I invite Sher

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

I’ve seen brother Sher having so much quries about Islam. I invite him to this thread to talk about all of them one by one. You see the problem is that I find your question very scatered in the various threads.
All I want is that you put all your question in this thread and we deal with them one by one [on topic at a time].
But before the debate you’ll have to give your introduction. I would like to know your religious and social background.

Muslim Brothers & Sisters
I request all the Muslim brothers and sisters to let Sher and I have a debate on this. I would really like all the brothers and sister help me with it in my PMs. Becase you see when we make alot of replies it makes the debate go off-topic. I respect the intention of all the muslim brothers and sisters.
I dont have much knowledge of Islam but all I want is that Sher should be answered. Dont think of me as an arrogant man who is proud of what he knows. Pray for me. I know Allah [swt] will give me strength and wisdom to depict islam in a proper way.
Surely Allah [swt] knows best.

2

Come on Sher... take the bate.

3

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniDragon: *
Come on Sher... take the bate.
[/QUOTE]
Incase you didnt realise I requested all the other members of the forum to let Sher & I speak in this thread.
I do understand that this is a public forum and I cant push people to do that. It is a mere request, for the better understand of the thread.

4

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: *
Incase you didnt realise I requested all the other members of the forum to let Sher & I speak in this thread.
I do understand that this is a public forum and I cant push people to do that. It is a mere request, for the better understand of the thread.
[/QUOTE]

well ddue sher is an idiot..disgrace muslim.....just be replying or calling him on thread will not solve problem...muslims like him neeed taliban government..hhuh....plz dont call him here cuz i cannot stop myself to reply beac of his so much anti islam posts

5

ill be off topic an say.. stupid idiot bhai.. it wud be good if u would change your nick and register by another nick… cause nobody will take u seriously with that nick :silly:

6

: ) I’ve said that earlier I say it agin. stupid
idiot
I find nothing wrong with the name. I’m a slow learner and I make careless mistakes, my name depicts it. Secondly let us concentrate on what is being said rather than what is the ‘screen name’ of the person who is sayin it.
Btw would things change if my scree name would be ‘smartest, most intelligent person’
Be sane

7

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *

well ddue sher is an idiot..disgrace muslim.....just be replying or calling him on thread will not solve problem...muslims like him neeed taliban government..hhuh....plz dont call him here cuz i cannot stop myself to reply beac of his so much anti islam posts
[/QUOTE]

Chalna,, thanks for IDIOT comment. I still don't see any valid reason for your to see my posts anti islam. let me say this one thing here, I don't know about environment you were raised in, you are missing something very basic, behaviour of nature. It is only natural to question things. Most of my muslim friends strictly hold to the beleif that too much knowledge would turn people away from God so they restrict them self to a limit where they are even afraid to talk about religion and God because their knowledge of the topic is limited. when you asked them anything on the topic they immediately label you heretic and accuse you of blasphemy and some poeple would call you IDIOT. there are more non-muslims in this world than muslims. considering your veiws superior to others is not the way to secure peace. isn't it true that God (Although I have my doubts about God)wants everyone to live peacefully regardless of people's faith. cool down and think about it.

8

For centuries Muslims have been taught to believe that the Qur'an has been preserved in its original Arabic form since the beginning of time itself, and preserved intact from the period of the "sending down" of the book to Muhammad, right on down till the present. They have been taught that the text which we read now was uniquely inspired, in that there were no intermediary agents who could possibly pollute the integrity of the script.
At the same time they have also been taught that this suggested textual perfection of the book proves that the Qur'an must be the Word of God, as no one but Allah could have created and preserved such a perfected text. This sentiment has become so strongly established in the Muslim world that one will rarely find a Muslim scholar willing to make any critical analysis of its content or of its structure, as to do so would usually be detrimental to his or her health. However, when an analysis is made by a Western scholar upon the Qur'an, that analysis is roundly castigated as being biased from the outset, and even "satanic," and therefore, unworthy of a reply.

But that does not stop the analysis from being undertaken, for the Qur'an when held up to scrutiny finds itself lacking in many areas.

