i dont always support suicide bombings, but coming under the kind of strain palestinions r enduring, im not surprised they would resort to that kind of violance. they have my complete and unquestionable support
“And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they
have turned you out” [2:191]
The Jews are a people of slander. They are a treacherous people who violate
oaths and covenants. They lie and change words from their right places. They
take the rights of people unjustly, and kill the Prophets and the innocent.
They are the most severe in their hatred for those who believe. Allah
(swt) has forbidden us from allying ourselves with them.
So I SUPPORT Suicide bombing, I am not going to get Islam into this but what else is one to do? And I dont call it a Suicide bomber I call him/her a SHAHID!! And a Shahid is Habib Allah (swt).
Those who catagorically consider all jews as evils and try to prove it from Quran are at fault. Quran does not racist towards any creed, cult or religion.
2.62: Those who believe (in the Qurán), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
5.69: Those who believe (in the Qurán), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
[quote]
Originally posted by Sultan Toora:
** I hope israelites do give peace a chance, it is indeed the palestinains who have swallowed thier pride almost every time. Ask any palestinain or kashmiri leader or common man if they would like to see peace or not.**
[/quote]
Bro, didn't Barak give them 90 percent of everything they wanted when the met at camp David? And didn't Arafat turn it all down. Thats what i call pride. Hhe should have accepted it, and we caould have saved 100s of lives by now. And i dont think its swallowing your pride when your blowing up people in pizza shops. All I am saying is this. Agree to their terms, get what you can, gain some strength, and then go back to the fight. Right now, Palestinians are killing themselves, for gain of nothing at all, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I can understand what they must be going through, but lets start thinking in practical terms rather then emotional ones. Suicide bombings are just a needless waste of human life.
ok guys i think we are reaching some where..
few think that : Khilafah is the solution
and few think that : palestenians should stop offense
few think that : israel is not peace loving..
I surely do support khilafah. but lets not forget constructing and building khilafah will take much more than talking about it.
and at present majority muslims, muslim govt. are not united.
Ok like now palestenians have seen, the result of their agression, they should sit back. and relax. and let the muslim world, and america do the trick.. is that what are u ppl saying..?
Dont think "you can" know "you can"
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.
How can you use this ayat to justify the suicide bombings. This ayat is not a general rule to be applied anywhere anytime, if this were the case all the Muslim rulers (in very beginning phase after Prophet Mohammed PBUH) would have killed all jews. But thats not the case. Please be carefull when you use Quranic ayats. Thanks
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif
Brother Flamezz, it really is very disappointing, frustrating and what not that our Palestinian brothers are being crushed and we can’t help, and all we are left with is ‘suicide bombing’. howcome? Howcome thats the only choice we have? I’m sure we have thousands of other choices. How good of a Muslim are we? People are talking about “khilafa”, are we ready for it? our corruption at all levels would still permit us to have a “khilafa”? would we really get a “khilafa” and not Yazeed-Muwayia type of ‘malookiat’?
For now, we are in era of confusion, where all sorts of scholars are available, all sorts of corruption rules our lives. The very first thing ALL of us should do is to follow Islam in all aspects of our lives, not just pray 5 times a day. Islam is not for “selective” following, but for “complete” following.
May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right
You are right: We found following conclusions from this discussion.
**
-
Khilafah is the solution.
-
Palestenians should stop offense(they should take the +ve direction and not the violence way).
-
Israel is not peace loving..
**
I support all the above. Now you are saying **“I surely do support khilafah. but lets not forget constructing and building khilafah will take much more than talking about it.”
**
This is exactly what you asked in the other thread “Well unless an untill the khilafah is there. do we all Muslims have to suffer like this ?? constantly
how long this process might take ???”
I have answered it in that thread. Click below for the answer. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/004786.html
And Allah Ta’ala Knows Best!
[quote]
Originally posted by SkillJaan:
*2. Palestenians should stop offense (they should take the +ve direction and not the violence way). *
[/quote]
Palestenians should stop offense
U R Kidding RIGHT??
