WHere is this world going to? Why not just end it here?
Sick!
Absolutely sick
:( :( :(
Independence can never be won through such heinous acts of terrorism.
bro ansaree, well i apologize for not having proof for what i said..and i know i would be counted as a liar for that, but i do think that he said that he was not part of AQ..now if he shared the views or not is not known really...but wallah o alam, and i am indeed sorry for spreading news i just heard from word of mouth as i know it is forbidden to spread gossip.
200 dead
700+ injured.
3 living rebels caught
4 have escaped
Other rebels have been killed.
As far as I know a bomb or a mine was planted on the roof and it got loose and fell and exploded. So the Russian soldiers thought they have started killing and they went in. The hostages ran out and the rebel shot at the hostages including kids.
There were many bodies, most were kids.
I find no justification for killings the kids/women.
Russian authorities got themselves to blame as well.
Stop going to the Chechens homes and take their sons away so the kids and the women would be terrified never to see them anymore. Stop taking the women away, rape them, behead them and then throw them in the lake. Stop torturing the prisoners.
You kill us, we kill you.
You torture us, we torture you.
You make us suffer, we make you suffer too.
What fuels such things, it's definitely more than just radical theoreology.
This a crazy world.
Re: hundreds, including 200 children held hostage in Russia
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
The Downing of two passenger jets and 2 bombings in public locals within a week and now this.
[/QUOTE]
Blame Pakistan.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by little human: *
.
As far as I know a bomb or a mine was planted on the roof and it got loose and fell and exploded.
[/QUOTE]
I knew Jihadis were innocent.....amazing..... the roof moved and the bomb exploded...and now Russian are to be blamed..
Disusting dusgusting...never blame the Jihadis...never..it is always someone else's fault...this time the bomb itself is to be blamed because it moved and exploded.....I wonder why it was put on roof..for decoration may be?
taking hostage small kids on the first day of school....this top anything one one could have done in the past.
why does every hostage crisis in Russia end up in people getting killed. they either need to learn how to negotiate better or conduct operations better.
very, very tragic.
[quote]
I knew Jihadis were innocent.....amazing..... the roof moved and the bomb exploded...and now Russian are to be blamed..
Disusting dusgusting...never blame the Jihadis...never..it is always someone else's fault...this time the bomb itself is to be blamed because it moved and exploded.....I wonder why it was put on roof..for decoration may be?
taking hostage small kids on the first day of school....this top anything one one could have done in the past.
[/quote]
What is it past noon again for you??? Have you been reading the thread and looking at the condemnations? Or are you as usual tea bagging the goras for your own pleasure.
Dear Peoples,
Horrid, horrid thing to hold hostages...especially children.
We are told that Islamic terrorists are responsible.
This is how media presents this crisis.
"Islamic Terrorists have taken a school full of children hostage."*
[IMHO only terrorists would do such a thing]
BTW....on the * ^ .... I think a couple people misunderstood Seminole's post.
I really don't know the facts about the [Chechens]....I know there is a place they call [Chechnyia]... and this taking of hostages occured in Russian territory? near the border of what is concidered [Chechnyia] territory?
So is [Chechnyia] autonomous region of Russia? A state of Russia? A province of Russia that wants to sever ties to Russia and be own country?
What exactly are those Chechens fighting for?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
why does every hostage crisis in Russia end up in people getting killed. they either need to learn how to negotiate better or conduct operations better.
very, very tragic.
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps better question is?
What is so important to these people that holding children hostage is deemed acceptable?
What is so wrong with people that one needs to learn to negotiate release of children taken hostage?
How come we can't negotiate without taking hostages?
How come we just can't talk and listen to each others greviances?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Thap: *
Think about the bigger picture UTD, these people are killed, then more rise up and kill more innocents, the Russian army goes in heavy handed and kills yet more rebels and innocents, which in turn ensures more extreme acts and before we know it we are at a Russian school again God forbid.
Unless people snap out of this cyclic thinking this and the Palestinian crisis will never end.
'targetted hits, better intelligence', don't you think the Russian forces have been doing all they can militarily since Putin came to power on that promise. It is safe to say it didn't and hasn't worked, check out the news!
To be honest I don't know the ins and outs of the chechen situation, the call for independance must have a strong pull factor, but push factors too, better people than me are in positions of power to do something lasting about this that ensures the safety of the total Russian population, I hope they are heard and something other than military solutions and seriously considered, it may be the only chance to ensure this type of brutal act never happens again.
It's old but true, the cycle of violence has to be broken. And then something lasting has to be done to make the conditions for the growth of such extremism difficult if not impossible.
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps negations with the Nazis should have taken place as well? I view those who take children hostage, shooting them in their backs when they try and flee, or blowing them up no better. If Chechens allow themselves to be represented by child killers you can't expect Russia to have negations with them.
hmm.. the less said about this the better. It's almost funny that these people think that attacking schools will help them gain indpendance.
