I have a serious question

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Alright so this is serious

Farz karo
There is this person, doesnt lie, steal, cheat, is good to other people, helps others and blah blah blah all that other goody stuff

This person also believes in One God, prays to Him, asks from Him and doesnt do shirk waghera waghera

here comes the problem
this person refuses to believe certain stuff in Islam
stuff that isnt harmful or it couldnt be considered a sin if not followed

Would you call them a Muslim ?

I am aware that islam is a complete religion
if you want to be a muslim you gotta follow
I have heard that it often

but will you call somebody a Non Muslim just cause they dont wear hijab, or they furiously think against the 4 marriages, against the muslim divorce system,

Will such a person automatically register for being a Non Muslim

My answer N O
but people get confused by this ‘follow it totally or you arent a muslim’ theory

some people get confused cause they do consider themselves to be good people but since they dont understand certain stuff bout islam they think they are committing a sin

I have rambled enough

2

Anchal salaamun,
Name me a single “MUSLIM” who follows every sinlge rule as it should be.
We all humans and we all make mistakes.
Jahan tukk koi cheez na mannay ka taluq hay tou depends what you are confused about.
Three things are a MUST to have a faith on
a)Allah and his oneness
b) His Nabbi (Hazoor pbuh)
c) His Kitaab (quran paak)

If you have any doubts regarding any other minor rule/princiapl then it could be studied in the light of quran or sunnat-e-prophet. e.g. purdah/chador/hijab/marriage factors etc etc.

Allah is raheem and kareem aaur insha allah if we try our best to stay on sirat-e-mutaqeem then we will be forgiven. We are so lucky to be in prophet muhamma (pbuh), allah’s mehboob’s ummat.

catch’ya mate

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

(i know you are from aussie)
Insha allah

3

well Anchal I dont think that if one is not following a complete religion then he/she will become non-mulim...theres a different thing that whos bad and good muslim but non-muslim is totally different thing...if one doesnt wear hijab it doesnt mean that u start calling her non-muslim i dunno about divorce and other conditions u've just mentioned, but the bottom line is that Islam is not demanding or in other words strict which ppl have made it!

PS: correct me plz if I am wrong here

** Of all the things I've lost^^^I miss my MIND the most!**

4

i believe you are confusing between things here. There is a difference between not doing things but believing in them and not believing altogether. If you believe in hijab or the permission to marry more than one wife then you and dont practice them, then in the first instance you are sinful and in the second you are not. If on the other hand you dont believe in hijab or marrying more than one, than you are sinful for not believing in the edicts of the Quran. That is serious because by confiming to the religion, you undertake to believe in the Book. By not doing so in certain instances, you are parting with part of your eeman. Now what constitutes this parting of eeman is a question for you.

May we all be forgiven for our sins, intentional or otherwise. Ameen

5

Non-compliance of the components of Islam doesnt make you a non-muslim. Their refusal does.

Not wearing a hijab wont make a girl a non-muslim. But her saying that hijab is 'wrong' will. A person not wanting to marry 4 times wont make him a non-muslim. But his denial/refusal of this right under the right circumstances will.

The bottom line is, we have to accept Islam as a code for our entire lives, and should know that all the components of Islam are there for a reason. We dont have to follow all components under all circumstances, but to deny their utility, and term it 'wrong' or 'incorrect' is equal to negating Allah's commands, and questioning his logic, which makes us disbelievers.

Anything thats included in Islam as a component or a law has been described aplenty by Allah SWT in the Quran. Apart from shahadat and salat (namaz), there is no other component in which Allah SWT hasnt included escape clauses. Bottom line, Islam is not a drill. Its a very accomodating code of life.

6

Powerful stuff

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

I will reply later.

7

.

[This message has been edited by Ghazal (edited February 26, 2001).]

8

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
Non-compliance of the components of Islam doesnt make you a non-muslim. Their refusal does.

[/quote]

Arent they refusing when they arent practicing?

9

Arent they refusing when they arent practicing?