Would U be kind enough to shed more light on +ive directions.
So U WANT THEM TO WAIT 4 THE WORLD'S HELP. RIGHT???
Have U forgotten about the Horrors of Bosnian Muslims. YES THE WORLD CAME FOR THEIR HELP ** WHEN THERE WAS NO ONE LEFT TO TORTURE ** Does 500 thousand, Ring any bells?
**
¨`°¤© Today's Line For a Fortune Cookie ©¤°´¨
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing "HARD TO GET". This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
**
I'm sure we have thousands of other choices.
**
[/quote]
Would U be kind enough to name few.
**
¨`°¤© Today's Line For a Fortune Cookie ©¤°´¨
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing "HARD TO GET". This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
For those proponents of Suicide bombing...WHAT THE FCUK are you still doing on gupshup? Shouldn't you be e-mailing from heaven? Why are you still here?
[quote]
Originally posted by Quasimodo:
** Palestenians should stop offense
U R Kidding RIGHT??
Would U be kind enough to shed more light on +ive directions.
So U WANT THEM TO WAIT 4 THE WORLD'S HELP. RIGHT???
**
[/quote]
I am so indebted to your reply. Really, I just wrote that by mistake without any research. I must have asked some reliable and knowledgeable person on the matter. Actually what I was saying that "we" should work for Khilafah, not the Palestinians. In the discussion it just slipped out of my mouth that "Palestenians should stop offense".
I just recalled that somebody told me that for the Muslims who are under direct oppression, "Jihad becomes Fardh on them" if they have power and if they dont have the power for that, then "Jihad becomes Fardh on the Khilafah". Insha-Allah, I will confirm this but I am not sure about it. If anyone of you have knowledge about this masla please post it here!
O Allah, I am sorry for putting a statement without research.
Astaghfir-ullah
Astaghfir-ullah
Astaghfir-ullah
The point is that I dont know what the Palestinians must do now! But I am sure what "we" should do. I am sure about the following statement:
Because there is no Khilafah in the world anywhere, no one can come to their help! Therefore, "we"(and not palestinians, pardon) should work for Khilafah so that when Khilafah comes, it can send armies to save the oppressed Muslims all over the world.
So what we have to do is clear from above statement. Now about Palestinians my opinion(and thats just an opinion not a statement based on research and Islamic knowledge) is that even if the Palestinians are not to sit down, yet they must take utmost care that civilians are not harmed in the struggle; but if the civilians are harmed in the process even with so care, then there is no blame on the Palestinians! *Allah(SWT) is The Most Mercyful! *
**O Allah, Forgive me for such a horrible mistake and save me from the evil of Satan. Surely You(SWT) are The Most Forgiveful!
And You Know Best! **
**Rooh kee gehraai say niklee howee baat
Rooh kee gehraai tak zaroor jaai gee!!
Happy Souls Make A Community Happy!**
Sudcide for ANY purpose or reason is Haraam. Their is NO excuse in Islam for this sinful act. You can try justifying, aplogizing, or defending these actions all you want, but it still doesn’t chnage the fact that Allah has forbidden suicide under any circumstances.
http://www.quraan.com/Fiqh/SuicideBombings.asp
The Words of Shaikh Ibn Uthaymeen Concerning Suicide Bombings In Palestine & Elsewhere
Fatwa-Online
Shaikh Ibn Uthaymeen, may Allaah have mercy upon him, said in his explanation of Riyaadus-Saaliheen (1/165-166), whilst giving some points of benefit from the hadeeth of Suhayb, may Allaah be pleased with him:
"That Allaah¹s Messenger, sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam, said, “There used to be a king amongst those who came before you, and he had a sorcerer. So when he grew old he said to the king, ‘I have become old so send a boy to me so that I can teach him sorcery’…” the hadeeth continues. (see Riyaadhus-Saaliheen, no. 30)
Fourthly: That it is not permissible for a person to expose himself to danger for a matter of general benefit to the Muslims, because the boy indicated to the king the way in which he would be able to kill him, and which would lead to his demise, which was that he should take an arrow from his quiver.. etc.
