I am terrorist – and so are you..

[redidentity]

@Khan15

Pir Sahib,

Not sure if you have been reading this guys post, but I doubt whether he believes in live and let live. He is a hardcore al-Qaeda sympathiser.

The point of this thread is that while thousands came out to protest against the Israeli actions, no one was bothered about the Ahmadi mosque.

Ahmadis are a non-Muslim minority, who are citizens of Pakistan. There place of worship have to be defended, and thats in our constitution. We should may be learn something from the Isrealis, who put up police protection in Tel Aviv and Haifa to protect the mosques from any possible attacks in the early 2000s from Jewish fanatics.

thank you Khan for bringing the thread to the right track.. :)

that's wat the writer of the article meant.. if someone attacks Temple, church, or any other worshipping place of minorities we will strand still? saying that oh let them go to hell.. we are majority n israeli attack needs more coverage?

as a human, as a Pakistani and above all as a Muslim we need to give space to all religions.. as Pakistani, we need to look around us if we are doing any injustice with any Pakistani fellow.. what israel is doin is secondary.. i mean we cant say dat forget if someone is robbing our neighbour and lets go to help our brother living 1000 miles away..

i dont want ppl commenting to prove ahmedis are non muslims or ahmedis saying they are not.. i just wanted to see i as a nation we are united or not?

[shardmanny]

Re: I am terrorist – and so are you..

whats happening in pakistan is that all sides (a policy first used by the government and its friends) attack its targets regardless of who else is in the vicinity. i say this because all the attacks on the public that have been claimed by the ttp have used this same policy. so now its an all out civil war of low intensity

i dont actually know who has claimed the attack on the mirzai place of worship (it did have some ttp hallmarks but other clues point to different organisation), but given the fact that the recent hamid mir tape disclosed some possible mirzai involvement in the civil war, it could be possible that the attack was from one player to another player in the civil war, with some non involved innocents also became trapped in the firing line as is prefered by all sides. if so, its just another attack of the ongoing civil war, and the answer to end these attack is available by solving the war itself

[QUOTE]
as a human, as a Pakistani and above all as a Muslim
[/QUOTE]

sometimes its not possible to eat every cake going

[QUOTE]
i mean we cant say dat forget if someone is robbing our neighbour and lets go to help our brother living 1000 miles away..

[/QUOTE]

the proof is here

[redidentity]

whats happening in pakistan is that all sides (a policy first used by the government and its friends) attack its targets regardless of who else is in the vicinity. i say this because all the attacks on the public that have been claimed by the ttp have used this same policy. so now its an all out civil war of low intensity

i dont actually know who has claimed the attack on the mirzai place of worship (it did have some ttp hallmarks but other clues point to different organisation), but given the fact that the recent hamid mir tape disclosed some possible mirzai involvement in the civil war, it could be possible that the attack was from one player to another player in the civil war, with some non involved innocents also became trapped in the firing line as is prefered by all sides. if so, its just another attack of the ongoing civil war, and the answer to end these attack is available by solving the war itself

sometimes its not possible to eat every cake going

the proof is here

initially i had heard that some indian organization had accepted the responsibility for the attacks.. i am not finding any link for the news but i heard it..

[mizzm]

@cricketplaya

are you sure?

from alislamsite:

Mirza “claimed to be the metaphorical second coming of Jesus(as) of Nazareth and the divine guide”

so which is it? you believe Mirza to be Isa(as) ? or you believe in the above?

Next time, quote the whole thing, lol

“Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the only Islamic organization to believe that the long-awaited Messiah has come in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) (1835-1908) of Qadian. Ahmad(as) claimed to be the metaphorical second coming of Jesus(as) of Nazareth and the divine guide, whose advent was foretold by the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad(sa). Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes that God sent Ahmad(as), like Jesus(as), to end religious wars, condemn bloodshed and reinstitute morality, justice and peace. Ahmad’s(as) advent has brought about an unprecedented era of Islamic revival. He divested Islam of fanatical beliefs and practices by vigorously championing Islam’s true and essential teachings. He also recognized the noble teachings of the great religious founders and saints, including Zoroaster(as), Abraham(as), Moses(as), Jesus(as), Krishna(as), Buddha(as), Confucius(as), Lao Tzu and Guru Nanak, and explained how such teachings converged into the one true Islam.”

Where in ANY of that did he claim to bring about a new religion or be a nabi (astagfar)?

I rest my case.

A Messiah does not equal a Nabi and I am not a Kaffir.

Peace.

