Sehrysh, with due respect - before we give such advice, its always safe to keep in mind that we are reading a perspective. Facts + perspective become realities. More clouded the perspectives are, more away the realities are from actual fact.
you just cannot advice a family to split up just by reading what she thinks about her dad.
I knew people would object to my advice, thinking it was self-serving and an act of betrayal to the father who has housed and fed them - which is PRECISELY why I asked what you would do if it was your daughter or sister who was being physically abused and threatened with violence by the husband/father and people from whom money had been borrowed.
Allah na karey, you were in this situation, but would you allow her to remain in that situation? I think not. You would remove them from the immediate danger and then look for a solution. And I'll quote myself:
Harsh as it sounds, it might easier to help your father at a distance rather than continuing to live with him.
I'm not saying abandon her father, but do it from a safe position.
Without a doubt! But the stigma will most likely prevent the mom from getting outside help. Looks like a typical narcissist + co-dependent relationship, the mom is never going to leave.
I hope it's not the case. I guess I feel so strongly because I have seen pakistani women who have had the strength to leave situations like this.
I knew people would object to my advice, thinking it was self-serving and an act of betrayal to the father who has housed and fed them - which is PRECISELY why I asked what you would do if it was your daughter or sister who was being physically abused and threatened with violence by the husband/father and people from whom money had been borrowed.
Allah na karey, you were in this situation, but would you allow her to remain in that situation? I think not. You would remove them from the immediate danger and then look for a solution. And I'll quote myself:
I'm not saying abandon her father, but do it from a safe position.
The mind that creates the problem is not the mind that can can find the solution, so if I am the father in this situation then I am not the right person to find the solution. That is why I recommended counseling for him. That is what he needs. His problems are not relationship problems. His problems are financial and people in his situation with such extreme financial problems are a threat to their own life. You just cant leave a person like that.
The mind that creates the problem is not the mind that can can find the solution, so if I am the father in this situation then I am not the right person to find the solution. That is why I recommended counseling for him. That is what he needs. His problems are not relationship problems. His problems are financial and people in his situation with such extreme financial problems are a threat to their own life. You just cant leave a person like that.
Then we agree in part (the father needs professional help) and disagree in part (whether the rest of the family needs to be close at hand to the father as he seeks counselling).
And as you said at the outset, with all due respect, on the latter point we will continue to disagree.
I really appreciate every 1's advice.
To answer a few ppl questions, he wasn't always like this, and i honestly don;t believe hes a wicked person, he's such so bad at financial plannning and got into this spiral of debt, now he is at such levels of desperation that he only swears and uses violence to face up to it.
my parents have been married for 33 years, and its only in the past 5 years that he has become violent, he was a brilliant dad and still tries to be. BUt the desperation of the situation means its a boxing macth between my mum and dad on a daily basis, mum hits him back too, ive pleaded with them to get professional help,
and my mums family including her parents have threatened to force my mum to leave him, my mum isnt some paindoo women who thinks her honour will be dented if she leaves him, its really not like that, she's applied to the council to get help for housing.
The problem is my dad became bankrupt when we were last made homeless he then bought stuff in mums name forging her signature, so now my mum wil go bankrupt.
We have asked the local council to help and they know i have younger siblings, bu they have said that until the court officially announces mums barnkruptcy they can;t do much at the moment which is very frustrating!!
I am still thankful to Allah for alot of things and certainly dont think i have the worst life or anything like that, but i would please request for all the gupshup brothers and sister to pray to Allah swt for me and my family
i try and helo towards buying groceries as much as possible but im still young and i earn peanuts, hes even taken loans in my name without my knowledge, and if i dont pay up im in trouble :(
(
Does anybody have an idea as to who the OP should contact to ensure that her father is unable to take loans in her name? If it's possible to do this...that's at least one less worry/fear to be consumed by. And I'm not sure what the consequences of that would be (if it'd get your dad into trouble, etc). If anyone can shed some light on this...or maybe it's a possibility that you can discuss with your mother/siblings?
The money that your dad has borrowed needs to be paid back regardless of him not wanting to admit that he ever borrowed it. Your nana probably doesn't want to talk to your dad........but he'd be more open to talking to your mom. Could your Nana and maybe your mom's siblings (Khala, Mamoo, etc.) lend her money that she can start paying back to family friends? With close family (like one's parents and siblings) there is greater tolerance and flexibility in the sense that they may not even ask you to pay them back. You and your mom decide....who should be paid first....and then pay them back. That can help get some respect back and soften people toward you...and even if they don't...they still need to be paid. Doing so might help bring some peace of mind to you. Before you do this, can you and your mom try to find out how much money was borrowed? Talk to family members and discuss options of getting/earning/saving money.
