I need help, advice.

Lifestyle Relationships
1

Newbie, a long time lurker .

Where to begin?

Been married more than 20 years.

Somewhat arranged marriage, a very happy event for all parties.

Husband is only one from his siblings who is NOT married to a cousin.

My sons are the only grandsons, and the only grandsons from “Dayaal” , paternal side), hence name being carried forward.

Husband’s entire siblings and parents live in the USA. Remainder of his family live in Pakistan, including all Aunts/Uncle, cousins, every relation.

My inlaws in USA are educated bunch, over the years became very religious. They have always had love/hate relations with their own children and their spouses.

Since the day my sons were born, ( I will not divulge ages) they were told they will marry cousins/relatives in Pakistan , or female cousins in the USA. I put an end to that talk, but every now and then, my inlaws will bring it up again.

My in laws have substantial assets, property in Pakistan. They are wanting the 'grandson’s" to take part in running the property. My inlaws have complete control over it, and have never allowed their own children to touch it, or benefit from it.

My children have visited Pakistan very few times as their immediate relations from father’s side all live here. Are not super aware of the culture, nor do they speak any other language other than English.

My inlaws are adamant that the older grandson go to Pakistan, get to know his relatives there, and know what is there. The relatives there are my husband’s cousins, their children, Aunts/Uncles etc. My husband nor his siblings do not know them well enough, though siblings are married to relatives.

My inlaws have very much favoured their other daughter in laws/ son in laws over the years. My inlaws have also hinted again and again to my husband “there are still plenty of cousins for you to marry in Pakistan, shame you are married to your wife”.

Many men in my husband’s family in Pakistan have two wives. The women who not married, as they are married to the ‘Quran’, Astaghfirullah..This is due to property issues.

I do not want my son to go to Pakistan. My husband who has always been reasonable is thinking it’s a good idea for him to go. My inlaws also want my husband to go to Pakistan for long periods of time.

Obviously since i am writing this, I have my concerns. I have immense fears. I do not trust anyone from my husband’s family, nor do I trust his parents.

I do not know what to do.

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Re: I need help, advice.

Well...we don't have people married to the quran but your dynamics sound similar to my mother's with her inlaws (my dad's side of the family). It all really depends on how much say and respect your husband has for you. My dad's siblings wanted me and my siblings to marry into their family so that they could keep the property, have some control over my dad (hes wealthier than the rest of them) and so they could get visas to America. Dad is very easily influenced by the "love" for his family but my mom had the wisdom/foresight to put an end to those thoughts. Also, if your kids are westernized like you explain, there is NO WAY they would be willing to marry some random stranger in Pakistan just to keep property that they probably don't care about in the family.

What specifically are your concerns? is your husband not listening to you? Are your kids in pakistan right now?

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Re: I need help, advice.

what is married to Quran?

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Re: I need help, advice.

Bible thumpers/Qur'an thumpers?

Marrying relatives is not Islamic IIRC. I thought Islam wanted to marry out as possible? Your sons would have a better life in Pakistan if they are rich. They wouldn't even have to speak Urdu/Punjabi if they were mega rich.

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Re: I need help, advice.

My husband and i have always had a wonderful, loving and respectful relationship.

His parents obviously older, with ill health are now talking to him about the above mentioned topics.

In some ways, my husband's way of thinking has changed in regards to certain topics, and it is freaking me out.

The children are not in Pakistan, and if i can help it , that will not happen. Over the years, my inlaws and my husbands family members have told me that my son's are not my son's, that they are the son's of the khandaan.

A relative of my husband married a woman not within the family. They have one son. This boy and his sisters were raised in the USA; the son visited Pakistan and never returned. He is now about 21/22, a drug addict, sleeping around with women, enjoying the benefits of being a wealthy landowner. That boy's family is still here, but husband and wife are separated. Everyone knows the husband has other women, all common knowledge.

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Re: I need help, advice.

how has your husband's thinking changed? I mean, it sounds like your kids wouldn't agree with this and unless your husband is mentioning that it's a good idea, I don't think you should panic.

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Re: I need help, advice.

I simply do not trust my husband's family, my husband is saying it is not a bad idea for the older one to visit Pakistan. He has never agreed to the children/son's ever vsiiting Pakistan in the past.

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Re: I need help, advice.

Yeah, that's just awful. I guess you could reach a compromise by saying that you will teach them about Pakistan and its culture... its more saddening that your children don't know Urdu. Perhaps they think if they send them back they'll be more connected.