In the end this will perpetuate the cycle of violence. Russian soldiers will slaughter Chechan children (as I'm sure they already have). All these events willbe repeated. I tend to just tuen out the news now,,, seems like there is'nt much good news to follow.
I personally see nothing wrong with what the russians did. They arent to blame. The explosions took place and those idiots freaked out. I hope every last one of them is caught and totured. I mean who the **** takes children as hostages.
On the other hand i commend spetnaz as a force. I believe they are the ones that rushed in first when the roof collapsed to save the children. Extremely courageous. Just how a special forces unit should behave.
Death Toll Rises in Russia School Standoff
Death Toll Rises in Russia School Standoff
By MIKE ECKEL
BESLAN, Russia (AP) - More than 340 people, including 155 children, were killed in the violence that ended a hostage standoff with militants at a southern Russian school, a prosecutor said Saturday. President Vladimir Putin accused the attackers of trying to spark an ethnic conflict that would engulf Russia's troubled Caucasus Mountains region.
Russian Deputy Prosecutor Sergei Fridinsky told reporters that 322 victims were killed, as well as all 26 militants involved in the seizure of the school. That raised the death toll well beyond the 250 officials had previously cited.
Medical officials said more than 542 people including 336 children were hospitalized after the eruption of violence that ended the 62-hour hostage drama on Friday. The hostage-takers - who had been demanding independence for nearby Chechnya - held the more than 1,000 hostages in the school's sweltering gymnasium, refusing to let in food or water.
Commandos stormed the school after the militants set off explosions and began shooting at hostages who fled. The result was 10 hours of chaos. Crying children, some naked and covered with blood, fled the scene or were carried out amid explosions and gunfire. Security forces chased militants who split into groups and took refuge in a home and a basement. During the initial explosions, part of the school roof collapsed, causing many deaths.
Putin flew to Beslan, in the southern republic of North Ossetia, before dawn Saturday, as smoke was still rising from the shattered school.
``Even alongside the most cruel attacks of the past, this terrorist act occupies a special place because it was aimed at children,'' he said during a meeting with regional officials, which was broadcast on Russian television.
He stressed that security officials had not planned to storm the school - trying to fend off any potential criticism that the government side had provoked the bloodshed. Some North Ossetians complained, however, that his visit was too little, too late.
``Why didn't he come earlier? .... Why did he come in the middle of the night?'' said Irina Volgokova, 33, whose close friend and the friend's daughter were missing.
``He is the head of our country. He should answer for this before the people.''
Dozens of people crowded around lists of survivors posted at the Beslan hospital, searching desperately for news of loved ones who were not yet accounted for. A man showed hospital nurses a photograph - a young boy dressed in a suit, like he was going to a birthday party or holiday celebration.
``We run here, we run there, like we're out of our minds, trying to find out anything we can about them,'' said Tsiada Biazrova, 47, whose neighbors' children had yet to be found.
For some, grief had turned to anger.
``Fathers will bury their children, and after 40 days (the Orthodox Christian mourning period) ... they will take up weapons and seek revenge,'' said Alan Kargiyev, a 20-year-old university student in the regional capital Vladikavkaz.
The school attack followed a suicide bomb attack outside a Moscow subway station Tuesday that killed eight people, and last week's near-simultaneous crash of two Russian jetliners last week after what officials believe were explosions on board.
Putin warned against letting the latest attack stir up tensions in the multiethnic North Caucasus region. ``One of the goals of the terrorists was to sow ethnic enmity and blow up the North Caucasus,'' Putin said.
``Anyone who gives in to such a provocation will be viewed by us as abetting terrorism,'' he said.
Putin ordered the region's borders closed while officials searched for everyone connected with the attack.
Putin visited several of the hospitalized victims, stopping to stroke the head of one injured child and the arm of the school principal. Six badly wounded children including a two-year-old were flown to Moscow for treatment, the Emergency Situations Ministry said.
Russian authorities said the bloody end to the standoff came after explosions apparently set off by the militants - possibly by accident - as emergency workers were entering the school to collect the bodies of slain hostages.
As hostages took their chance to flee, the militants opened fire on them, and security forces - along with town residents who had brought their own weapons - opened covering fire to help the hostages escape. Commandos stormed into the building and secured it, then chased fleeing militants in the town, with shooting lasting for 10 hours.
The Federal Security Service chief in North Ossetia, Valery Andreyev, said more than 30 militants had seized the school, and Channel One and NTV television reported that three of them had been captured. However, Fridinsky, the prosecutor, later said the final number of attackers was 26 and all had been killed.
The bodies of at least six militants lay outside the school on Saturday, surrounded by black metal and plastic weapons parts and bullets. A forensic investigator studied the bodies.