I wouldnt say so. A person missing his namaz out of laziness is not the same as one who misses his namaz because he thinks its not neccessary.

10

I agree with Akif, very well said.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

11

Akif and Papa are on the right track, and Akif gave a very perfect answer to this question.

Non-compliance of the components of Islam doesnt make you a non-muslim. Their refusal does.<<<<<<<<<<<

12

Well, I agree, but I am unsure whether the ‘refusal’ to ‘believe’ puts a person in the category of non-muslim.

Remember in Quran it says: "Amantu Billah-e- Wamalaikat-e…" - Sura-e-Baqra

meaning: “Imaan (faith) is believing in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Prophets, The Day of Judgement, and His Ability to bring good and the Bad.”

These are the Seven criteria for Imaan.

So, if anyone doesn’t believe in any of one of these seven, yup, strike him/her out of the circle of Islam.

Then, there is sharia. Hijab, interest (riba), music, photography, eating meats by christians, looking at non-mehram women, growing a beard for men … all these are covered under the rules of sharia. The rules of sharia together with the components of imaan make Islam a ‘deen’ - i.e. a way of life.

Now, for components of imaan, there is little difference of opinion, because it is in the Quran.

Even though rules of sharia may have differences of opinion, but the discussion here is not on that, but whether if someone does not agree to any of those rules, is he out of Islam?… hmmm… thats a serious decision we are making… and frankly, I am unsure.

My take on this is to look at the rules of sharia as to what makes a person a muslim and what makes him a non-muslim. Its not our opinion or our perception, but these are taught to us by the Prophet (SAWW). Shirk is one sin which can toss a person out of Islam. Not believing in the Prophet (SAWW) is another. Lately, many scholars have agreed that if someone does not believe in finality of the prophethood of Prophet (SAWW) is also out of Islam. By this conjecture someone can say that not following the teachings of the Prophet (SAWW) is also a serious enough sin, I would say ‘yes’… but will that make the person out of Islam…? Hmmm… I really don’t wanna say that

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

13

When you believe in the basic tenets of islam,lets say First is Tawheed, you won’t do or try to do any thing which is against islam.
Being a muslim is not just believing(most of the religions in world believe in one God)but practicing it also, thats what segregates muslims from other religions.Otherwise I dont't see any difference betwen religions.
So lets come to the point, I quoted example of Tawheed, so you won’t do any thing which Allah does’nt like or forbids it.When your whole life is pivoted around islam, you won’t confused, as allah says, I guess you by your intent.
I see and observe most of the muslims doing all the non-muslim things but honoring themselves that they are “Ummat Muhammadi” or b/o muslim being they are still better than other ppl, that sucks.don’t you see and obsewrve that, be honest.
You live once and you will be accountable for every act you do intentionally.If it angers almighty God, you r responsible for it.
take care.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/cool.gif

14

Whatever is narrated in the Quran, is mandated for Muslims. Refusal to believe in what Allah SWT says comes to me as disbelief. Sunnat and ahadees are not covered under this definition.

Not acting upon the commandments of the Quran is a weakness of faith.
Not believing in the commandments of the Quran is absence of faith.

We can not go through the Quran and sift through the commands, choosing which ones we agree with, and which ones we disagree with. Disagreeing is not an option. Because if we do, we are disagreeing with Allah SWT.

And Pristine, the prefix "Amanto" precedes many ayaat in the Quran, and is not restricted to the ayat u mentioned. In some ayaat, there are upto 10 criteria mentioned. So the list is not limited to the 7 u mentioned.

15

hey if a person is performing all the goood deeeds wagera, n he/she knows that this not allowed in Islam so shouldnt do it, regarding the Hijaab if u know ke a woman is not allowed to be seen by no man, except for for his husband, dad n bros, so u cant simply say ke nahin karoge to koi faraq nahin parega!!!!

~ mera Junoon, meri DIL KI BAAT hai!!!!

16

Now I will go back to the original question, and examples quoted by Anchal.