My partner also hinted at these things. I.E sending our children to Pakistan for university and I flat out refused. None of my children will be going to a university in Pakistan where they would be very different from others. He doesn't want to live in Pakistan. Why should we send our children there? It's absurd.

You should voice your concerns with your husband. You could visit with him. Make a whole family trip! I went there and it was fun. I think it would be more fun as a proper tourist though... like going to all the pretty farm areas etc

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Re: I need help, advice.

so your in-laws want your son to go to Pakistan to see what property is there and to take part in running or managing the property? do they want him to permanently reside there or just to go every now and then to participate in running the business? if its the later, then i don't see what's the panic. you said your sons are the only grand sons so its logical that your in-laws want them to be more involved in business/properties back home.
on subject of wanting your sons to marry inside the family with some relative in Pakistan, is it that your sons are also completely against the idea or its just you. if your sons are open to the idea, then i think they could at least meet the girls in Pakistan and see if they can proceed further or not.

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Re: I need help, advice.

How old are your sons? I don't agree with marrying back in pakistan as there can be quite a cultural difference which you don't c at the beginning but get bigger as time goes on. Kids from the west don't really care about wealth and property back home.

Husbands get very easily influenced by their family's.

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Re: I need help, advice.

This could turn out into a massive tug of war and with your husband being swayed by the romantic notion of the next generation being merged back into the family. I do believe people should know their roots but your husband's family has more mercenary claims on your sons than a longing for family ties.

I think it's important to start teaching your sons the concept of halal ki kamai (Married to Quran issues mean that it is no longer halal). Your sons might see on a brief visit that it seems like easy money but to keep it a profitable business one needs to settle down into village life. I think simply taking away their choice is going to kill any influence your husband's family members have on their your sons. If they start dictating life partners, careers, lifestyle your sons aren't going to love that promise of money at all.

Firstly tell your sons you support them. Their careers, lifestyle everything. And that they can rely on you.

Secondly put forward the idea that your sons will be involved in a family that does not have issues of inheritance. If they want them to take up the family name and inheritance then everyone needs to get their share beforehand.

If you're worried about your sons' safety then Pakistan trip should be a no go. If you need to get them off your back now then tell them they should wait until your son has a university degree. By that time he'll be mature enough to know what's right for him.

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Re: I need help, advice.

Thats why people suggest to look at the family not just the girl/boy when wanting to get married. So now 20 years later, you in trouble. I think you know the answer, you just need the courage perhaps.

You can't change other people's point of views and thoughts and priorities. You need to make sure your son is aware of whats going on, and give him time to discuss reality and gravity of the situation. Give him the opportunity to discuss this with both his parents. Your family shouldn't be in the habit of making decisions for each other, so give voice to your son. And give him the courage to voice it openly. Don't turn this into a tug of war with your son as the rope. Put him in control, influence his decision with perspective and knowledge, and not emotional blackmail or coaxing.

finally, if you find good advice anywhere, have the wisdom and courage to act on it.

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Re: I need help, advice.

My husband and his siblings do not speak a word of Urdu, Panjabi, etc. They grew up in a completely non Desi household.

When i married my husband, I married him for him and that his family was really nice. My parents scouted out his family, and they in turn ours. We knew they have family in Pakistan, but his entire immediate family was/is in the USA. Why on earth would we think of moving to Pakistan, when my husband and his siblings all grew up and reside in the US?

My children know about Pakistan, I am not defending any decisions here. They grew up with chachas, phophos, and frankly that is all that matters, not third cousin, and this sister in laws parents, this so and so's cousins.

My inlaws are in the medical / healthcare professions. they are pioneers in some advances in medicine, you would not know it by living with them.

Their views have become so backward and downright ridiculous, it is quite mind boggling.

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Re: I need help, advice.

We looked at family, my parents looked at his family. They looked at ours. I did not run away with him, it was a match made and AH, we have had a great time. No one can predict how one will be 20 years from now.

My in laws are medical doctors. Their other daughter in laws are their nieces, their son in laws are their nephews.

I have put my foot down on many occasions over the years, and made many things clear.

My older son is 18, the other is 16, and they are well aware of what is going on. They love their grandparents, and I feel they are being made to choose.
They asked the older one to visit Pakistan for a month, he said "no".