We find problems with its sources, its collation, its literary makeup, its supposed uniqueness, and problems even with its content. It is not difficult to find numerous contradictions within the Qur'an, a problem which Muslims and the Qur'an has attempted to alleviate by conveniently allowing for the 'law of abrogation.' But even more devastating towards the integrity of this supposed perfect 'divine book,' are the numerous errors which are found in its pages. It is therefore to those errors which we will now turn in our continuing quest to ascertain whether, indeed, the Qur'an can claim to be the true, and "perfect" Word of God, as Muslims have so often maintained since the very inception of their faith. Again I have to say that you have to be fair and unprejudiced in discussing this and don't get offended cos that is not intended here. I will point out to the verses that are considered to be erronious.

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *

Chalna,, thanks for IDIOT comment. I still don't see any valid reason for your to see my posts anti islam. let me say this one thing here, I don't know about environment you were raised in, you are missing something very basic, behaviour of nature. It is only natural to question things. Most of my muslim friends strictly hold to the beleif that too much knowledge would turn people away from God so they restrict them self to a limit where they are even afraid to talk about religion and God because their knowledge of the topic is limited. when you asked them anything on the topic they immediately label you heretic and accuse you of blasphemy and some poeple would call you IDIOT. there are more non-muslims in this world than muslims. considering your veiws superior to others is not the way to secure peace. isn't it true that God (Although I have my doubts about God)wants everyone to live peacefully regardless of people's faith. cool down and think about it.
[/QUOTE]

hahahahahahahaha oh man yaar seriously tell me 1 thing is this ur fault or ur parents????......now back to topic u said u have doubts on god.....ok tell me who is running the "game" of world...man always looks for unseen personality for help when he is in trouble..is no tht or will also neglect this too????......muslims r not afraid to talk ..ur problem is u have never met a single good muslim in ur life and never met a malvi scholar mufti wht eva....tell me u r seeing world who created tht world??? come on u said i use COMMON SENSE ...nwo where is ur commen sense???? just like a child who is birth by his mother ...this world has also created by allah..how this is possible these all things came into being and even the "life circle" of man is so even..one dies another comes..is not tht...food environement things for human pleasure all r even...is not tht???
now u still have problems with god....read quran man....again read quran..u dont know single thing abt islam and quran...u said quran is uncompleted and it is not according to man needs...ok tell me y by folllowing islam,musl8ims became then rulers of the world??? or u would also neglect tht???hahahaha....u r stupid even worst then stupid....quran validity haas been accepted by many many many wetern scholars....quran is still under research and u doubt on its validity?? then tell me y things tht have been said 1400 years r now proving right by science...or u will also neglect tht???..tell me y those people who read quran and follow it r so much mentally in peace???have any reason...
hahahaha..u will neglect everything man
grow up..actually u want islam to allow prostitudes strips clubs wine etc......my answer is enough to make u jackass but still ur enough "baysharam" then plz reply to my post

10

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *

hahahahahahahaha oh man yaar seriously tell me 1 thing is this ur fault or ur parents????......now back to topic u said u have doubts on god.....ok tell me who is running the "game" of world...man always looks for unseen personality for help when he is in trouble..is no tht or will also neglect this too????......muslims r not afraid to talk ..ur problem is u have never met a single good muslim in ur life and never met a malvi scholar mufti wht eva....tell me u r seeing world who created tht world??? come on u said i use COMMON SENSE ...nwo where is ur commen sense???? just like a child who is birth by his mother ...this world has also created by allah..how this is possible these all things came into being and even the "life circle" of man is so even..one dies another comes..is not tht...food environement things for human pleasure all r even...is not tht???
now u still have problems with god....read quran man....again read quran..u dont know single thing abt islam and quran...u said quran is uncompleted and it is not according to man needs...ok tell me y by folllowing islam,musl8ims became then rulers of the world??? or u would also neglect tht???hahahaha....u r stupid even worst then stupid....quran validity haas been accepted by many many many wetern scholars....quran is still under research and u doubt on its validity?? then tell me y things tht have been said 1400 years r now proving right by science...or u will also neglect tht???..tell me y those people who read quran and follow it r so much mentally in peace???have any reason...
hahahaha..u will neglect everything man
grow up..actually u want islam to allow prostitudes strips clubs wine etc......my answer is enough to make u jackass but still ur enough "baysharam" then plz reply to my post
[/QUOTE]

Ask one of your mates in this forum to translate your post into something legible and I will reply.. now it is time to go to my local Pub,, bye.

