a 13 year old can physically perform almost every other task. In 3rd world countries, a 13 years old male is a full fledged labor, farmer, fisherman and all. Its us as a society who assumed that 13 years old is not emotionally mature, and because we treat them as kids, they act as kids. Otherwise there is no medical proof that a 13 years old is not as responsible as 18 years old.
And that is what I said. Its all economics that drive the need of our adulthood age limit. Those societies that live humble lifestyle (basic food and shelter), not only 13 years old kids get married but live a very happy life.
In a third world country, a kid in that situation has no choice but to mature. That doesn't make it the right thing. I'm not usually a fan of society. Its evolution though, especially in medical care, allows us greater freedom when it comes to 'survival of the fittest'. We have choice where before there was none. We can choose quality of life for our kids, rather than just tether them to procreation duties.
Nature is always a work in progress, Majazi.
^ These are all social taboos that you listed Niksik. They have nothing to do with what nature's law (I wanted to say Allah's law but somehow Life1 crowd is allergic to that word)
"Allah's law"???? Explain that to me. Because I haven't come across any Islamic law which states that a female or male HAS to or MUST get married by a certain age. Don't recall any numbers.
Nature's law? Should the word "law" even be used? If you think that society's rules and laws regarding the legal age to get married don't take into account individual differences/development........than neither does the concept of "nature's law." Just because nature has enabled someone to reproduce doesn't necessarily mean that they have the emotional or mental maturity for marriage.
Also, having taught teenagers (and younger kids)....I don't think many 9 year old girls or even teenagers for that matter would be ready for marriage. There's a difference in the thought process....the ability to reason....the ability to think ahead and critically....that can be seen the various ages of children. I know a couple of girls who got married very early (not 9...but 16-18) and while *biologically" they were ready to be married off.....they wished that they had waited. I remember one of them saying that she wished she had waited so she could have gained more experiences do develop more of an individual mind. It might work for some...not for everyone. One mold doesn't fit all.
We are no longer a hunter/gatherer society, with the same survival or self-preservation instincts. Society and communities have evolved since that time and consequently how we raise our children and protect them and their innocence/masoomiyat leaves them ill-prepared to cope with childhood marriages.
An individual's physiological readiness should not be the sole determining factor - their emotional and psychological readiness matters more. We cannot nor do we want to turn the clock back on certain social norms - it represents the evolution of social/cultural norms and what may have been acceptable 50, 100 or 1000 years ago is no longer acceptable.
In a third world country, a kid in that situation has no choice but to mature. That doesn't make it the right thing. I'm not usually a fan of society. Its evolution though, especially in medical care, allows us greater freedom when it comes to 'survival of the fittest'. We have choice where before there was none. We can choose quality of life for our kids, rather than just tether them to procreation duties.
Nature is always a work in progress, Majazi.
If you switch the word Nature to word Allah, the sentence becomes invalid.
Btw, my example of 3rd world country and your reply to that proves that maturity is a matter of choice. We choose not to let our kids grow and that is why they dont grow mentally and emotionally.
sara, if age difference was such a big deal then nature would've prohibited it. Survival of the fittest is what evolution is based on. No other specie cares about the age difference, but humans. That means that these are human made standards and they are flawed.
Nature also permits inbreeding among animal species. It permits male animals to kill the young of a rival male so that he can propagate his own DNA and purge the genes of his rival. Nature permits certain animals to eat their own young upon birth.
And just because a standard is created by human beings doesn't mean it's flawed. Allah SWT has given us certain commands but He has also given us common sense. If He didn't want us to have standards He wouldn't have allowed us the power to think and come up with rational conclusions/answers. Just because He has permitted us to do something doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do for a particular person in a particular circumstance. For example, Islam allows marriages between cousins. Does that mean that cousin marriages are right for everybody? No...in fact, having such marriages repeatedly throughout every generation of a family has been known to result in genetic abnormalities/disease. So should a family in which there are many health issues continue with their tradition of inter-family marriages? They are certainly allowed to do so under Islam. But is it wise? Probably not.
lol, so if USA bans 5 time prayers, we should obey the law of the land?
btw, where did I say anything about second wife?
It was an example....keeray kyuN nikaal rahay ho?
There's nothing wrong with following your country's laws if they don't interfere with your beliefs. Prayers are obligatory...nobody is obligated to marry or be married at 13.
Niks, I can ask you the same question about today's social setup. How do you know that a 25 F/30 M couple is happy? How do you know that they wish they were not in that situation.
Society's norms is not always the right thing. I can guarantee you that someone in your grand parents got married at very young age. You are here, right. so that means that marriage survived well.
Yes someone in my grandparents did get married and I'm here so their marriage survived. That's it? So our life is all about producing children and surviving? How about accomplishing something in life? Making this world a better community for the future generations? Or just live like barbaric animals?
If you switch the word Nature to word Allah, the sentence becomes invalid.
Btw, my example of 3rd world country and your reply to that proves that maturity is a matter of choice. We choose not to let our kids grow and that is why they dont grow mentally and emotionally.
Then don't switch the word.:P I used nature for a reason.
No, maturity is not necessarily a matter of choice. It is a matter of circumstance. There is a difference. Think about it.
Looks like you are going to have your hands full now. I'll leave you to it. Enjoy.
