I came to GS to learn about Muslims

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

"you defend the deprivation of a student's funding based not on his merit"

No Ravage, I no longer felt like GIVING to those students who would not appreciate it. Students do not "qualify", for scholarships, scholarships are "created" by caring and giving Americans. 70% of scholarships have nothing to do with the government (other than tax breaks), they are created by alumni who are GIVING back to kids that they believe deserve assistance. The DESERVE word is important. Because DESERVE in your mind is soley based on academic merit. In the mind of the GIVER, deserve also implies that the recipient is at least somewhat greatful and thankful for the opportunity. The posts on Gupshup exposed that at least SOME kids believe that scholarships are a scam, and that they DESERVE money, and they beleive that AMERICANS have little or nothing to do with it... There were even a few arrogant little pricks who implied that the GIVERS needed them to complete research and that America was dependent on THEM. Somehow your sense of entitlement is completely twisted and backward.

From another standpoint you are completely backward. The mechanism by which students get scholarships, and through which Universities are built has been an effort supported by the government for centuries. The same govenment that is hated by you guys has had a FOREIGN POLICY for centuries that encouraged the people of the world to come here and study, and dang the people of America even paid for a great deal of it! Blind hatred is what I am railing against. Everyday there is some idiot on Gupshup who is accusing the US of being baby killers, rapist, thieves, criminals, and the cause of all evil on the earth. Then some kid has the gall to cry when his scholarship handout is decreased by some American who is sick of the crap? Gosh, we baby killers are generous eh?

This whiny, "the Americans hate us" is so lame. Americans did not even know you before 9/11. Their opinions are being formed. 9/11 woke us up to look at the Islamic world. We thought (silly us) that saving Muslims from slaughter in Bosnia might, for example, count for something. The pervasive victimology here is a crock of crap. When you don't like what you hear, don't shut it out by simply labeling it at "racist". That is simply escapism.

Why do I post in WA for the most part? Well, for your information, I have also posted my picture, My wifes picture, and that of my daughter, my nephew and my dogs, as well as my voice. I have posted in religion, as well as swapped recipe advice, and told people how cute their kids are. So please do not imply that I "hate" Pakistainis. I am on your turf. I am the one meeting you more than halfway. My interest lies in WA. Because Islam is political, there is no way to separate out the religion from the politics. My commentary on Islam is soley based on how it is effecting events in the world. I draw this distinction far more easily than Muslims.

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

.

do not make personal attacks here.

Who needs a HUG
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Re: Hamas to take part in Palestinian polls

OG first thing is if you want to learn, you have to be willing to be taught. Otherwise stuff it.

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

OG I'll respond to you when I get back from my office.

*Crying*
*Crying*
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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

No MQ, you are not the professor. Learning is also a matter of listening and observing.

The entire left-wing anti-american bunch somehow has the self righteous air of superiority. They have not even entertained the thought that they could be wrong.

What if, Afghanistan and Iraq turn out OK? 10 years from now Iraq is doing very well. They have new and responsive leadership, minorities are no longer repressed and slaughtered, and through out the Middle East despots are falling, human rights are improving, and people are prospering. What if the Palestinisns and Israelis rapidly find peace the moment Arafat is gone. Will you have the intellectaul courage to acknowledge that the world is a better place? Probably not.

New Comer
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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

ravage,

Don't confuse frustration and consternation with "hate". What you here from some of us is a whole lot of frustration.

I happen to believe it's rooted in a great underappreciation for and callousness toward "American sensibilities" (I know get a tissue).

That I feel the need to write the above parenthetical disclaimer, is symptomatic of this.

I feel the wave of anti-Americanism can in part be explained by some need to keep Americans (specifically the "white, male power structure) in a state of perpetual guilt.

That is to say, America has done so very much damage to the world, is so insensitive to the plight of others and is so bent on political and military domination that Americans simply posess no right to have pride, sensitivities or any positive cultural self-awareness.

I feel that many of you subscribe to this position (some less consciously thatn others).

As a result, you cannot abide a shred of indignance we might have on what would be very legitmate issues regarding most any society-as you feel we do not posess the very right to have indignance. I think this is a unique phenomenon applied only with such a level of conviction toward Americans (get out your hankie again).

So you read our frustration and indignance as "xenophobia" or "hate". You're so very wrong about that.

It may be right that Americans on the whole do not afford an acceptable amount of consideration and respect for Muslim nations/societies. However, where there is 0% respect afforded the other way (which is how we feel with CM considering the USFS or irem's less than respectful attitude toward our society) it is difficult to truly advance the dialogue.

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

On a serious note, I have never seen you near the religion forum. Although gs has more opinion based stuff then real facts, we do have some great information on the forum. And you go around defending the US, people attack it — you guys are too busy fighting to learn anything.

I mean it would never cross my mind that you came here to do anything but to argue and fight.

And if you had wanted to learn about Islam, you have only to make a trip to your library.

And then theres always the fact that you can be civil and ask questions, just like a lot of others (myself included - although I might not always be civil) do.

Yeah you ask others to be open minded, but if you wont do it, why should anyone else? Well thats how some people think- thats not my own personal view.

