Humanity Needs and Technology

[ajazali]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

Sorry, I have yet to see any valid point from Psyah bhai.

I gave simple very simple examples of knife and wristwatch. What is wrong with those examples sir? Afterall they are also examples of technologies to which people have become used to and now have become the need. Moreover what I meant was that use of knife can be beneficial and can be harmful. It is up to the user.

Like I said, no one is forcing anyone to use any technology.

One can easily not buy iphone at all let alone worry about its different models.

If someone want to continue to live in a house with older furniture, that person has no gun to his head to buy new furniture.

If someone does not want to have fast internet, slower internet for basic use is also available.

Why even use internet to begin with? Isn't it not something which people can live without if the argument is live with simple life or not to fall in to temptations?

No one is forcing people to abruptly change to keep up with ANY technology. Stay living in 80's and 90's. Or even in 50's. Fine.

Using smartphone for business is wrong but using desktop is acceptable???? Isn't desktop also a technology made by corporates to make money and make a false need? Similarly, after 5 years you may say, smartphones are fine, but why use a newer technology?? Just conspiracy from corporates.

I have no idea why you may have problem loading e-mail on broadband. One can load e-mail in a matter of seconds on smartphone these days, let alone the broadband.

At least desktop is considered acceptable as newer technology than no desktop at all. But desktop cannot be taken outside the house.

[By using smart phones there are a lot of people who have saved lives, made money, get connected to loved ones in emergency, managed their day to day appointments, etc. etc. etc. and their use has been proven to be beneficial for mankind]

People can travel by bicycle, and not use car they are free to do so. Then again why even use bicycle? Just walk. Good for health.

No one is forcing to fulfill anyone's needs.

Bolded part in your post is kind of analogy of 'interior and latest model furniture' i have given in my post earlier. :)
Just see how people mostly use desktop systems and mobile phone. As i said you don’t know more than one percent of what of your smart phone can perform. Somewhat similar is the case with desktop system. Then why not use cheap things to fulfill your needs. You are missing the point of need. If you think that endless (blindly) possibilities of fun and entertainment is need then you are rightly influenced by media. :)

[QUOTE]

It is the people who are wrong falling in to temptations, not the technology and not the corporates. :)
[/QUOTE]

I can go into details but i dont think it would work.
Now, please answer precisely that who is offering this stuff to people that cause wrong falling in to temptations???
I am trying to settle the discussion.

[psyah]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

The emperor has no clothes on ... I say so and diwana says I'm stupid to say so.

[diwana]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

Bolded part in your post is kind of analogy of 'interior and latest model furniture' i have given in my post earlier. :) Just see how people mostly use desktop systems and mobile phone. As i said you don’t know more than one percent of what of your smart phone can perform. Somewhat similar is the case with desktop system. Then why not use cheap things to fulfill your needs. You are missing the point of need. If you think that endless (blindly) possibilities of fun and entertainment is need then you are rightly influenced by media. :)

I can go into details but i dont think it would work. Now, please answer precisely that who is offering this stuff to people that cause wrong falling in to temptations??? I am trying to settle the discussion.

I think I mentioned that one cannot take desktop outside. it cannot fit in the pocket.

For those who do not want to use smartphone and prefer desktop and think they have no need for smartphones, then they can just not buy smartphone.

But a lot of people have the need to use something outside. Not just for entertainment,..... for their needs. Corporate does not create needs, it simply provides items which people need. That's all.

Why did you even buy desktop Aijaz bahi? Wasn't it your need? Or was it for entertainment?

Before desktops people used to send letters via mail and pay for it every time (and still do) but a lot of people use desktops (and smartphones) for e-mails...free of charge no matter how many emails or conversations are made. They pay internet fee, and that's all.

If you say it was your need, then there you go. There are people who need smartphones. Maybe not others.

Speaking of internet.....need or fun, it all depends on the person not on technology.

[ajazali]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@diwana

I think I mentioned that one cannot take desktop outside. it cannot fit in the pocket.

For those who do not want to use smartphone and prefer desktop and think they have no need for smartphones, then they can just not buy smartphone.

But a lot of people have the need to use something outside. Not just for entertainment,..... for their needs. Corporate does not create needs, it simply provides items which people need. That's all.