If you switch the word Nature to word Allah, the sentence becomes invalid.
Btw, my example of 3rd world country and your reply to that proves that maturity is a matter of choice. We choose not to let our kids grow and that is why they dont grow mentally and emotionally.
Again.....while Allah has allowed something to take place.......doesn't mean that it's a "law" which everyone should abide by.
IMO, it's not necessarily that we don't allow kids to grow. One also has to consider the stages of cognitive development that children go through.....there is a general limit to the things (academic, social, emotional) that kids can handle and grasp at various age levels.
RedV, Sehrysh, El topo, Niks, Sara, Mistral, I am gonna reply to all of you in general.
It seems that you did not like my example of 13 years old treated as mature in 3rd world countries and old societies. Let me give you example of USA. A debate in USA judiciary system is going on if 12 and 13 years old criminals should be trialed as adults or not because of the seriousness of their crimes. Day in and day out, 13 years old are proving themselves to be mature enough to do anything and everything from writing software codes to hack into governments secret database to killing people.
Lets put the philosophy aside and give me raw data to prove that a 13 years old is not mentally and emotionally mature to get married.
^ but not all 13 year olds are like that. not every single 13 year old is capable of killing someone or writing software codes or mature enough to get married.
MK…You say that 13-year-olds are “proving” themselves to be “mature” enough to hack into government’s secret database and kill people. There’s a problem with that sentence. First of all, killing people and hacking into data bases, and violation of laws…without any regard for the consequences for oneself and others…IS NOT PROOF OF MATURITY. In fact…such impulsiveness and risk-taking behavior is associated with IMMATURITY.
Even if an **ADULT **had killed a person…would we consider that “maturity”??? I think not.
From the Society for Neuroscience website, here’s something interesting:
“Other parts of the brain also undergo refinement during the teen years. Areas associated with more basic functions, including the motor and sensory areas, mature early. Areas involved in planning and decision-making, including the prefrontal cortex – the cognitive or reasoning area of the brain important for controlling impulses and emotions – appear not to have yet reached adult dimension during the early twenties. The brain’s reward center, the ventral striatum, also is more active during adolescence than in adulthood, and the adolescent brain still is strengthening connections between its reasoning- and emotion-related regions.”
“Scientists believe these** collective findings may indicate that cognitive control over high-risk behaviors is still maturing during adolescence, making teens more apt to engage in risky behaviors. Also, with the brain’s emotion-related areas and connections still maturing, adolescents may be more vulnerable to psychological disorders.**”
Reckless behavior is not maturity. To say that a kid has the maturity to engage in reckless behavior…that kinda sounds like an oxymoron because it’s a contradiction.
MK, give me statistics. How many 13 year old are serial killers vs above 18?
How many 13 year olds get married and are able to fulfill their marital responsibilities?
On the other hand, most adult marriages (as defined by law, man-made if you please) have the potential to succeed. It is our own changing philosophies and lack of tolerance and abundance of distractions that are causing more and more failed marriages. Think about it, if 29-30 year old are so immature these days, what about humarey chotey bachey? Becharey :(
Your examples of trying a child as an adult and academic success is a comparison of apples and oranges and actually highlights why children should not marry young.
In the example of trying a child as an adult, the determination is made on a case by case basis - not every child criminal has the mental competence and therefore ability to intend the harm that resulted in murder. The laws require that children be treated as juveniles and to treat them as an adult would be an exceptional circumstance.
Likewise the child prodigy capable of writing software code is an exception - if all children were capable of doing so then all children would be tested on their ability to write computer programs as part of their standard curriculum.
My point is that just because you have an exception to the rule does not mean that you change the standards for the broader populace.
How many 13 year olds get married and are able to fulfill their marital responsibilities?
None, cause we never gave them that chance ..
on the other hand, I can tell you how many 13 and 14 years old mothers who are raising kids (n USA) because they had sex with their BF. Those who dump their kids or kill them is because of the taboo factor, not because of the lack of responsibility factor. I know that you will say that lack of responsibility is there that is why they had sex, but if they were married then the issue was never there to begin with.
Your examples of trying a child as an adult and academic success is a comparison of apples and oranges and actually highlights why children should not marry young.
what about my example of a 13 years old Chinese labor, or a 13 years old pakistani farmer or a 13 years old Thai fisherman? are these still apples to oranges comparisons?
In my earlier example, i mentioned them being labor, fisherman, farmers ... and the example was rejected because it belonged to 3rd world countries.
When I gave the example of developed countries, it was rejected because the acts I listed were immoral.
Now that is what I called mature argument, rejecting everything that is.
Okay....so.....just because a child is a fisherman or laborer makes him/her ready for marriage? Just because the child earns a living......or is adept in handling domestic chores (cooking, cleaning, sewing, etc)........makes them ready for marriage? Being able to handle a job and chores around the house does not necessarily mean that the person ALSO has the emotional and mental maturity for marriage. You seem to think that biological (reproduction) and physical capabilities (labor, etc) are all that one needs to get hitched. Not, so. To simplified.
Now, to each his own. I don't know if you're a male or female.............but if you feel so strongly about this...............then why not lead the way? Why don't you get married to 9-year-old girl? Or be the first to consider getting your daughter married at 13?