I am terrorist – and so are you..

[redidentity]

An article by Naveen Naqvi written in such harshly beautiful way..

There are many before me who have written about Friday’s attack on the Ahmadis in Lahore. By the time this piece goes into print, still more will have written — and written better — of the audacious attack on Jinnah Hospital by the terrorists who came back to save their own. However, if I do not write of these attacks, I will become more complicit than I already am, for isn’t it true that every time I renew my passport I am complicit as are you? Every minute that I hold my national identity card, I may as well be holding a gun to the head of any minority in Pakistan.

The power-holders who created and bred these killers were complicit. Those who continue to feed them for strategic reasons are complicit. Whoever is the voice in the recording that did the rounds on the internet before it became a scandal and threatened to be a lawsuit, the one that said Ahmadis were kafirs, he is complicit. Let us also not forget the immediate reaction from the state, which was predictably to not look inward but to blame the ‘foreign hand.’ I could almost see Tariq Aziz, fist raised in the air standing at the stage of his Neelam Ghar, bellowing, ‘Sahee jawab kay liye, Rahber water cooler aap ka hua! Denialistan Zindabad!’

But wait, it’s not over yet. We cannot overlook the judiciary on which we have pinned our hopes, the Supreme Court that set free the greatest hate-monger against religious minorities, Hafiz Saeed. Then there is the government, which indicates a possible military operation against what have now been conveniently coined the Punjabi Taliban while allowing Saeed to embark on the extremist version of a rock tour.

One thinks there is hope yet. There is the activist community. A few members of Karachi’s civil society collected at the Press Club to agitate against the assault on the Ahmadis. They could only assemble for half an hour, and had to cut their protest short. Why? Because, reminiscent of a “Monty Python” skit, next in line was the anti-Israel protest. Of course, this was the real crowd-puller. They easily managed to nudge and jostle their way in. ‘Well, it’s our turn now, innit?’ The liberals, having been threatened by a bunch of murderous thugs just a week before over the Facebook fiasco, complied and withdrew.

Much as I disagree with Israel’s actions, I was ashamed to read in the papers the following day that in Islamabad alone a thousand people came out to protest within minutes of the attack on the flotilla.

No matter what I write, and how I may protest or apologise, it does not change the fact that I am complicit.

I am terrorist and so are you.

I am terrorist - and so are you | The Express Tribune

[cricketplaya]

Alhamdulillah, if I say that a Qadiani is of different belief as I am and I’m labeled a terrorist, so be it.

******For you is your faith, and for me, my faith. **[surah al-kafirun]

If only the Qadianis really believed in the above then they would not make such a fuss.

4:05 onwards..

next part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gEblBrRQnw

[CM]

Re: I am terrorist – and so are you..

Taking bets on how much of my comment is edited:

Must we do this? Didn’t Nazi Germany already go through all of this and come out, you know smarter than the Pakistanis who espouse such views. Take history as an example, the issue of collective responsibility is an archaic notion which holds no value, save for the winners of the conflict to witch hunt the losers.

By the same notion, every American or Brit you (generic you) have worked with, studied with and have befriended is a war criminal by the actions of their military in various wars. The fact that Napalm was used in Vietnam in violation of the CBW treaty, or the violations of the Geneva Convention when it came to rendition, and the various prison camps in Iraq and Afghanistan is testament to these realities.

However in such cases many draw the distinction between the acts of war and the common man on the street. At the end of the day I am only responsible for my own actions. Just like the average man walking down Edgware road or Central Park is by no means responsible for the actions of a solider some thousand miles away, in the same vein I am not responsible for actions I have not taken.

One can condemn the actions. Protest them. But at the end of the day the mentality that we are all terrorist is an individual notion and issue of individual guilt. If you agree with the author, by all means I will happily label you a terrorist. I however am a law abiding citizen with no desire for malice towards any other individual based on race, creed or faith.

Please don’t project ones own (again generic) insecurities to make others feel worse.

[Khan15]

@cricketplaya

Alhamdulillah, if I say that a Qadiani is of different belief as I am and I’m labeled a terrorist, so be it.

******For you is your faith, and for me, my faith. **[surah al-kafirun]

If only the Qadianis really believed in the above then they would not make such a fuss.

