I blame the West for my bad behavior...

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

I have heard this sentiment far more often than I would like. Its as if the West has dibs on all things evil. Where did this come from? This belief that everything in mans nature that deals with lusts, excess, etc, has to derive from a “Western” mentality? I am going to bring religion into this discussion because many of the people I talk to that feel this way are muslim, and many are European non-muslims. Now my question is, when the Qur’an states that the bedouins in arabia were one of the most illiterate people that practised jahiliyat, what part of the West were they immitating? Did they look to America and learn of their desires to want to be with 500 different women? Or to bury their daughters? Or drink alcohol or whatever it was?

Do people think that watching TV introduces man to his base desires? I dont believe the pagan arabs watched TV. One thing that is very clear in the Qur’an and to most people is the fact that we have desires that need to be controlled, or our company can influence our actions. Lets take this even further. Adam and Eve(Huwa). Why were they taken out of Heaven? What influenced them to disobey Allah’s command? Their neighbor didnt influence them, local gossip didnt, nothing but what Allah has revealed to us as to whom is our open enemy (Shaitan), influenced them. I am not suggesting that others dont influence us, but what I cant understand is why people are always ready to point at others for their own guilt. Now being a muslim, you cannot say on the day of judgement that well, “the West is the cause of my destruction…they are the reason I drank, went with 50 women, they gave me all these ideas, I couldnt have come up with them myself.” Is this how people honestly feel?

This is not to say again, that people dont get influenced by others, but this whole notion of “the West is the reason for all evils in this universe” is a very presumptive attitude, and an incorrect one in my opinion. Where did the Mongol hordes originate? Temujin wasnt from Amreeka or even Europe. Do people think that the pagan arabs didnt know how to party or didnt know what dancing was about? They probably partied better than anyone in the West today for all we know.

There are people out there who want others to just feed off this notion that the West is responsible for all ill behaviors, and thus it takes a sense of self-responsibility out of the equation. It’s easier to do bad things when you dont blame yourself for your actions.

Khair, its late, I was bored. Just thought I’d write what was on my mind. Every land, every nation, every peoples, every tribe and even every individual has the propensity to create mischief, to do evil, to debase others, to misbehave, etc.

I guess I just dont understand this whole pointing fingers business. It doesnt mean that Westerners dont commit evil acts, but it also doesnt mean that Pakistanis learned to be bad from the British for example.

If you are going to let yourself be influenced by things you think are wrong, what are you doing blaming others? Sure you can say they gave you an idea, but for you to follow it…sigh

2

Munni - I am glad for this thread. Sometimes I am almost ashamed to admit that I was raised in the US for feeling that by simply living here, I am not quite a good person. It seems that people are very similar in all parts of the world - there are good and there are bad. It is our moral choice to strive for goodness and to surround ourselves with friends and family who also choose to lead the moral path in life.

3

The root of a mans evil lies in his heart..he can look at the most shameful things and still be "pure"...we can't blame anyone or anything for our "wrongs" or "sins"...

The weak need little temptation.

4

i blame jews :snooty: (j/k)

khair.. ppl drink ..sleep with women in muslim countries too. and if ppl blame their negative behaviour on western values… well then i wud say that if u r so influenced by west, y not learn good things about western culture as well?

5

I think people who say that may be right and they may be wrong...

In the case of my mamuzaad cousins who were raised and educated in LA of all places grew up very educated in matters of religion...My cousin in fact is the editor of a Muslim magazine that is published in Ca. and both my cousins have beards longer than me and have married Hijabans, MashAllah...

My friend, born and raised here of a Paki father who is a doctor and an American mother, same thing...All Islamic and beard and all...No ABCDs here...

Matter could be explained if they were poor or some other circumstances, however their respective families have moolah...

I think in fact Muslims raised in the States or any other western country for that matter have lived amongst kuffar and tasted their lifestyles and seen what end they come to tend to shun western values...They take their lessons early in life and quickly distinguish and differentiate themselves becoming stronger in portraying their identity as not that of the kuffar but a definitive Muslim identity...As result not only are they very respected, they have a solid foundation on which to base their thoughts and actions...

The problem however lies with those that come to the west with weak values and even weaker convictions...Those that have lived in Pakistan and seen movies of the west and try to emulate that lifestyle...The average westerner while taking his life at a leisurely pace to pursue his desires is comfortable with all that goes around him. The confused newcomer, however, having no solid base as his identity, tries to fit in with the crowd...As a result he becomes more nanga than the westerner ever hoped to be...

I think people raised in the west with good convictions and tutoring can rise to be an exceptional example of someone who is strong and confident in their beliefs while those with weakened faiths tend to be rather underconfident pleasers...In order to fit in, they tend to please a lot and in order to please, they are willing to discard their values...As result you have a nervous individual who neither represents the west, nor his convictions nor himself...

Or he might not know any better...Who knows...Allah guides best...

6

and the Quran tells us that even the Satan will deny that it was he who misled us....
we'll all have to take full responsibility of our deeds, good or bad....

7

suroundings, circumstances and experiences help shape us..but how is it that people who grow up in the exact same neighbourhood, going to teh same school can turn out differently...simple..how they were raised.

Parents and family are very important, no matter where you are being raised.

however, when one becomes an adult. It is up to the individual to seek within, to see where he is right and where he is wrong, and how to become a better person.

st one point or the other background, education, etc although important..do not dictate who you are. An individual has the ability to become what he wants to be in spite of what life has dealt him, and not just because of what life has dealt him.

whose fault it is...not the west's, not anyone or anything's, its your fault..thats what i say to those people.