Shaikhul-Islaam (Ibn Taymiyyah) said, “Because this was a Jihaad in Allaah¹s cause, which caused a whole nation to truly believe, and he did not really lose anything, since although he died he would have to die anyway, sooner or later.”
But as for what some people do regarding activities of suicide, tying explosives to themselves and then approaching Unbelievers and detonating them amongst them, then this is a case of suicide and Allaah¹s refuge is sought. So whoever commits suicide then he will be considered eternally to Hell-Fire, remaining there forever, as occurs in the hadeeth of the Prophet, sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam, his saying, “And whoever kills himself with an iron weapon, then the iron weapon will remain in his hand, and he will continuously stab himself in his belly with it in the Fire of Hell eternally, forever and ever.” Reported by al-Bukhaaree, no. 5778 and Muslim, no. 109, in the Book of Eemaan.)
Because this person has killed himself and has not benefited Islaam. So if he kills himself along with ten, or a hundred, or two hundred other people, then Islaam will not benefit by that, since the people will not accept Islaam, contrary to the story of the boy. Rather it will probably just make the enemy more determined, and this action will provoke malice and bitterness in his heart to such an extent that he may seek to wreak havoc upon the Muslims.
This is what is found from the practice of the Jews with the people of Palestine so when one of the Palestinian blows himself up and kills six or seven people, then in retaliation they take sixty or more. So this does not produce any benefit for the Muslims, and does not benefit those amongst whose ranks explosives are detonated.
So what we hold is that those people who perform these suicide (bombings) have wrongfully committed suicide, and that this necessitates entry into Hell-Fire, and Allaah’s refuge is sought and that this person is not a martyr (shaheed). However if a person has done this based upon misinterpretation, thinking that it is permissible, then we hope that he will be saved from sin, but as for martyrdom being written for him, then no, since he has not taken the path of martyrdom. But whoever performs ijtihaad and errs will receive a single reward (if he is a person qualified to make ijtihaad).
[quote]
Originally posted by Faraz Mir:
Sudcide for ANY purpose or reason is Haraam....
[/quote]
I can see U R VERY EXCITED THAT U FOUND SOME INFO ON SUICIDE, BUT hey I believe U can also find lots of other sites that will explain what's happening is Palestine is not Suicide. BUT THATS NOT THE POINT. What Flamez was asking WHAT WOULD U DO IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS? What R UR suggestions 4 the people in Palestine? What they should DO? PLEASE read Flamez first post before U get too excited again.
**
¨`°¤© Today's Line For a Fortune Cookie ©¤°´¨
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing "HARD TO GET". This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum25/HTML/004415.html
about 300 palestenians have been brutally murdered by israeli terrorists and 1500 injured.
its like a open war.. open terrorism, opression.. somehow someone should retaliate.. and resist…
without propper war weapons, without guns, how u cope with such a brutal enemy ??
Dont think “you can” know “you can”
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.
Are you two not able to understand simple English? Does being a fanatic Muslim mean you have to be illogical and idiotic as well?
Suicide is HARRAM. Period. No excuses. There is a reason why Allah has given us moral and ethical codes to follow in war and peace. Allah’s commands are not just decorations to be thrown away by fanatics. There is NO excuse for disobeying Allah. If we all started making excuses about things we didn’t like in Islam, no one would follow any Islamic belief. You can’t pick and choose in Islam. You have to follow everything or nothing. Suicide bombing is just a political tool used by Palestinians because they are seeking revenge. I can’t blame them for this, but this still does not mean what they do is Islamic. If they were not to terrorize Israeli public, then the IDF would not have to respond. Most Palestinians die because of IDF reprisals to Palestinian terrorist suicide attacks.
No suicide bombing=no IDF reprisals= no Palestinians killed.