4:05 onwards..

next part:

Playa,

You’er not a trrorist, just a terrorist sympathiser.

[X2]

Taking bets on how much of my comment is edited:

Must we do this? Didn’t Nazi Germany already go through all of this and come out, you know smarter than the Pakistanis who espouse such views. Take history as an example, the issue of collective responsibility is an archaic notion which holds no value, save for the winners of the conflict to witch hunt the losers.

By the same notion, every American or Brit you (generic you) have worked with, studied with and have befriended is a war criminal by the actions of their military in various wars. The fact that Napalm was used in Vietnam in violation of the CBW treaty, or the violations of the Geneva Convention when it came to rendition, and the various prison camps in Iraq and Afghanistan is testament to these realities.

However in such cases many draw the distinction between the acts of war and the common man on the street. At the end of the day I am only responsible for my own actions. Just like the average man walking down Edgware road or Central Park is by no means responsible for the actions of a solider some thousand miles away, in the same vein I am not responsible for actions I have not taken.

One can condemn the actions. Protest them. But at the end of the day the mentality that we are all terrorist is an individual notion and issue of individual guilt. If you agree with the author, by all means I will happily label you a terrorist. I however am a law abiding citizen with no desire for malice towards any other individual based on race, creed or faith.

Please don’t project ones own (again generic) insecurities to make others feel worse.

excellent post

If only the Qadianis really believed in the above then they would not make such a fuss.

making such a fuss about being killed in their place of worship or fuss in general you mean. Just thought I would clarify.

[Sehrysh]

Taking bets on how much of my comment is edited:

Must we do this? Didn’t Nazi Germany already go through all of this and come out, you know smarter than the Pakistanis who espouse such views. Take history as an example, the issue of collective responsibility is an archaic notion which holds no value, save for the winners of the conflict to witch hunt the losers.

By the same notion, every American or Brit you (generic you) have worked with, studied with and have befriended is a war criminal by the actions of their military in various wars. The fact that Napalm was used in Vietnam in violation of the CBW treaty, or the violations of the Geneva Convention when it came to rendition, and the various prison camps in Iraq and Afghanistan is testament to these realities.

However in such cases many draw the distinction between the acts of war and the common man on the street. At the end of the day I am only responsible for my own actions. Just like the average man walking down Edgware road or Central Park is by no means responsible for the actions of a solider some thousand miles away, in the same vein I am not responsible for actions I have not taken.

**One can condemn the actions. Protest them. But at the end of the day the mentality that we are all terrorist is an individual notion and issue of individual guilt. **If you agree with the author, by all means I will happily label you a terrorist. I however am a law abiding citizen with no desire for malice towards any other individual based on race, creed or faith.

Please don’t project ones own (again generic) insecurities to make others feel worse.

Each of us is responsible for own actions and accountable to Allah for what we've done in our lifetimes. But at what point does our inaction (i.e. failure to condemn or protest against the "actual" terrorists) make us complicit or show our tacit agreement for the acts of the terrorists in the eyes of society and in the eyes of Allah?

[cricketplaya]

@X2

excellent post

making such a fuss about being killed in their place of worship or** fuss in general **you mean. Just thought I would clarify.

that

[diwana]

@Sehrysh

Each of us is responsible for own actions and accountable to Allah for what we've done in our lifetimes. But at what point does our inaction (i.e. failure to condemn or protest against the "actual" terrorists) make us complicit or show our tacit agreement for the acts of the terrorists in the eyes of society and in the eyes of Allah?

I don't think you got his ( CM ) point.

At what point you consider any citizen of any country responsible of any misconduct based on breaking of humanity law and freedom of choice? That was the question.

There have been breach of humanity laws by citizens of so called humanity law holders and preachers of equal rights.

Eastern or Western, Northern or Southern, countries from all hemosphere have dirty hands and shameful acts to contribute to. One way or other. Being silent or not active.

[cricketplaya]

Re: I am terrorist – and so are you..

This is exactly the type of mentality I was refering to in this thread: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/all-views/430000-how-easily-they-turn-their-backs.html
Apologetic.

[diwana]

Re: I am terrorist – and so are you..