An explosives expert told NTV television that the hostage-takers, themselves strapped with explosives, hung bombs from basketball hoops in the gym and set other explosive devices in the building.
Ten militants killed in gunfights with security forces were from Arab countries, Andreyev said, and Putin's adviser on Chechnya, Aslanbek Aslakhanov, said nine were ``Arab mercenaries.''
An Arab presence among the attackers would boost Putin's argument that the Russian campaign in neighboring Chechnya, where mostly Muslim separatists have been fighting Russian forces in a brutal war for most of the past decade, is part of the war on international terrorism - seen by Putin's critics as an attempt to deflect human rights criticism.
The region's governor, Alexander Dzasokhov, said Friday that the militants had demanded that Russian troops leave Chechnya - the first solid indication that the attack was connected to the rebellion. Andreyev said Saturday that investigators were looking into whether militants had smuggled the explosives and weapons into the school and hidden them during a renovation this summer.
Alla Gadieyeva, a 24-year-old hostage who was seized with her son and mother - all three were among the survivors - said the captors laughed when she asked them for water for her mother.
When children began to faint, they laughed,'' Gadieyeva said.They were totally indifferent.''
Two emergency services workers were killed and three wounded during the chaos, Interfax reported. More than 10 special services officers were killed, the news agency reported.
Two major hostage-taking raids by Chechen rebels outside the war-torn region in the past decade provoked Russian rescue operations that led to many deaths. The seizure of a Moscow theater in 2002 ended after a knockout gas was pumped into the building, debilitating the captors but causing almost all of the 129 hostage deaths.
In 1995 - during the first of two wars in Chechnya in the past decade - rebels led by guerrilla commander Shamil Basayev seized a hospital in the southern Russian city of Budyonnovsk, taking some 2,000 people hostage. The six-day standoff ended with a fierce Russian assault, and some 100 people died.
09/04/04 09:03
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Perhaps negations with the Nazis should have taken place as well? I view those who take children hostage, shooting them in their backs when they try and flee, or blowing them up no better. If Chechens allow themselves to be represented by child killers you can't expect Russia to have negations with them.
[/QUOTE]
Blinding oneself to the inevitable doesn't mean it aint gonna happen. The nazi's were a ruling party of a country a tangible enemy with an army, the people in chechnya are fighting for independance against overwhelming odds and brutal repression, as their plight becomes more extreme so do their methods, this cylce has to be broken. More violence from the Russian army will result in more acts of extremism.
I honestly don't see what the Russian army can do more militarily, have you seen what chechnya looks like, I'm surpirised the sun shines in that place at all, there is so much death and destruction there. Yet you advocate more, there must now surely be a time to see another way, if it were left to people like you the region would be ensured more innocents dying for many years to come.
since russia started this bloodshed by expanding its empire to include the people of chechnya way back in history, it has the responsibility to end the voilence. the more russians kill chechens, the more russians will be killed...its a do or die situation. russia must apologize for its past mistakes and abandon hopes of its imperialist agenga to be implemented in caucases otherwise the cycle of voilence will not end.
unless the entire chechen race is eliminated.
Dear Readers,
Mushrakeens have different way of life and muslims have different way of life. We are never ever allowed to kill or take some ones live.
We do not have religious law of tit for tat.
Mushrakeens have.
We must follow, islamic, religious obligations through its fixed principles of life.
Actually the problem lies in muslims is as follows:
We do not know that killing anyone is gounnahe kabera and is unforgiveable sin. The punishment of this sin is Jahannam straight awy. God would not forgive Gounahe kaberas what ever way you ask forgiveness.
You may get forgiveness if the immediate family member of that murdered person forgives you or accepts KHOUNE BAHA.
In order to establish this fact that those who had done gounahey kaberas in past history, are already forgiven by GOD, by their repentance. Such as Yazeed and others; muslims can not speak the, or face the truth that gounahe kaberas are having relation with other people and they should be asked for forgiveness, not GOD at first place, then GOD may or may not forgive . It depends on GOD. No one is sure till date until the promised day of judgement would reach that who would be in jannat and who would be in jahannum. God has principle of having day of judgement. He would not break it, for some one.
So in order to save some or few people namous , muslims have not been told the difference between , unforgiveable sins and forgiveable sins.
But alas ! how do wrong doers ,our muslims approve of their non islamic, acts and how do they copy the acts of mushrakeen without any hesitations. Only GOD can give them Hidayat and we all must pray for them. Bye sokoon
Were you crying & your eyes were all blur when you read this thread that you did not read this part?
I wrote what I heard from the news, how does that mean that the rebels were innocent.
Read my comments here too…
http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162582
Ghussa siraf tayray ko nahin a raha. Many have been disgusted by this.
Shame on the Muslims and whatever they stand for.
Yep, I guess that about covers them all then. 