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

MQ, frankly I glaze over when the debate turns to which hadith to believe, and whether oysters are halal. Do a search and you will find that I have contributed at one time or another to almost every forum. That is because I read almost every forum, even though I might not regularly contribute to every forum.

And, here are the web sites of my church, thank you for asking.

http://www.stillspeaking.com/default-1.htm
http://www.ucc.org/index1.html

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

Get over yourselves. No one gives a flying fuk about what some yankee stooges think about Islam.

BTW you ever need more quotes, you know where to find 'em. :slight_smile:

The best is yet to come. :jhanda:

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

Taking exception to the attitude reflected in this fine visiting student’s statement is “hatred of Islam and Muslims”? Help me out Ravage. Why should I not be the least bit bothered by this young man’s attitude?

Ira, this is the kind of guy OG has been referring to. It’s never been “anti-Islam”,
rather “anti-a••wipe” when considering what type of people we’d prefer to have as guests in our country.

I think we can all agree that a “no a••wipe” policy is just plain sound policy. No?

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

OMG.. some dude is pissed, and we should all care now.

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

just wanted to say here that Im going to respond to OG's and Storch's posts eventually.. just am caught up in stuff right now.

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

I;m going to get in my new truck,get some cigarettes,go to the mall with my wife,go out to eat,and go to mass tomorrow morning.Don't blow up the world between now and when I
come back.SPQR Oh I forgot norad is working today.Bye:)

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

You all gotta relax...
Live a real life

^^^ SHEZAAN with HHL & SABY ^^^
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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

im sorry, but decent Universities generally tend to ensure that accepting grants does not mean selling your soul out to the donors. The donors for example, cannot make grant recipients dance on the street as per university laws. it would be particularly pigheaded, if universities imposed limits on the unexpressed thoughts of people for screening recipients. Theres certain protocols for making decisions on grants, in every university, and unless you can show me that your particular university had it in its grant charter to grant only to students that belonged to nationalities that didnt have people who insulted america on a public bulletin board, you were not acting according to the normal motions grant givers go through.

you are arrogant. you thrust your opinions in the faces of others as fact, and then restrict others to walking a narrow line at the risk of you victimising someone else of the same ethnicity. You’re just plugging your worldview on this forum as is every single idiot that posts here.

go to the thread by irem in feedback. your opinions are offensive to a lot of posters, and no, no my friend, not because people are impressed with your fact laced, backbreaking, nuanced, structured positive reinforcement inducing posts, no, but because people on this forum consider you a person who doesnt come here to talk, but to annoy people.

now tell me, do we, as a pakistani board, curtail the oppurtunity afforded to you to express yourself, do we, like you, talk of the wonderful four course meals we’ve given you and you spat in our faces?

for all your claims to freedom of speech, for all your claims of openmindedness, you just find different ways to justify what both of us know you are doing. harming someone materially because of his “potential” views.

i guess this part isnt for me, i didnt contend that you post in WA for the most part.

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

Well, let me see point by point.

Your understanding of Universities funding is weak. By REDIRECTING funds from a general purpose fund, largely used to award overseas grants to a fund expressly intended for Hispanic students (US citizens as well as non-US citizens) , the decision is out of the Universities hands. The University has established these funds to attract donors, and to give them flexibility and choice. I, and a lot of people who were offended by comments on Gupshup chose to give money to a group of students that might be more appreciative. We both have freedom of speech my friend. Tens of thousands of dollars were redirected from needy and worthy foreign students to needy and worthy hispanic students.

You are still not capable of correctly framing the issue. No one has said that students are not welcome, nor that they may not speak freely. What many of you fail to understand or acknowledge is the American governments role in the creation and perpetuation of Universities. You also fail to understand that it is and has been the FOREIGN POLICY of the United States to allow foreign students to come here. You are also incapable of understanding that your “free speech” has consequences. The fact that you happen to run into me is coincidental. Foreign students speaking so passionately against the American government while enjoying American hospitality is BOUND to pi$$ off Americans. Why are you then suprised to find people offended? To then turn around and call them racists (after the American people gave Irem a quarter of a million dollar education for instance) is simply one further slap in the face by people who are basically clueless.

**~~ GuppieS ~~**
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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

see you keep trying to frame the issue in comfortable terms for yourself. i dont care to argue about broader points for american universities etc etc, i wished to point out your inconsistency when you told Ira to let debate remain a debate, while you yourself go about redirecting funds etc and are in general pissed out no small measure through others debating and expressing their views. i dont wanna frame the debate anymore than that, another thread exists for that debate, and has been debated to death.

do what you have to do, i do not feel personally impacted by any decision you make. just dont claim that you are someone who can let a "passionate" debate rest at being a "passionate" debate.

in the end its just a random bulletin board. the debate may be passionate, at times it may even be good, but its a debate.

dont take it so seriously.

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

I came to GS to find out about Pakistanis and muslims and so far I have only found out that true muslims are a minority in Pakistan. Who would have thought.

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Re: I came to GS to learn about Muslims

I came to GS to become famous and rich....I want my money back...wait I did not pay anything to join. Anyway, I am neither famous nor rich. Its not fair.