11

I think sher is quite cute in an intese-fundo-im-so-much-more-learned-than-u kinda way.....hmmm...i wonder where i have seen those type before...OMG he an HT

12

Since this is a public forum, so I think all replies should stand for now, however, kindly try to (#1) stay on the topic, and (#2) lay off personal insults.

Thanks.

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
well ddue sher is an idiot..disgrace muslim.....just be replying or calling him on thread will not solve problem...
[/quote]

'well ddue' you might be extreemly smart but please keep your genious viewpoints to your self and let me talk to my brother. I dont want to solve any problems here. I know what I'm upto.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
muslims like him neeed taliban government..hhuh....plz dont call him here cuz i cannot stop myself to reply beac of his so much anti islam posts
[/QUOTE]
All of us need the taliban government. He hold his viewpoints and there are reasons which led him to hold such view points. If you cant stand him to ask what he does. Please let others handle it.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
I don't know about environment you were raised in, you are missing something very basic, behaviour of nature. It is only natural to question things.
[/quote]

A friend of mine was when young. He went to the Imam of the mosque and asked him "why should I belive in Allah [swt]" The Imam rather then helping him told him to go home and never return to the mosque and not to mention alot of insulting things which he had to say just for one simple reason. My friend was having 'basic, behaviour of nature'. See thats why I wanted to you come and discuss thing in this thread. I really like your questions. Atleast for one reason that they help me to learn and understand many things.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
Most of my muslim friends strictly hold to the beleif that too much knowledge would turn people away from God so they restrict them self to a limit where they are even afraid to talk about religion and God because their knowledge of the topic is limited.
[/quote]

Some of my very close friends are like this. I know what you are living through. See I'm here to talk to you about what I belive as the only pure and authentic religion in this world.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
when you asked them anything on the topic they immediately label you heretic and accuse you of blasphemy and some poeple would call you IDIOT.
[/quote]

See, the lack of knowledge leed them to do so. I'm not knowledgeable my self. But once I was just like you, asking things for which people would curse me. The only reason for their such attitude was becuase they had didnt know the answeres.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
there are more non-muslims in this world than muslims. considering your veiws superior to others is not the way to secure peace. isn't it true that God (Although I have my doubts about God)wants everyone to live peacefully regardless of people's faith. cool down and think about it.
[/quote]
You see Allah [swt] who created us wants us to live the best life. No doubt for that he has given us the books to follow. The Quran and the Sunnah [hadith]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
hahahahahahahaha oh man yaar seriously tell me 1 thing is this ur fault or ur parents????......
[/quote]
Can you please restrict yourself to the individual and not involve the parents. That would be very kind of you.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
now back to topic u said u have doubts on god.....ok tell me who is running the "game" of world...man always looks for unseen personality for help when he is in trouble..is no tht or will also neglect this too????
[/quote]
You speach tells me this is the first time you are handling such question. Relax, it might be more complex than you think.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
......muslims r not afraid to talk ..ur problem is u have never met a single good muslim in ur life and never met a malvi scholar mufti wht eva....
[/quote]
Difine good muslim and tell us how many have you med. Define 'molvi scholar' and define 'mufti'. I would really want to know the answer from the man who knows alot. Please do let me know.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
tell me u r seeing world who created tht world??? come on u said i use COMMON SENSE ...nwo where is ur commen sense???? just like a child who is birth by his mother ...
[/quote]
You talk lose, setting trap for yourself. Can you please let others handle it. I would really appreciate your silent observation.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
this world has also created by allah..
[/quote]
Infact it was the universes created by Allah [swt] not the world alone.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
how this is possible these all things came into being and even the "life circle" of man is so even..one dies another comes..is not tht...food environement things for human pleasure all r even...is not tht???
now u still have problems with god....
[/quote]
Cool down brother. Infurious replies normally leed to unwanted situations.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
read quran man....again read quran..u dont know single thing abt islam and quran...u said quran is uncompleted and it is not according to man needs...
[/quote]
Do you know Quran? I mean if you do I really respect you alot. Because I'm just a learner.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
ok tell me y by folllowing islam,
[/quote]
So you want him to leave that or what? besides when did he said he 'follows' it. He said clearly he has his doubts.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
musl8ims became then rulers of the world??? or u would also neglect tht???hahahaha....u r stupid even worst then stupid....quran validity haas been accepted by many many many wetern scholars....
[/quote]
So, what makes you convinced about the 'validity' of Quran? is it the westren scholars. because this is the only thing I see in your reply.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
quran is still under research and u doubt on its validity?? then tell me y things tht have been said 1400 years r now proving right by science...or u will also neglect tht???..tell me y those people who read quran and follow it r so much mentally in peace???have any reason...
hahahaha..u will neglect everything man
[/quote]
He might be looking for a conviction of his heart. I found it the hard way. He might be reach there. But if you keep insuling him he may feel offended.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
grow up..actually u want islam to allow prostitudes strips clubs wine etc......
[/quote]
This is your personal perception. he never said the things you have written above. You are accusing him now. Please avoid that.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
my answer is enough to make u jackass but still ur enough "baysharam" then plz reply to my post
[/quote]
Your speach depict your family background. What kind of man would use such foul language.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
I think sher is quite cute in an intese-fundo-im-so-much-more-learned-than-u kinda way.....hmmm...i wonder where i have seen those type before...OMG he an HT
[/quote]