Follow the logic, but I doubt you will. You are blinded by your hatred of non-Muslims. People like you will always believe that their is a conspiracy to kill Muslims by kaafirs and that Muslims are the most oppressed people in the world. Classic case of victomology. In your eyes, Muslims are always the victims, and everyone else who dies by acts of "Muslim" terrorist actions deserved what they got. You will never ever even try to see the other side, where Israeli children have their head blown off while in a hotel, or Israeli women in a bus get blown up.
As long a Muslim does something, you will twist Islam in any shape or form to justify the actions of any Muslim against a kaafir.
Tomorrow, if Hamas declares that they will kill and torture all Christians in Palestine, you will find a way to justify that as well. Their is no limit to the stupidity of the Muslim fanatic.
So please don’t bother showing me fatwas encouraging suicide bombings by politicized fanatical Mullahs. These people are blinded by hatred and revenge to think straight enough.
Faraz Mir you cannot begin to understand why these people do what they do, you cant begin to understand what they go through, I swear if it was you in there position to see your mother fighting everyday with a Jew solider, your father taken to jail, your brothers killed in front of you and your sisters, I swear you would do what they do. Tell me do you think there is anyone in this world that wants to die? No one in the world wants to die, not the ill and not the very old. But all in the name of despair people will do anything. These "Suicide bombers" are not terrorist they are just protecting their land. If it wasn't for Hezbollah Lebanon today would still be under Israeli occupation.
I am not saying I am all for "Suicide bombings" but what else is there to do. And whether we approve of it or not, it will go on for a very long time. And this is going to keep happening with the next generation and the next and the next. Hate for the Jews is implanted before the child is even conceived.
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**As I have expressed it many times before that worse than the situations you mentioned above have been forced of people throughout history. And there are many different ways people have retaliated to such atrocities.
But we as Muslims should always follow the traditions of the Holy Prophet (saw)!
*The early converts to Islam, and 13 years of AnHazoor (saw) in Mecca were far worse than what people of Palestine are going through today. But great was he (saw) and his followers (ra) that they never user violence (such as suicide bombing) as a mean to retaliate. *
Actually it was the Pagans of Mecca who would 'sneak attack' the Muslims. They would torture them where ever they would find them, if found alone on the deserted roads would murder them.. But the message of our beloved AnHazoor (saw) was of PEACE & PEACE ALONE!
Do you want me to narrate to you the history of Sulah-e-Hudabiya?
So, the suicide bombers can retaliate however they so wish but they have no right to justify it in the name of Islam.**
[/quote]
Your premise is flawed since there is no comparison between the 2 situations.
During the early times of Islam, muslims were few. The holy prophet (pbuh), under instrutions from Allah (swt), stressed patience since any out right attack would have anniliated any remaining muslims.
However, in latter years, we have examples of the battle of Ohad, Khandaq, Khaibar, and others, where muslim armies defeated the pagans. Wars were also carried out against the Romans.
The case with the palestianians does not require them to just sit and watch, since there are 56 muslim nations who could be helping them if they chose to do so.
A Wizard arrives neither early nor late, but precisely when he chooses to
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**Those who catagorically consider all jews as evils and try to prove it from Quran are at fault. Quran does not racist towards any creed, cult or religion.
2.62: Those who believe (in the Qurán), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
5.69: Those who believe (in the Qurán), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. **
[/quote]
May I remind you of the following:
Before saying that whoever believes in Allah and the last day, and does good, not becoming a Muslim even after Islam has been chosen as the religion of Allah, is entitled to be blessed by Allah, the following verse should be taken into consideration:
**And whoso seeks as religion other than Islam it will not be accepted from him, and he will be among the losers in the hereafter.