I don't know how effective getting in touch with a consolidated credit company would be? That's a possibility you may want to discuss/look into. Request family members (Nana, etc) not to loan money to your father. When you start paying back the people your dad borrowed from, tell them not lend him money either. That's not going to help him.
The entire family..including extended relatives if need be (from your mom's side....from your dad's side)....can approach your dad....maybe at the same time and try to have a calm discussion with him (power in numbers idea). Maybe seeing all the family before him...and hearing what his own children have to say...might jolt him back to reality. They can bring up that he NEEDS to go to a therapist and get some counseling....ask him why he's doing this....get an understanding of what is going through his mind, etc. If need be....have an imam there...who can guide from an Islamic perspective. After the family meeting......if your dad continues on his path and shows no desire to make the effort to change.............then I don't think separation (not necessarily a divorce) is such a bad idea. Your mom already feels unsafe around him as he has shown that he can be physically abusive. And with some people.................they don't realize the value of what they had (in this case family) until they lose it. I know that it's difficult to do....I know that there are two sides to a story....but tougher consequences can work sometimes. But try the less drastic one first (family discussion on a larger scale).
We have asked the local council to help and they know i have younger siblings, bu they have said that until the court officially announces mums barnkruptcy they can;t do much at the moment which is very frustrating!!
If your mom goes to a womens refuge she will get housed a lot quicker, if not prepare to live in dirty bed and breakfast the council will allocate for you untill a house is available. Make sure your dad does not get a mortgage in your name without your knowledge.
Edit after reading Red velvet:
What the OP needs to do (if she lives in UK) is write a letter to all the credit reference agencies, she needs to state that she is concerned about possible ID theft and that she wants to have a password attached to her details, she should state the password in the letter. Then when a loasn company does a credit search the screen will 'flash' with a note that she has a password and whoever is performing the credit search will have to ask for her password, either in writing of over the phone. As long as she does not tell her dad the password he wont be able to do anything.
An Islamic intervention Nice idea btw, as the OP said, her father was not always like this, years of spiralling debt and business failures have brought him to this point, he is probably desperate and at breaking point which is causing the abusiveness and his wife and children must make sure he gets help, even if they have to go down the separation route first.
OP... there are quite a few options for you. Firstly, you need to take care of the issue involving your dad taking out loans in your name. Do you want to be in debt? If you don't take care of this, your credit will be affected, thus affecting your chances at future jobs, finding housing, and getting loans for your education.
You can do what stoppit tried to imply... leave your dad. But maybe your family should leave him with some help. Get him counseling. He should get a job, even if it is an hourly job. Have the money go to a savings account. Have you considered gambling as a possibility? How did the money run out... was it due to only failed businesses or is there a chance he gambled it away? There has to be some depression too.
According to your post, your mom seems to have a strong mind and lots of support. She has her father and family she could depend on financially. You said she hits your dad back and that she would leave him if she wanted too, she's not that weak. I don't support abuse... but maybe you could consider staying with him too. I just hear of stories in the news about how a father lost his job or went bankrupt then committed suicide. That just scares me. Like I wrote before, get him help. You don't know what it's like to be in his place, to try to support his wife and kids yet fail at it so many times. That's lots of pressure and it must be putting a toll on him mentally. That might also be the reason why he isn't doing anything at his job.
Does your mom work? Your siblings? There are people who work hourly jobs and live in apartments. Life is tough, but they make it work somehow. Every cent can add up. Declare bankruptcy, then if you all put some effort, maybe you can at least have some regular amount of money coming in to start over.
Your dad seems to be under a lots of financial pressure with no one on his side. It might be beneficial for him to go through some counseling. Neverthelss, you need to judge him on his intentions and not his actions. Is he doing all this because he is greedy and a dishonest person or he is a sincere family man with zero financial planning sense? Its up to you to find out.
Protect yourself, your siblings and mother first so there is no additional damage. He needs to realize first and foremost that he CANNOT raise his hand on his wife and abuse the mother of his children! Has your mother ever asked for any religious intervention? Start there when it comes to the violence. If it persists…I would simply let him sit in a cell one night to let him think about his family and his actions towards them. I know it sounds mean but abuse is abuse and it needs to stop. There is no excuse for violence.
As someone referenced earlier, start looking into your credit and whats become of it. Attach a password to your credentials. Do the same for your mother immediately so no further damage can be done.