[mizzm]

@cricketplaya

Did I kill any Ahmdi ? We're having a discussion here, if you don't want to read it, just hit the back button :)

Absolutely true, I do not know if you have/havent killed one but I do know that its beliefs like yours that cause the bloodshed. I am sure you are supporting the deaths of the innocent HUMANS, first and foremost, then Ahmadis

[mizzm]

Re: I am terrorist – and so are you..

Mods: I apologize. I believe that Playa and I have both done our best to have a mature discussion and not an attack. I will stop refuting all comments at this point.

[Sehrysh]

@diwana

I still do not think you got the idea despite you seem to be in argumentary mode.

Otherwise, please discuss why those people who did not do anything against these acts are ANY different from majority Pakistani.???

Simple question.

Please answer in simple words for anyone's benefit. Thank you.

It seems CM understood my remark without any further explanation - so I'll not belabour the point.

@CM

You are referring to this nazi era poem:

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me and by that time no one was left to speak up."

I had heard this poem years ago and forgot about it - thanks for reminding me :)

There is another one out there I believe but this is more apt.

While the sentiments are powerful the reality is that we can not do anything. The average man has limited power in the modern world. This is not 18th century Europe where a revolution will fix everything. Million man marches have not changed the reality in any of the world's hot spots. And more importantly people should be held accountable to someone else's standard of what is the right away to protest against such issues.

Secondly on Ahmadies. They are not muslims. Their existence violates the Quran and the sayings of the Prophet specifically the last sermon. These are facts of reality. If you need the Surah's from the Quran I will provide them.

With that said they are humans and should be given basic respect and dignity. Even the Holy Prophet (SAW) treated Kufar with respect when they were not Muslims. Just because they are Kufar does not mean we can not treat them with respect and as human beings.

I am not here to debate whether Ahmadies are or are not Muslims - I leave that judgment to Allah. If I have erred by not passing judgment - that is between Allah and myself and I will be held accountable on the Day of Judgment.

With respect to whether or not one voice, one thousand or one million voices will make a difference in matters of realpolitik - I think the outcome or the change (or lack of ) wrought by that singular or multiple voices actions is less important, while more important is that the individual raised his voice and made an effort. The question is - does my conscience allow me to be silent when others are being oppressed or persecuted yet I expect someone else to stand with me when I am being victimized?

[CM]

Re: I am terrorist – and so are you..

Thus my original point of individual guilt. Each individual has a different standard of what is acceptable as a response to these situations. It is unacceptable for someone elses standard be applied to all as in the case of the original op-ed piece.

I have raised my voice in the past and i am satisfied with my own actions. Nobody has the right to tell me its not good enough. The issues of self-victimization is not my concern and people should stop using their own insecurities as a method of writing. That of course applies to the original author and not to you.

[Sehrysh]

Thus my original point of individual guilt. Each individual has a different standard of what is acceptable as a response to these situations. It is unacceptable for someone elses standard be applied to all as in the case of the original op-ed piece.

I have raised my voice in the past and i am satisfied with my own actions. Nobody has the right to tell me its not good enough. The issues of self-victimization is not my concern and people should stop using their own insecurities as a method of writing. That of course applies to the original author and not to you.

My goodness - I actually agree with what you've posted.

[cricketplaya]

@mlatif

Next time, quote the whole thing, lol

“Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the only Islamic organization to believe that the long-awaited Messiah has come in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) (1835-1908) of Qadian. Ahmad(as) claimed to be the metaphorical second coming of Jesus(as) of Nazareth and the divine guide, whose advent was foretold by the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad(sa). Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes that God sent Ahmad(as), like Jesus(as), to end religious wars, condemn bloodshed and reinstitute morality, justice and peace. Ahmad’s(as) advent has brought about an unprecedented era of Islamic revival. He divested Islam of fanatical beliefs and practices by vigorously championing Islam’s true and essential teachings. He also recognized the noble teachings of the great religious founders and saints, including Zoroaster(as), Abraham(as), Moses(as), Jesus(as), Krishna(as), Buddha(as), Confucius(as), Lao Tzu and Guru Nanak, and explained how such teachings converged into the one true Islam.”

Where in ANY of that did he claim to bring about a new religion or be a nabi (astagfar)?

I rest my case.

A Messiah does not equal a Nabi and I am not a Kaffir.

Peace.

You said you believe Isa alayhi salam will come down in physical form but then I pointed out to you, Ahmdis believe in metaphors. You said no, then I pointed out your own site saying it, so do you go against your religion or not?

[diwana]

It seems CM understood my remark without any further explanation - so I'll not belabour the point.

Well... but you did not...anyways. OK. :)

This is what you said:

@Sehrysh

Each of us is responsible for own actions and accountable to Allah for what we've done in our lifetimes. But at what point does our inaction (i.e. failure to condemn or protest against the "actual" terrorists) make us complicit or show our tacit agreement for the acts of the terrorists in the eyes of society and in the eyes of Allah?

it does not make ANYONE living in his or her individual house a terrorist complicit for not talking against people who are considered terrorists by any means.