Hijaab: Orders for hijaab are in the quran but the actual description of hijaab is provided by the sunnah of the Prophet (SAWW) and the scholars of islam. So there can be a difference of opinion. The generally acceptable definition of hijab for women is ‘everything to be covered except face, hands and feet’. Some may not agree to this. So can we throw a person out of Islam for not covering her hair completely, because she doesn’t believe this to be required?

Four marriages: The permission is in Quran. Many scholars interpret it as a blanket approval. Some say, it is permissible only if you can be ‘just’ to all wives (in all matters except emotional attachment). Some interpret this as permissible only in times of war. Each has their own daleels/evidence. Some of these opinions may be wrong. Do you cast out a person from Islam due to believing a different opinion than what you believe in?

Divorce system of Islam: This is mentioned in Quran (Sura-e-Nisa). The clear guidelines are, however, again provided by interpretation of quran and sunnah by the scholars. There are MANY MANY differences of opinion. One group says saying ‘talaq’ three times in one sitting enforces talaq. Another says that no, talaq must be stated in three different sittings over a period of time. Its an extremely complex issue. Then an opinion allows women to have the right of divorce too (as against khula’a). Do you cast a person out for believing a different opinion?

Point being … details of everyday life as defined in Islam are not black and white. There are gray areas. So its best to be careful, rather than judgemental. Thats how I think about it.

However, in matters of imaan, there are no relaxations. You don’t believe them, you are out! Also in faraidh (Mandatory). If you don’t believe in them, you are out. If a person does not pray namaaz, he is sinful (some scholars cast him as non-muslim too), but if he believes offering namaaz is not required. Out! This is just an example, and is not all-inclusive.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

17

Akif.. please share the 10 criteria of imaan, if you know the reference. 7 is about the max I knew.

18

Just to keep the records straight I must mention that pillars of imaan are 6 not seven as generally believed. I used to count them seven as well. It is mentioned in Imaan e Mufasil:

Amantu billahi wa malaikatihi, wa kutubihi, warasolehi, wal yaum il akhiri, wal qadr-e khairihi wa sharihi min allahi taala wal baas e baad al maut.

believing in life after death is actually believing in the day of judgement.

Now coming back to the topic, I think Akif's answer is quite comprehensive if one try to understand it.

I had a chance to speak to a Faqeeh from Iraq and he said if a guy doesn't have a beard then he doesn't become Kafir as it could be possible that he wants to have it but for some reason he can't. Similarly, if one doesn't understand the concept of polygamy, hijab or islamic divorce system then it is completely different to totally denying it. I didn't understand a lot of other things including above and used to think that Islam is not in favour of women. I always questioned it and when I met knowledgable people I started to understand why things didn't make sense.

Last saturday, Dr Jamal Badawi, a scholar from Canada mentioned this point that in Quran it is mentioned that one of the sign of Qiyamat is increasing number of women, even the ratio of men to women would be 1:50 and he said we have seen this on a smaller scale in Bosnia, Kosovo, Iran and so on. Some people might jump and say that then 50 women should have been allowed but the ratio means a man will be supporting wife, sister, mother and daugher.

Hence, the idea of polygamy is to provide support to women not to fulfil one's sexual desires as believed in the west. The west doesn't have a case anyway as they have another form of Polygamy when they have non marital sex prevalent in their society.

I think I have talked a lot so I will shut up for the time being.

19

[quote]
Originally posted by Pristine:
Akif.. please share the 10 criteria of imaan, if you know the reference. 7 is about the max I knew.
[/quote]

A lot has been written while I was busy in writing my post. Anyhow, I think Akif is talking about criteria which might be different to the pillars of Imaan. I am quite sure that in order for your imaan to be correct u have to believe in those 6 pillars which are mentioned above.

20

By the way, I totally agree on major point.

There is a big distinction between following a genuine opinion, different from ours. Compared to someone who simply refuses to believe that these rules are required by Islam, and that we are not required to consider them at all, as part of our being a muslim.

Islam, is definitely a way of life, not just a religion.