Help him. Get him the help he needs…therapy because I can bet your dad is clinically depressed or headed that way. He needs financial counseling and also a way to pay off his debts (credit/loan consolidation) and then just manage one payment to the lender every month. You can help him with that.
Your dad doesn't wanna take any responsibility, but more over he is an abusive husband and a father. Just cut him off completely until he seeks some sort of help i.e counseling. If he hits your mother again simply call the police because an abuser doesn't realize he is abusing someone until he/she faces some consequences. It also seems to me that he always got what he wanted, thus this behavior. This is sort of an intervention, someone has to tell him to seek help or else his family has nothing to do with him anymore.
tweety_pie, my prayers are with you and your family. Your father need as much help as you guys do but that comes 2nd. AT this point you should be thinking of saving whatever you have and then try to repair the damage done.
First and far most, you need to convey to your father somehow that you will not tolerate any more physical abuse of your mom
Secondly, you should check your credit once a month and let creditor/banks know that there is no one authorize to take decisions on your behalf.
Finally, try to get some help to your father. You have mentioned that he was a wonderful dad till 5 years ago. He might be the case of financial disaster. His intentions might be right but he can not see any way out of the hole. See if you can make him take some tharapy lessons. Those lessons sometimes changes the world upside down. Once people are in depression, their decision making abilities get effected drastically and they keep on making mistakes over mistake. Unfortunately this happens more with the people who love and care about their family.
Okay I know of a family back in Pakistan, gone thru exact same situation. They are four sisters, and one brother. The mother, and kids really worked hard to get their feet back on the ground. The eldest two sisters found theirselves jobs in a factory, and the boy who was younger to sisters, started doing a part time job after his school. (Mind u it was the first time in their family any woman had stepped outside home for job.) Mom started stitching clothes at home and knit sweaters for ppl. she was not educated, not even primary pass. In short they found the ways to generate money on their own. Everyone in that family played his/her role. They didnt abondoned their father but they were least bother abt him. Father would come to home whenever he would like, they never said anything to him. I remember the son looking for his dad when they wont see him for few days. One day the father told them to get out of his house as he has sold it to someone to pay some debt. This family moved to a very very small rented home. The sisters n the brother continued their jobs. Obviously they were not highly paid but at least they didnt have to spread their hands to anyone for basic necessties of life. Not even to their own father.
The purpose of telling u all this is that you are all one family. I understand that father is supposed to provide necessties of life to his kids but what if he is unable or failed to do so? For whatever reasons. I dont know how old are you and ur siblings, but you all need to take some action rather than waiting for some miracle to happen. Even Allah helps those who help themselves. Dont rely on ur relatives, think of the ways u can do urself. I am sure you and others have to sacrifice alot during the whole process of re-stabilizing urselves but u ll feel paid for all that once u regain ur home peace.
Posters have given u some very good points to take the start with. Like security measures u should take immidiately so ur dad cannot take further loans on ur or any body else’s name. Good n bad times come on everyone and almost all families go thru bad times at least once. My family had gone thru it too and i remember how my father would go mad at us on petty things just coz he was mentally disturbed. But we all, from youngest at home to mom, we all stood with him and we all came out of that bad phase successfully. Today he says Allah has given him five sons and not five daughters. He asks for our opinion in every minor and major matter.
One more thing, do say ur prayers regulary and ask for Allah’s help. He works in mysterious ways. Read Surah Muzamil without miss everyday at least once. InshAllah all will be good
tweetie prayers with you
but please don't hate your father, no matter how bad he is, we all pray that may Allah guides him and shows him the right way. like everyone said he need's help with regards to financial counseling and you also admitted that he wasn't like that before, it was just since last 5 years... before that he's been and tried to be a good father else you would have never mentioned it. I agree with TLK, he needs help. I know its easy to say but have faith and don't loose hope. earning peanuts is far better than earning nothing.
I feel sorry for you. I am sorry but i so want to punch your father in the face!
You are not in pakistan, and your father abuses and hits your mom! Why don;t you call police?
Put him in jail, that way you guys will be in peace, he won;t be able to borrow anymore money.
SInce he is not helping in anything good, i'm sure it won;t have a bad effect on you guys, and it may give you and
him some time to come up with a solution.
Nice idea btw, as the OP said, her father was not always like this, years of spiralling debt and business failures have brought him to this point, he is probably desperate and at breaking point which is causing the abusiveness and his wife and children must make sure he gets help, even if they have to go down the separation route first.