Why did you even buy desktop Aijaz bahi? Wasn't it your need? Or was it for entertainment? Before desktops people used to send letters via mail and pay for it every time (and still do) but a lot of people use desktops (and smartphones) for e-mails...free of charge no matter how many emails or conversations are made. They pay internet fee, and that's all.

If you say it was your need, then there you go. There are people who need smartphones. Maybe not others.

Speaking of internet.....need or fun, it all depends on the person not on technology.

You didnt answer my question, if people are falling in to temptations, who is offering them such stuff?
by that logic anyone have the right create anything, people are wise enough to buy not that stuff. Then same is the case with rule of law, there is no need to implement rule of law people are wise enough to follow the trafic rules.

[diwana]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@ajazali

You didnt answer my question, if people are falling in to temptations, who is offering them such stuff? by that logic anyone have the right create anything, people are wise enough to buy not that stuff. Then same is the case with rule of law, there is no need to implement rule of law people are wise enough to follow the trafic rules.

We are talking about technology, not rule of laws or laws.

Laws and rule of laws have to do with disciplining people.

Technology and its need or use (for good or bad) are completely separate discussions.

Corporates create items and advertise their benefits. This can be false or true. People need to decide if they really need them or not.

If people have no need for the items, they should not buy those items. Very clear concept.

[ajazali]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@diwana

We are talking about technology, not rule of laws or laws.

Laws and rule of laws have to do with disciplining people.

So technology should be free from law?

[QUOTE]

Technology and its need or use (for good or bad) are completely separate discussions.

Corporates create items and advertise their benefits. This can be false or true. People need to decide if they really need them or not.

If people have no need for the items, they should not buy those items. Very clear concept.
[/QUOTE]

Read the title of the thread. that is what we want to discuss this thread.

[diwana]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@ajazali

So technology should be free from law?

I wrote something like that but deleted.

Technology is not free from laws. But those laws are made to control production, their obvious harm to people and potential abuse as each and every society feels appropriate.

If the laws are approving them, then it is up to individuals to decide. The consumers of technology have ultimate responsibility.

[diwana]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

Again, I thought we were talking about technology and mankind.

Not laws and technology or rule of laws and technology.

[ajazali]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@diwana

Again, I thought we were talking about technology and mankind.

Not laws and technology or rule of laws and technology.

Does that mean i cannot give you example or analogy? I just give you example of implementation of Law.
However, my question still stands that is "people are falling in temptation, but who is causing this problem?"
You have acknowledged that problem exists at one end but denying that problem exists at the other end.
please answer my question precisely.

[diwana]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@ajazali

Does that mean i cannot give you example or analogy? I just give you example of implementation of Law. However, my question still stands that is "people are falling in temptation, but who is causing this problem?" You have acknowledged that problem exists at one end but denying that problem exists at the other end. please answer my question precisely.

Aijaz bhai;
I know what you have been saying.

Should be blame Shaitan for our wrong deeds or ourselves for falling in to temptations?

Even Allah will not buy our excuse of blaming Sahitan.

For technology: People know what they need so why not stick to their use of technology as per their needs?

What do parents tell kids when the ice cream vendor or golay gunDay Wala comes ringing bells or playing music?

[kakaballi]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

Technology gives people, towns, cities, nations competitive edge. The physical resources in the world are limited and technology enables people to use those resources more efficiently, gaining superiority over others.

That's the sole reason why advancement would never stop.

[ajazali]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@diwana

Aijaz bhai; I know what you have been saying.

Should be blame Shaitan for our wrong deeds or ourselves for falling in to temptations?

Even Allah will not buy our excuse of blaming Sahitan.

For technology: People know what they need so why not stick to their use of technology as per their needs?

What do parents tell kids when the ice cream vendor or golay gunDay Wala comes ringing bells or playing music?

no one is blaming shaitan, we are identifying what is wrong with this 'blind' advancement.
we are dicussing needs, buying your children icecream has nothing wrong if you have money.
again you are missing the problem at the other end. do you see golay wala in streets of developed countries? reason is a check that govt have on selling food. its not like let them sell what ever they want and let people decide theselves if it is good or bad.
although it may not be possible to place similar checks on smart phone like extravagances but the thesis of thread is "with this craziness world is not heading in right direction".
And if you know what i am trying to say why are you escaping my queation?
if people are wrong falling in temptations then what should we call those who are causing it?

[ajazali]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@kakaballi

Technology gives people, towns, cities, nations competitive edge. The physical resources in the world are limited and technology enables people to use those resources more efficiently, gaining superiority over others.