Majority Pakistani people live in their houses. Raise their children and try their best to
earn a decent living. They are more worried about rice, sugar, Aata, Daal and oil prices and you expect them they have time and energy (as majority) to speak about politics?

And they are accomplice of terrorists? Duh! :D Some kind of judgement you have for people! That is a serious but false allegation. Please stop listening to some sick media outlets who's only job is to make others feel bad about themselves and be depressed.

This kind of luxury of worrying about world politics should be for those who have no other essential worries in life and sit in easy chair in airconditioned rooms and can pass judgement on others. :)

I am not here to debate whether Ahmadies are or are not Muslims - I leave that judgment to Allah. If I have erred by not passing judgment - that is between Allah and myself and I will be held accountable on the Day of Judgment.

With respect to whether or not one voice, one thousand or one million voices will make a difference in matters of realpolitik - I think the outcome or the change (or lack of ) wrought by that singular or multiple voices actions is less important, while more important is that the individual raised his voice and made an effort. The question is - does my conscience allow me to be silent when others are being oppressed or persecuted yet I expect someone else to stand with me when I am being victimized?

No. The concience should always be awake.
But one cannot just pass judgement on others for no reason.

*People who are inactive are not accomplice of misconduct of others. That is what I am saying. *
Otherwise, you must be the one who agrees with all Germans being Nazi sympathizers or Nazis,

....yes or no? Say it.

[diwana]

@cricketplaya

Simple. Just as I consider the Christian who believes in trinity as non-beliver, I consider ANYONE who believes in a Prophet after Rasulullah(SAW) as a non-believer. I can't be more clearer than that.

That's it?

I asked you what makes you special that you be considered muslim and not others with ideas/beliefs different than yours.

..........You brought you own beliefs as proof that you should be considered special. :)

Now do you see that is not a proof that you should be considered special.

It is your belief and very respectable no doubt. Does not mean only YOU should be considered muslim.

Any argument you will bring can be and could be refuted.

Millions and even billions do not agree with you either, not that you should care I understand.

There is no room for long and fruitless belief arguments. Period.

One should just present the ideas and exchange it for others to understand but can never win an argument to change someone's beliefs or make other convinced.

Why not just say as being humble person: This is how I learned (and believe and does not mean I will always be right) when it comes to beliefs and religions.

P.S. Now don't just say "And Allah knows best" after arguing over and over and calling other names like some do.

[cricketplaya]

There is no room for long and fruitless belief arguments. Period.

One should just present the ideas and exchange it for others to understand but can never win an argument to change someone's beliefs or make other convinced.

Why not just say as being humble person: This is how I learned (and believe and does not mean I will always be right) when it comes to beliefs and religions.

P.S. Now don't just say "And Allah knows best" after arguing over and over and calling other names like some do.

That's your take on it, well and good. You just have to accept there are others who hold different views and have different ways of going about.

Basics should not be compromised. Do we accept every other view out there?

PS: I'm no special banda.

[mizzm]

You said you believe Isa alayhi salam will come down in physical form but then I pointed out to you, Ahmdis believe in metaphors. You said no, then I pointed out your own site saying it, so do you go against your religion or not?

playa, what is your point? I am not following. Do I go against Islam and Ahmadiyyat? Nope.

[ameerhamzah]

@cricketplaya

Alhamdulillah, if I say that a Qadiani is of different belief as I am and I’m labeled a terrorist, so be it.

******For you is your faith, and for me, my faith. **[surah al-kafirun]

If only the Qadianis really believed in the above then they would not make such a fuss.

4:05 onwards..

next part:

yar kisi insaan ko to quote kerna tha.
she is a model turned tv host.No qualification in journalism field or political science.She is a retired model who agreed to wear vulgar cloths on morning shows and was recruited as a tv anchor.what does she knows about politics.
Dawn has a policy of spreading profanity and vulgarity via morning shows.They make their hosts wear vulgar cloths shows curves to attract the viewship.
Hit youtube to see what Public at large has to say about her.

Kasam sai khuch arsa pehlay mai office janay say pehlay Tv dekhta tha.To jab bhi mai dan news pai naveen naqvi ko dekhta to meri tebayat kharab ho jati thi kio kay jab abb subah subah koi aisi cheez dekh lain to phir aisa hi hota hai.kai bar to aisa bhi hua kay mugya ulti(vomitting hoi) or mai office nai jaa seka.

[Ali_Bukhri]

Re: I am terrorist – and so are you..

watch www.alislam.org