And I am not sure why CM was even banned. But Welcome back CM. Does not mean all your posts are agreeable CM dude!

Welcome again. Looking forward to your controvertial, stupid :D, stimulatory, and even very intelligent and thoughtful posts…

[Sehrysh]

@diwana

I don't think you got his ( CM ) point.

At what point you consider any citizen of any country responsible of any misconduct based on breaking of humanity law and freedom of choice? That was the question.

There have been breach of humanity laws by citizens of so called humanity law holders and preachers of equal rights.

Eastern or Western, Northern or Southern, countries from all hemosphere have dirty hands and shameful acts to contribute to. One way or other. Being silent or not active.

No, I clearly understood what CM was saying - that Pakistanis should not take on an apologist attitude and I agree that you cannot impute the actions of a few on the many.

BUT having said that, while I do not need to apologize for the actions of others, at some point, I being a citizen of the world or a makhluq who will one day be answerable to Allah - is it enough for me to say that I did nothing wrong OR do I have a social and religious obligation to raise my voice against those who have wronged others?

[mizzm]

We believe in LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE. Perhaps if the terrorist had believed in that too, there wouldnt be 95 deaths.

Also, please stop referring to us as Qadianis. We are Ahmadis and I would hate to call a sunni something besides "sunni.

Lastly, I dunno who the Molvi is in the youtube clip. I do know that nowhere have I ever read the Khalifa claiming to be Allah. ASTAGFAR! Tauba for a molvi lying.

You have a lot of courage to write such words even after 95 have been slain. My own grandfather was stoned to death for being Ahmadi. Please stop trying to justify innocent HUMANS being slaughtered. Remember humanity and then if someone is a sunni, shia or ahmadi.

Peace.

M

@cricketplaya

Alhamdulillah, if I say that a Qadiani is of different belief as I am and I’m labeled a terrorist, so be it.

******For you is your faith, and for me, my faith. **[surah al-kafirun]

If only the Qadianis really believed in the above then they would not make such a fuss.

4:05 onwards..

next part:

[cricketplaya]

@mlatif

We believe in LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE. Perhaps if the terrorist had believed in that too, there wouldnt be 95 deaths.

Also, please stop referring to us as Qadianis. We are Ahmadis and I would hate to call a sunni something besides "sunni.

Lastly, I dunno who the Molvi is in the youtube clip. I do know that nowhere have I ever read the Khalifa claiming to be Allah. ASTAGFAR! Tauba for a molvi lying.

You have a lot of courage to write such words even after 95 have been slain. My own grandfather was stoned to death for being Ahmadi. Please stop trying to justify innocent HUMANS being slaughtered. Remember humanity and then if someone is a sunni, shia or ahmadi.

Peace.

M

If you've read the books then I request you contact the Shaykh to refute his claims or call your khalifa because lots of "Ahmdis" are converting to Islam after the Shaykh's evidence is presented to Ahmdis. Alhamdulillah

[mizzm]

Re: I am terrorist – and so are you..

Part 2: 1:44 - wow. Shabaash, Molvi Saab for deciding who is and who is not a Muslim. Perhaps you are the one trying to be God for deciding who is and who is NOT a Muslim. Let Allah decide, I beg you.

[mizzm]

Re: I am terrorist – and so are you..

4:22 - I dont wear a hijaab and I have not been kicked out of Ahmadiyyat lol...what rubbish. next time post something substantial.

[cricketplaya]

@mlatif

Part 2: 1:44 - wow. Shabaash, Molvi Saab for deciding who is and who is not a Muslim. Perhaps you are the one trying to be God for deciding who is and who is NOT a Muslim. Let Allah decide, I beg you.

1400 years on, since the Prophet's *sallallahu alayhi wasallam *impostors have been labeled kafir (non-believer) so it's nothing new. Like I said, you say you have read all the books of Mirza Qadiani, then refute the claims.

[mizzm]

Re: I am terrorist – and so are you..

You want me to refute claims that I've never read that your Molvi saab is reading from a book I cant get my hands on? Seriously?

Tell your Molvi to stop deciding who can and cant be Muslim. I'll consider him humane

As far as being labeled a Kafir - playa, will you please tell me how I am a kafir?

