜੈਸੀ ਮੈ ਆਵੇ ਖਸਮ ਕੀ ਬਾਨੀ ਤੈਸੜਾ ਕਰੀ ਿਗਆਨ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ
Jaisi Meh Aavey Khasam Ki Baani Taisra Kari Gyaan Ve Laalo.
(As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo.)
Messengers do not belong to one community, and those who believe so do not understand the very messenger.
Hats off on the double standards of yours when you say that sikh religion was a man made religion and Islam is based directly on the message Allah sent to us through his prophet. Guru Sahib says -
ਆਿਗਆ ਭਈ ਅਕਾਲ ਕੀ ਤਬੇ ਚਲਾਇਓ ਪੰਥ
ਸਬ ਿਸਖਨ ਕੋ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੈ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਾਿਨਓ ਗਰੰਥ
Aagya Bhai Akaal Ki Tabe Chalaayo Panth
Sab Sikkhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Maanyo Granth.
(It was by the order of Lord Himself that the new Panth of Gurmat was fashioned. All Sikhs are ordered to believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as their Guru.)
When Gabriel brought the message of Allah to Mohd. Sahib, his wife Beghum Khadija (sorry, if I misspelled the name) said these words can not be of Mohd. Sahib. At this Mohd. Sahib had replied that it was true, he had been silent, and now Allah was speaking through him.
I believe in this story cent percent just like I believe those related to Guru Sahibaan, but your rejection to believe Guru Sahib’s being His messenger shows your irrationality. One should have a general sense to respect the prophets, and to men of god.
Guru Sahib had not visited Makka out of curiosity, nor because he followed Islam. It was rather because he wanted all humans to improve upon themselves and leave false practices. The first word that he uttered after realization was - ‘Na Ko Hindu Na Musalmaan’ that means there was no Hindu no Musalmaan. Allah has no religion. He loves all irrespective of our colour and creed.
Lol… Ignorance makes us think that we own a language. Of course, a prophet speaks in a language which is prevelant in that particular area. That made Mohd. Sahib speak in Arabic. And, there is no concept of Hajj in Sikhi. To us going to a place related to Guru sahibaan is to relate ourselves with our history and it changes the mindset of a man when one experiences a feeling of love and devotion toward the Guru at a place where the shabads of the Guru were first heard. Why only ‘rab’, there are words like Khasam, Parmatama, Allah, Parmanand, Ram, Gopal, Gobind, Beethal, and n number of Waheguru’s name used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Guru sahibaan have addressed Waheguru ji with different names based on His attributes. If Guru sahib is relating humans as Jeev-Istri, he calls Wahguru ji Khasam, when he wants to address the Allah for giving everything for growth of everyone and everything on earth, he calls Waheguru ji Gopal (he who looks after the all universes). And Lol… :), Nankana Sahib is the place where Guru Sahib was born. Are you saying that Guru Sahib went to A PILGRIMAGE TO HIS BIRTHPLACE???
Guru Sahib accompanied Bhai Sahib Mardana ji to Qaaba. And if you can imagine that Prophet Mohammed Sahib would have told a lie for entering a place, then I am not surprised on your saying ‘they must have been lying’ about Guru Sahib. And, Guru Sahib did not go to Mecca for the reason you guys go. He went there to stop you guys from believing in purity of a particular place over every other place. Sain Miyan Mir, a Muslim saint and a renowned Fakir had started reading Namaaz in the direction of Harmandir Sahib in Sri Amritsar instead of towards West. Only one out of crores is trader of truth, all others just stay in Khushfehmi of being believers. Guru Sahib had a courage to call a spade a spade when he names Baabar as Jaabar and when he says, “Raaje Sheeh Mukaddam Kutte”.
Lol… a new thing to me! About Islam, Guru Sahib says -
ਿਮਹਰ ਮਸੀਿਤ ਿਸਦਕੁ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ
ਸਰਮ ਸੁੰਨਿਤ ਸੀਲੁ ਰੋਜਾ ਹੋਹੁ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣ
ੁMehar Maseet Sidak Haq Halaal Kuraan. Saram Sunnat Seel Roja Hoho Musalmaan.
(Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran. Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.)
Guru ji is the sarabkalasampooran human being who told not others to convert to his path but to follow one’s own path with all devotion and truth without attaching oneself to meaningless rituals.