I seriously dont feel that way.

14

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
For centuries Muslims have been taught to believe that the Qur'an has been preserved in its original Arabic form since the beginning of time itself, and preserved intact from the period of the "sending down" of the book to Muhammad, right on down till the present. They have been taught that the text which we read now was uniquely inspired, in that there were no intermediary agents who could possibly pollute the integrity of the script.
[/quote]

right.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
At the same time they have also been taught that this suggested textual perfection of the book proves that the Qur'an must be the Word of God, as no one but Allah could have created and preserved such a perfected text. This sentiment has become so strongly established in the Muslim world that one will rarely find a Muslim scholar willing to make any critical analysis of its content or of its structure, as to do so would usually be detrimental to his or her health.
[/quote]
Ever since the Quran was sent down there have been may people who have done alot of critical analysis, this book has no errors no contradictions. : )

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
However, when an analysis is made by a Western scholar upon the Qur'an, that analysis is roundly castigated as being biased from the outset, and even "satanic," and therefore, unworthy of a reply.
[/quote]

You see now you are being biased. You are now speaking as if the Muslims didnt wanted to reply to their criticism. You find the so called 'errors' which the so caled 'westren scholars' have found I'll try to reply.
Point number two: My brother doesnt realise that it only in the recent history that the 'western' people have became in power. Before them there were many supper powers, stronger than the current western powers. You see when the Romans were in power you would only find the 'Roman way of treatements' Now when the west is in power you find thier way of treatement to any illness. I gave this example just to make you realise it not only the west but many other nations have tried to find the errors in the Quran. None has been able to find any, nor will one be able to find any. Because there is no error.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
But that does not stop the analysis from being undertaken, for the Qur'an when held up to scrutiny finds itself lacking in many areas.
[/quote]
Can you please state the things which make you think Quran is week in these areas. You are actually saying things hypothetically now.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
We find problems with its sources, its collation, its literary makeup, its supposed uniqueness, and problems even with its content. It is not difficult to find numerous contradictions within the Qur'an, a problem which Muslims and the Qur'an has attempted to alleviate by conveniently allowing for the 'law of abrogation.'
[/quote]
You are mistaken on this. Please quote what you think is wrong. I would be more than happy to reply.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
But even more devastating towards the integrity of this supposed perfect 'divine book,' are the numerous errors which are found in its pages. It is therefore to those errors which we will now turn in our continuing quest to ascertain whether, indeed, the Qur'an can claim to be the true, and "perfect" Word of God, as Muslims have so often maintained since the very inception of their faith.
[/quote]