I pray the same exact salaat as you, read from the same Holy Quran and I do not EVER (astagfaar) associate anyone with Prophet Muhammad (SAW). I believe there is a reviver in Islam who came for the sole purpose or REVIVING the message already sent by Prophet Muhammad.

Lastly, WHO has labeled the prophet's imposters as Kafir, and WHO decided they are Kafir? Allah? your Molvi? You?

Let me know.

La Illaha Illulah Muhammad-dur Rasool Lullah!

[diwana]

@Sehrysh

No, I clearly understood what CM was saying - that Pakistanis should not take on an apologist attitude and I agree that you cannot impute the actions of a few on the many.

BUT having said that, while I do not need to apologize for the actions of others, at some point, I being a citizen of the world or a makhluq who will one day be answerable to Allah - is it enough for me to say that I did nothing wrong OR do I have a social and religious obligation to raise my voice against those who have wronged others?

I still do not think you got the idea despite you seem to be in argumentary mode.

So:

With your preconcieved notion:

Every American should be considered a murderer and killer of children in Vietnam war?

Every American should be considered responsible for bombing Hiroshima And Nagasaki ?

Every American is responsible for wars committed by them against any country?

Every Jew is evil for Palestinian people sufferings?

Every German in 1940's should be considered a Nazi ?

Every British is evil for having his or her ancestor ruling the world by winning wars or whatever?

Every Japanese should hate every American for killing so many Japanese?

Not to mention Russians, French and Mongols/Changez Khan....!

NOW!

If you agree with that. No argument. You and your thinking. May God help you.

Otherwise, please discuss why those people who did not do anything against these acts are ANY different from majority Pakistani.???

Simple question.

Please answer in simple words for anyone's benefit. Thank you.

[cricketplaya]

@mlatif

You want me to refute claims that I’ve never read that your Molvi saab is reading from a book I cant get my hands on? Seriously?

Tell your Molvi to stop deciding who can and cant be Muslim. I’ll consider him humane

As far as being labeled a Kafir - playa, will you please tell me how I am a kafir?

I pray the same exact salaat as you, read from the same Holy Quran and I do not EVER (astagfaar) associate anyone with Prophet Muhammad (SAW). I believe there is a reviver in Islam who came for the sole purpose or REVIVING the message already sent by Prophet Muhammad.

Lastly, WHO has labeled the prophet’s imposters as Kafir, and WHO decided they are Kafir? Allah? your Molvi? You?

Let me know.

La Illaha Illulah Muhammad-dur Rasool Lullah!

Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam has declared the impostors as kuffar (includes Mirza Qadiani)! Alhamdulillah, there are still people who follow in his(saw)'s footsteps and don’t fear the kuffar and only fear Allah swt.

InshAllah accept Islam, the Islam where Rasulullah (SAW) is the last of the Prophets without any IFS or BUTS.

Also if you have not read something Mirza Qadiani has written then how do you believe in it? Is it fair to say most Qadianis have never read his works and have blind faith in a man who claimed to be a Prophet? That is what I’m getting from you guys… I pray that you study with an open mind, get your hands on all the ORIGINAL works and study them.

[mizzm]

Rasulullah never could have declared Ahmadis as imposters since Ahmadiyyat was nonexistent during Prophet Muhammads time, do you agree?

I only fear Allah. Please provide proof that your molvi is reading the original proper work of the Pomised Messiah.

NOTE: I said Messiah, NOT RASOOL. There is a difference.

2nd NOTE: I do agree with you with no IFS AND BUTS: Rasulullah (SAW) IS THE LAST OF ALL PROPHETS.

@cricketplaya

Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam has declared the impostors as kuffar (includes Mirza Qadiani)! Alhamdulillah, there are still people who follow in his(saw)'s footsteps and don't fear the kuffar and only fear Allah swt.

InshAllah accept Islam, the Islam where Rasulullah (SAW) is the last of the Prophets without any IFS or BUTS.

Also if you have not read something Mirza Qadiani has written then how do you believe in it? Is it fair to say most Qadianis have never read his works and have blind faith in a man who claimed to be a That is what I'm getting from you guys... I pray that you study with an open mind, get your hands on all the ORIGINAL works and study them.