(Ali Imran: 85) **
And to remove misunderstanding, it should be noted that this verse refers to those Sabeans, Jews and Christians who, as sincere faithful, followed the original teachings of their respective prophets, without ever corrupting the true message, and believing in the prophecy of the advent of Muhammad made known by Musa, Isa and other prophets (see Baqarah: 40), and also those of them who lived in the days of the Holy Prophet but died before the news of his proclamation of the promised prophethood could reach them, because surely they would have come into the fold of Islam if they had known about it. Belief in the unity of Allah and the day of judgement and doing good is the spirit of Islam. This was the religion all the messengers of Allah preached to their people.
A Wizard arrives neither early nor late, but precisely when he chooses to
I know that the Palestinians are in a difficult position. But as Muslims we cannot abandon our faith, no matter what the situation.
The Prophet (PBUH) was harassed, threatened, ridiculed, abused, and God knows what was done to him by the unbelievers, but he practiced 'sabar', and did not retaliate in kind. This is what is supposed to make Muslims different then the ones who oppress us. If they show hatred towards us, we as Muslims must go beyond our human instincts and find solace in Allah's words. No matter what we have to show even the enemy our kindness.
If I were in the Palestinian's shoes, I would kill an IDF solider I saw, but never harm a civilian. IF I felt the need for revenge, I would find some solace in reading the Quran and reaffirming my faith.
Suicide bombings are not the answer to anything.
[quote]
Originally posted by Faraz Mir:
**Are you two not able to understand simple English? Does being a fanatic Muslim mean you have to be illogical and idiotic as well?
Suicide is HARRAM. Period. No excuses. There is a reason why Allah has given us moral and ethical codes to follow in war and peace. Allah’s commands are not just decorations to be thrown away by fanatics. There is NO excuse for disobeying Allah. If we all started making excuses about things we didn’t like in Islam, no one would follow any Islamic belief. You can’t pick and choose in Islam. You have to follow everything or nothing. Suicide bombing is just a political tool used by Palestinians because they are seeking revenge. I can’t blame them for this, but this still does not mean what they do is Islamic. If they were not to terrorize Israeli public, then the IDF would not have to respond. Most Palestinians die because of IDF reprisals to Palestinian terrorist suicide attacks.
No suicide bombing=no IDF reprisals= no Palestinians killed.
Follow the logic, but I doubt you will. You are blinded by your hatred of non-Muslims. People like you will always believe that their is a conspiracy to kill Muslims by kaafirs and that Muslims are the most oppressed people in the world. Classic case of victomology. In your eyes, Muslims are always the victims, and everyone else who dies by acts of "Muslim" terrorist actions deserved what they got. You will never ever even try to see the other side, where Israeli children have their head blown off while in a hotel, or Israeli women in a bus get blown up.
As long a Muslim does something, you will twist Islam in any shape or form to justify the actions of any Muslim against a kaafir.
Tomorrow, if Hamas declares that they will kill and torture all Christians in Palestine, you will find a way to justify that as well. Their is no limit to the stupidity of the Muslim fanatic.
So please don’t bother showing me fatwas encouraging suicide bombings by politicized fanatical Mullahs. These people are blinded by hatred and revenge to think straight enough
**
[/quote]
U R Getting TOO EXCITED AGAIN. U R keep beating around the bush. NoBody is asking here if SUICIDE IS HARAM OR HALAL. READ THE FLAMEZZ first POST Again. And before U respond TAKE A DEEP BREATH SO THE ANGER WON'T BLOCK UR BRAIN CELLS FROM WORKING.
I am amusing U R Muslim (May GOD FORGIVE ME 4 THIS) and U seem to claim to know all there is to about Islam. Would U be kind enough to explain the difference between Backbitting and Slander Of character from Islamic point of view? What Our Prophet has to say about it? ONCE U answer This,then take a deep look at URself.
**
¨`°¤© Today's Line For a Fortune Cookie ©¤°´¨
The person you had a crush on in your adolescense, and who appeared curt and dismissive towards you, was merely playing "HARD TO GET". This person continius to add to a drawer full of love letters written to you, but not yet sent.**
[This message has been edited by Quasimodo (edited April 08, 2002).]