I say again next time you think there is s'thing wrong with Quran 'quote' it. Point number two. You see the think you are pointing out I'm sure are not your own findings. You must have read them or were told by someone about them. Now my Question is why do you believe in those who say Quran has errors and not those who say Quran does not have any error. Arnt you being prejudice towards one of the group.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
Again I have to say that you have to be fair and unprejudiced in discussing this and don't get offended cos that is not intended here. I will point out to the verses that are considered to be erronious.
[/QUOTE]

And please do mention the source which tells you about the so called 'errornious' parts of the Quran. It would help me understand more the things I'm dealing with.
Please answer all the things asked individually.

15

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *

Ask one of your mates in this forum to translate your post into something legible and I will reply.. now it is time to go to my local Pub,, bye.
[/QUOTE]

First request is denied. Cannot be done. Sher bro have a Double Diamond for me.

16

Re: I invite Sher

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * But before the debate you'll have to give your introduction. I would like to know your religious and social background.
[/QUOTE]

It's like going for a job interview.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * **Muslim Brothers & Sisters*
[/QUOTE]

I hear you brother.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * I would really like all the brothers and sister help me with it in my PMs.
[/QUOTE]

Just put a Qur'an and the 6 most popular books of the Hadiths infront of you.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * I dont have much knowledge of Islam but all I want is that **Sher* should be answered.
[/QUOTE]

He doesn't want to learn, if he did, he would ask not argue.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * Dont think of me as an arrogant man who is proud of what he knows.
[/QUOTE]

No, No, I have alot of respect for my wise brother.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * Pray for me. I know Allah [swt] will give me strength and wisdom to depict islam in a proper way.
[/QUOTE]

Inshallah. May God help you on your pious mission.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * Surely Allah [swt] knows best.
[/QUOTE]

No doubt about it.

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * I find nothing wrong with the name.
[/QUOTE]

There are alot of other dispicable words in the dictionary. But it doesn't mean, if they appear in the dictionary it's ok for them to be used inappropriately.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * I'm a slow learner
[/QUOTE]

You'll have to do something abou that.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * and I make careless mistakes,
[/QUOTE]

Ooooooh, you said it.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * my name depicts it.
[/QUOTE]

If you know when a mistake is a mistake then maybe you should try to fix it.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * Secondly let us concentrate on what is being said rather than what is the 'screen name' of the person who is sayin it.
[/QUOTE]

It's a distraction though.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: * Btw would things change if my scree name would be 'smartest, most intelligent person'
[/QUOTE]

Yes. A good name brings good intentions. Prophet Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in the Hadiths said, when the soul is taken to the first Heaven from the body in the grave, the Angels on the way greet him by all the good names he was called with while alive. (Book - What Happens After Death)

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: * isn't it true that God (Although I have my doubts about God)wants everyone to live peacefully regardless of people's faith.
[/QUOTE]

Allah Almighty in the Qur'an says over and over again. "I only created man and demon to worship me".

Your point is secondary, not primary. When you die, you'll be questioned by the Angels Munkar and Nakir.

They'll ask you, who's your God, your Prophet and your Religion. They won't at that time ask you, how many millions of people did you help, how many just wars did you fight or how many people you helped to convert to your religion etc. etc.

There is also a way of questioning people. A nice way, a polite way. Going around calling people 'blind' or referring to them as not intelligent is offcourse insulting and provocative.

19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: * quran validity haas been accepted by many many many wetern scholars....quran is still under research and u doubt on its validity?? then tell me y things tht have been said 1400 years r now proving right by science...or u will also neglect tht???..
[/QUOTE]

There are alot of non-muslims scholars, scientists and professors who have spent years studying the Qur'an and then eventually accepting it as the true word of God. This has been happening for the last 14 centuries.

20

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Serendipiti: *
I think sher is quite cute in an intese-fundo-im-so-much-more-learned-than-u kinda way.....
[/QUOTE]

Lollllllllllllllllllllllllllls. You took the words right out of my mouth bro.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Serendipiti: *hmmm... i wonder where i have seen those type before... OMG he an HT
[/QUOTE]

What's a HT?