Guru sahib clearly says -
ਨਾ ਹਮ ਿਹੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ
ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਿਪੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ
Na Hum Hindu Na Musalmaan, Allah Raam Ke Pind Praan.
(I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both.)
It was not greatness of Islam by the way that converted maximum of Hindus into Islam, but was fear of Mughal sword, and of death to which coward Hindus succumbed. But when Guru Sahib showed a way to all the downtrodden people when he said -
ਜਉ ਤਉ ਪਰੇਮ ਖੇਲਣ ਕਾ ਚਾਉ
ਿਸਰੁ ਧਿਰ ਤਲੀ ਗਲੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਉ
Jo Tau Prem Khelan Ka Chaao, Sir Dhar Tali Gali Meri Aao.
(If you desire to play this game of love with Me, then step onto My Path with your head in hand.)
Lol… You have chosen a name Insaaniat.
Have you seen a video of Guru Nanak himself? Which company had invented the video cameras in 15th century, I am keen to know? Guru sahib’s pictures are imagination of various painters, Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs. And also, Sikhs do not believe in pictures/idols. Body is not our Guru. Our Guru is Shabad, the eternal Naad.
Brother, my fellow-being, instead of proving such false things, just prove yourself to the Allah that you are a true Muslim. Guru Granth Sahib tells enough of Guru Sahib to those who want to learn. A Sikh according to Guru Nanak is the one who is constant learner of the true path. Now this true path can not be shown to anyone except by the True Guru. The True Guru is Sri Guru Granth Sahib as all the baani/shabads in it are written by the Messenger of God himself. Quraan is not written by Mohd. Sahib. It was written much later than the actual time when Mohd. Sahib received the message from God. Who knows what unauthentic things are added for personal gains of those who wrote it? Similarly, the contents of Bible have also been modified more than twice, and it was not written by the Christ. Geeta was also not written by Krishna. Vedas have no origin known. Ramayana and Mahabharata are known to be myths. It is not a matter of winning or losing. It is a matter of soul, and this is the chance that we have gained to come out of the birth-cycle. Logically, one should follow the Complete Guru instead of the incomplete or the unauthentic.
Yea, Guru Sahib’s first teacher was a Muslim Maulvi, but to teach him Persian. Guru Sahib’s only Murshad is Akal Purkh (Allah). Nanak’s father’s strong desire was that Nanak should learn something, which will be useful for earning his livelihood.
Next day, Mehta Kalu consulted Rae Bular. He advised that Nanak should be sent to some Mulla or Maulvi to learn Pharsi, as it was the language of the government. Knowledge of Pharsi was necessary for government service. He told that he would employ Nanak as Munshi (clerk), once Nanak learned Pharsi. Rae Bular’s father had recently become Muslim. He had respect for Hindu culture and sages, Rae Bular was Jagirdar of Talwandi and Mehta Kalu was his patwari, who was responsible for collecting revenue, looking after accounts etc.
As advised by Rae Bular, Nanak’s training commenced at Mullah’s house, on an auspicious day. He began teaching Nanak with much love, the latter being the son of Rae Bular’s munshi. Mullah asked him one day why he was not reading. Nanak composed a verse. Its gist was thus: Death is inevitable. So it is essential to fear the Creator of the universe; Parmatma. For that, His Name has to be remembered. My thoughts revolve around that. Kazi Sahib, you too remember His name and know Him. However deeply a man learns, he has to depart when his breath stops. But those who repeat the Name become immortal. Having known these thoughts, Mullah said to Nanak’s father, “Nanak could not be taught like others. He is talking philosophy.” The Ustad bowed to Nanak and became his disciple. He went to Raebular and Mehta Kalu and told that Nanak was a divine man.
Please let me know where Guru Sahib said this. Lol… Lol…
Yes, decision rests on us only but why are you propagating false things?
Just like what that Sardar ji told you looked rubbish to you, it could look rubbish to sardar jis as well when you say that all the souls will seek their bodies on the doomsday and Allah will listen to all, and those who do not remember Quraan by heart shall be thrown in the fire of hell and so on. Never say one’s belief as rubbish. It hurts all equally. Who gives us right to speak ill of the path we know not ABC of. And yes, Kaafir, this is perhaps the most favourite word of you guys. I shall like to know its meaning. To me, a kaafir is anyone who does not believe in Waheguru ji, and in the equality of all humans irrespective of their colour and creed, has a complex of inferiority under or of superiority over any other religion. To me, Kaafir is anyone who does not have a Murshad. Guru Sahib says -
ਸਿਤਗੁਰ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ਿਨਗੁਰੇ ਕਾ ਹੈ ਨਾਉ ਬੁਰਾ
Satgur Baajho Gur Nahin Koi Nigure Ka Hai Naao Bura.