As i read someowhere, life is not a journey in finding yourself, but is a journey in inventing yourself.

8

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
I think people who say that may be right and they may be wrong...

In the case of my mamuzaad cousins who were raised and educated in LA of all places grew up very educated in matters of religion...My cousin in fact is the editor of a Muslim magazine that is published in Ca. and both my cousins have beards longer than me and have married Hijabans, MashAllah...

[/quote]

Lajawab bhai, having longer beards and having married Hijabans make them better Muslims eh? I disagree with that criterea. Dont get my wrong here, your cousins might have exceptional qualities, that make them good Muslims, but dont let the length of their 'dharhis' be a judge of about how good of a muslim they are.

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *

Lajawab bhai, having longer beards and having married Hijabans make them better Muslims eh? I disagree with that criterea. Dont get my wrong here, your cousins might have exceptional qualities, that make them good Muslims, but dont let the length of their 'dharhis' be a judge of about how good of a muslim they are.
[/QUOTE]

That may be the case in Pakistan, but not in the States...In the States if someone has a beard grown out of faith, it means something...It means a strong conviction to stand in the face of possible persecution by those who dislike Muslims...

10

Ditto! :k: :k:

11

It's easier to blame others than to believe oneself fallible.

12

I blame the East for my good behaviour

It’s not my fault :bummer:

13

Kya baat hai! giggle

14

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *

That may be the case in Pakistan, but not in the States...In the States if someone has a beard grown out of faith, it means something...It means a strong conviction to stand in the face of possible persecution by those who dislike Muslims...
[/QUOTE]

u have to face a lot of ridicule and possible persecution for wearing a beard even in muslim countries....
and this comes to u from someone who has really gone thru it....

15

If that is the case then why do muslims are so anal about people living a “western” lifestyle…Maybe its not western…A woman without doppata..A youngster watching Indian movies..A guy wearing shorts…should not bother anyone. These people are not imitating west…They are living lives based on their own desires and choices. I say muslims should keep their mouths shut.

16

Define pious,.. its all relative, if Lajoo considers Drinking and alcaholic stupor to be wrong and to wear shorts immoral to both fashion and his religion then he has as much right as the wronged to hold and even put forth his opinion. Much like you just have, and I consequently.
I would be much more worried and perplexed if people considered watching, and ignoring immorality (social or general) (which is relative and personal) to be the new norm.
And as far as head burying in sand is concerned, it is much deeper buried in the case of some who expect insults as a good and effective tool of pursuasion.

In my opnion it is a case of scapegoating on a much bigger scale. Much like RT said. It used to be the jews (still is) but now it is the west as a whole. It is a part of human nature I think, not correct but there none the less.

17

Define pious,.. its all relative, if Lajoo considers Drinking and alcaholic stupor to be wrong and to wear shorts immoral to both fashion and his religion then he has as much right as the wronged to hold and even put forth his opinion. Much like you just have, and I consequently.

I didn't say he doesn't have a "right" of opinion. But every opinion deserves a befitting response. If author in question shows some thought, some intelligent mental process before opening his mouth (no matter how much I may disagree with that opinion), I'd respect that. But people judging good character/morality based on friggin' beards and ankle high shalwar are ch******** without exceptions.

Allow me illustrate another obvious example of his ch*******. The aalim faazil author of the post at one point states that "and both my cousins have beards longer than me and have married Hijabans, MashAllah..."

The point of the above comment is, as you so failed to perceive, that Hijabans are more befitting and desirable as the pious wives than non-Hijabans. And it's not because they have good characters but because they wear Hijab. So for him character ultimately is menifested by the so called "Islamic appearance". He's not focusing on character of his Hijaban wives his cousin married but rather their appearances. That's a way of putting down all the other non-Hijabans who have good character but don't observe Hijab.

What does that translate to? It translates to the chauvinism of the type of men who want to impose Hijab on women (implicitly so by praising the Hijab and focusing on it rather than focusing on moral character first and foremost), rather than giving women the right to choose whether or not they want to observe Hijab and STILL be equally respectable. I've seen way too many ch******* like him in my life to know exactly where he's coming from.

18

one of my family freinds was killed point blank by someone with a beard and an oonchi shalwaar, when jamiaat decided to do its ghunda gardee at dow medical college.. this guy was not into any political group, got scared of the firing between NSF and jamiaat, actually slid under a car to be out of the way, and was dragged out ..eye witnesses told us that the jamiat goon put his foot on the guy's neck and shot him in the head..after a week's coma at aga khan hospital, he passed away.

moral of the story...beards and ooncha pajama is not a flawless indicator of someone's piety..

This is not to say that anyone with ooncah pajama and a beard is a hypocrate, or all jamiat people are idiots..but the fact exists that there are ppl who look the part, may or may not be pious ppl.

19

No but Fraudia that's bad example though since it occured back in East. Because according to Lajo, since people in the East have weak iman, even if they wear ankle high shalwar and grow beard, they remained in the weak iman category and hence are prone to shoot other people in the head.

20

living in the west where our religion is constantly criticised and questioned many of us have learned to answer back,

most importantly islamic reasoning is clearer, bcos when we are questioned we try to figure out the answer and that way it strengthens our faith

its all abt communicating with others i guess but b4 that we need to be confident in ourselves, our ethics morals and ideas

if anything I don’t blame the west for my behaviour, bcos its encouraged to strengthen my beliefs, if it weren’t there to question them perhaps I wouldn’t have grown up to be who I am

that doesn’t mean I am happy with it, on the contrary there are some westerners who are so nice but majority really hate muslims on a whole

ide hate to pretend otherwise