They asked him "why not?"
He said "because I don't want to"

My in laws went crazy. Told my son how their mother (I) was keeping them away from everyone, my son kept quiet , and they then called me cursing me every name under the sun, and how i was to blame, how my husband can get another wife in Pakistan.

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Re: I need help, advice.

There is no such thing as being married to the Quran. It is sadly an act of jahaliyaat, basically to keep unmarried daughters at home (women who are well into their age now), so property/land/ etc can be kept within the family. Women are not married simple as that.

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Re: I need help, advice.

Thats a toughie. Ultimately, your sons will have to choose. And everyone will have to be accountable for their own behavior. verbal abuse and terrorizing and other tactics might work...depends on how bad things get. I have no advice for you now :-\ sorry

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Re: I need help, advice.

1) After 20 years of marriage, you already know that your in-laws will not change. Let him say whatever they want. As the saying goes....in one ear and out the other.

2) At 18 and 16, your sons are old enough to make the decision on their own as to to whether they want to visit Pakistan and for how long. You just need to let your sons know that you will support whatever decision they make on their own. Don't bash your husband's family or bring the sons into the drama. Just let them know that you are on their side, and they don't have to do anything they're not comfortable with. Looks like the 18 year old already has decided he's not going. THEY asked him to choose and he chose to stay in U.S. Hopefully the 16 year old will follow in his footsteps.

3) What did your husband say about the 18 year old refusing to go to Pakistan for a month? Has your husband himself told you anything negative/nasty regarding this? Has he been upset/mad at you for this?

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Re: I need help, advice.

Why is your husband so little in the picture? You only mentioned him once in all this story (i.e he is reasonable). He is your best bet. Talk to him.

I am assuming that your kids are 18+ so no one can force things on them anyway (not even you). Do they want to go back to Pakistan and live there? I am guessing from the post that your in-laws are VERY well to do family (I guess some waideras from Sindh??). Life is not that hard for people with $$$$$$$$$ & connections in Pakistan. What does your kids say? Do they have any desire to give it a try or they will just flat our deny?

and finally, why are you so against it (other than they being not familiar to culture) ?

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Re: I need help, advice.

lol...

No, even at 18 they do not earn anything. They have to go to university right? They don't know Urdu or Punjabi... how on earth are they going to live there? They won't even be able to speak to others comfortably.

Just refuse. There's no logical reason for him to go there when he has no connection... just by birth doesn't mean anything.

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Re: I need help, advice.

Did u read what she said about someone else's son who went back to Pakistan. He became a drug addict and womanizer. I think it's logical for OP to assume tht her son is not mature enough and doesn't want him to be influenced negatively by the wadera/zameendaar culture and also the immense wealth to go to his head. With grown kids they're intimidating her with 2nd wife, that too with the fact that she's the only one with sons. Imagine what they'd do if she as the outsider bahu had only daughters. They would've had a bahu imported from Pakistan a long time back.
Anyway, op I can't think of anything other than keep ur husband on the same page as u, don't let him get influenced by his parents. And also keep having talks with ur son about the negatives of that culture. I think OP would have no problem with them visiting Pakistan if they didn't have the wierd wadera culture and immense wealth thing going on. If they had normal upper middle class relatives in pak maybe she wouldn't be too worried about sending her son. Btw if they do somehow force him to go for "a month" make sure u or ur husband go with him.

On a side note, I never understood the point of marrying someone to the Quran. Ok the point is so that she doesn't get her land inheritance, she just gets room and board and expenses whatever. But if the waderas/zameendaar r so ok with indulging in criminal activities, indebting families into enslavement, abusing women, mistreating farmers and making them slog, killing ppl over property disputes, killing ppl over ghaerat then who's forcing them to distribute the inheritance?? I mean if they can kill someone so that they won't inherit part of the wealth then why not just let them go run off marry whoever they want and live their life. I mean isn't it better to withhold someone's inheritance rather than refuse them the joy of a happily married life? Or even just the companionship u get from being married. This has just always irked me everytime I've read an article, watched a dram or a movie with this subject matter. I mean if ur going to be evil then atleast choose the lesser one and that too for ur sibling. It's usually the brothers who do this to their sisters right, or basically the male relatives. I really wonder how much money these ppl have that they go to such lengths for it. I mean if it's some exorbitant amount it can't be that bad divided by 4. Like they won't go bankrupt or something. The can probably still afford their havelis and pajeros and multiple wives and foreign vacations. But whatever! I just had to say all this.