(Without the True Guru, there is no Guru at all; one who is without a Guru has a bad reputation.)
I smell presence of superiority complex in your post, man. You call us non-believers. Those who say to Waheguru ji -
ਤੇਰਾ ਕੀਆ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਗੈ
ਹਿਰ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਮਾਗੈ
Tera Keeya Meetha Laagey. Har Naam Padaarath Nanak Maangay.
(Your actions seem so sweet to me. Nanak begs for the treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.)
What an irrational thought your religion preaches, if it does!!! The one who is smiling while getting all joints cut (Bhai Mani Singh ji) is a non-believer for your religion, and the one who is cutting the joints is a believer. One who is killing his own brothers and putting his father in gaol is still a believer, and the one who is giving his life to save someone else’s religion (Guru Tegh Bahadar Sahib) is a non-believer. May Allah bless you all!!! Mohammed Sahib could never have said such atrocities to be done towards humans. This is what I say when I call that Kuraan is not in its original form. Its contents have been contaminated.
Enough for the day.
Dust of the feet of those living life in accordance with Gurmat,
Parminder Singh
You say Allaah has created also, as well as kafir what are you intending. Secondly Allaah has created you also, so what should we do now, even you are a kafir.
Remember this simple understanding Allaah is God in Arabic, fine GOD.
Sir, I know the man-made religion has become a popular term used by muslims in the 21st century, no doubt in that. And I am sure it catches many offguard and possibly ofends them however if accompanied with a proper explanation I think the misunderstanding can be cleared up.
As you might well know, muslims believe Muhammad SAW as the last messenger of Allah SWT. So when we say last messenger, what is meant is the last one to recieve divine revelation. We also believe that Islam was perfected for all mankind 1400 hundred years ago after the completion of Quranic revelation. It was clearly indicated the set or morals and guidelines for achieving salvation with Allah SWT have been indoctrined in Islam (and you will find amy commonalities in Islam with the previously revealed religions i.e. Christianity and Judaism, there definitely were other Prophets whose teachings were divinely revealed however none of them gained widespread foothold as it did with Christianity or Judaism before Islam). Now the term man-made simply means that whatever religion is being propagated after the completion of Islam is in reality borrowing from other previously revealed religions and not because Allah SWT is sending new divine revelation. Or in other words re-inventing the wheel based on their own opinions and choices. It does not mean everything in that religion is bad, there definitely are good things because it is really comprised from the good influences of other religions. The key thing, which sends them astray is, to be a religion it needs to have a creed, this creed sets it apart from other religions and in most part contributes to the salvation of its followers i.e. In Islam it is Tawhid, In Christianity it is Trinity etc. Now if in Sikhism the creed is believing in the Oneness of God than that is nothing new as it is already stressed and ingrained in Islam.
There is nothing wrong with what Tauba said. Any other belief besides the 3 Abrahamic faiths are man made, whether it be Hinduism, Sikkhism, Buddhism, what have you. There's nothing insulting about it, it's simply the truth. It's their problem if they get upset about it. If someone were to say that about Islam, I would just laugh it off since It's clear that would have no clue as to what they're talking about.
We have the option of going to heaven, unlike the non-believers.
Yes, we’re all the same in the sense that we are human beings, but we’re definitely not the same in our belief system. Our beliefs will determine if we are going to burn in hell, or live eternally in heaven.
Yes, we're all the same in the sense that we are human beings, but we're definitely not the same in our belief system. Our beliefs will determine if we are going to burn in hell, or live eternally in heaven.
How you know you will go to heaven????????
has anyone seen heaven or hell??
Yes, we're all the same in the sense that we are human beings, but we're definitely not the same in our belief system. Our beliefs will determine if we are going to burn in hell, or live eternally in heaven.
But still most people like yourself **want to go to hell.**
Me...being a pagan/ unbeliever...accept the challenge from allah and will remain a unbeliever. I want to see what happens to me after death if i die as a kafir!.
About Islam, Guru Sahib says -