That’s the sole reason why advancement would never stop.

you cannot qoute a single line from my posts where i have said like advancement should be stopped. i said advancement should be bounded by needs not by artificial needs and making people fool.
people in Lahore have latest gadgets and vehicles is not because of need but pervasive trends of this modern world.
there are two angle of context of this thread. one is need based development and other is craziness.

I dont understand why people are jumping to conclusion that I am anti technology. technology advancement is good but not all the advancements are based on needs , actually not most of advancements today are based on needs.

its another story that the system is flawed.
when you develop an new model of car you need to incorporate more advanced information technology to counter theft. its another story that sytem itself is flawed.

and how can i dare to speak against this system in such a pervasively influenced by modern trends environment

[diwana]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@ajazali

no one is blaming shaitan, we are identifying what is wrong with this 'blind' advancement. we are dicussing needs, buying your children icecream has nothing wrong if you have money. again you are missing the problem at the other end. do you see golay wala in streets of developed countries? reason is a check that govt have on selling food. its not like let them sell what ever they want and let people decide theselves if it is good or bad. although it may not be possible to place similar checks on smart phone like extravagances but the thesis of thread is "with this craziness world is not heading in right direction". And if you know what i am trying to say why are you escaping my queation? if people are wrong falling in temptations then what should we call those who are causing it?

Bhai!

There is no blind advancement per se.

People needs drives technology and technology provides what people MAY need.

What we may call extravagance, maybe a legit need for other. It all depends on the person.

There are so many items which went in to oblivion when people did not find their needs and that happened even in very early stage of their creation.

I am completely aware of how (evil) corporates allure people to buy their products and how they try to scam people to continue to spend more money.

Still it is up to people to not fall in to trap.

P.S. (I gave example of temptations when talked about ice cream or golay vendor)

Ice cream vendors are allowed on streets of developed countries. They use vans, not open cart these days.

All kind of unhealthy, cheap (but clean) food is available on streets in developed countries too. It is up to people to buy or not.

[queer]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

but vat if satan is using technology to lure innocent humans towards sin? he be like, hey innocent human, here, use this ipad to forget all about the big guy in the sky who made you solely to worship him and now you be happy and busy!

[diwana]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@ajazali

....... we are dicussing needs, buying your children icecream has nothing wrong if you have money. .......

With same logic, buying newer technology has nothing wrong if you have money.

[kakaballi]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@ajazali

you cannot qoute a single line from my posts where i have said like advancement should be stopped.....

I did not say that is 'should' or 'should not' be stopped. I just said that given limited resources, technological advancement is the ONLY way for several economies to compete and survive. It is not possible to restraint such advancement, like it or not. Its the story of human civilization. Throughout history, the civilizations that were technologically advanced always dominated the less advanced ones.

P.S. Personal gadgets are a tiny part of recent technological advancements.

[psyah]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

Here are some more things you can look in to … to get an idea of technology in food …

[diwana]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@psyah

Here are some more things you can look in to … to get an idea of technology in food …

So what is your take on these videos Psyah bhai?

I only heard half of second video. She seems to be too distracted and has very disconnected thoughts which made me .

[psyah]

Re: Humanity Needs and Technology

@diwana

So what is your take on these videos Psyah bhai?

I only heard half of second video. She seems to be too distracted and has very disconnected thoughts which made me .

They are both only about 11 or 12 minutes each … listen to them please … getting bored at such short videos is not favourable - it means you are trying not to listen …

The argument underlying these is reflecting my earlier statements …

Technology is driven by sales and is focusing more on habit and that what drives people to spend … In the food industry we are led to believe that GM food is the way to cure hunger … the argument being made here is that mass food made in such ways that end up ruining the industry has long term ill effects to the living world … it is better to eat wholesome … we are getting an inflation in food by thinking that the strains that have been modified are better because they are more resilient which make stronger pests and so on … we are escalating the cycle of (pest vs resilience) sort of like what is happening with antibiotics - rather than providing real cures … It is all about how industry can profit from the food and then again from the protection against the pests … it is is vicious win win situation for the people in industry.

This is benefiting the few … that is technology at its heart … it is not neutral because it is spearheaded by a mechanism that is not in our direct control as individuals and is definitely not in our interest, but we are made to think it is … A few may make person benefit … but even those will suffer some side-effect.