As most of you would know by now that Hadood ordinance has been ammended by the parliment of Pakistan, as expected MMA and ML(n) didnt participate in the voting. What do you people think will this amendment give women right that they deserve or is it just media publicity.
ps. personaly i think this bill is good!!!
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
its a step in the right direction. i dont know the specifics yet, but even scholars have stated that the previous hadood ordinance was just not right.
so i dont know if this is the perfrct solution yet, I will have to read the specifics, but any change in the right direction is a good change.
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
Look good, especially if the Maulana’s are fuming.
http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-11-15-voa27.cfm
**Pakistan’s Lower House Passes Landmark Women’s Rights Bill **
Pakistan’s lower house of parliament has passed a landmark bill amending the country’s controversial laws governing rape and adultery. The legislation, which has one more hurdle to clear, would overturn Pakistani laws that require women to produce four male witnesses to prove a rape case. Despite strong opposition from Islamists in parliament, Pakistan’s lower house passed the landmark legislation late Wednesday.
Speaker of the House Chaudry Ameer Hussain tallied the final vote.
"All those in favor of the motion may say ‘Aye.’
“AYE.”
“Against may say no … I think the ‘Ayes’ have it, the ‘Ayes’ have it, so the motion is adopted and the bill is passed.”
The law will now be forwarded to the country’s Senate, where the ruling party holds a commanding lead and is expected to pass the bill without major opposition. The legislation effectively shifts future rape cases out of Pakistan’s religious courts and into the country’s more moderate civil court system. Passage of the law would significantly curtail Pakistan’s conservative Islamic legal system and its so-called Hudood Ordinances, which were originally passed in 1979. Under those laws, women are liable to prosecution for adultery if they fail to produce four male Muslim witnesses to corroborate claims of rape. Pakistan’s conservative Islamic parties have strenuously rejected efforts to change the ordinances.
The MMA, a coalition of Islamist opposition groups, walked out of Tuesday’s parliament session before the vote was taken. An MMA official said the new law would violate Islamic principles and promote “free sex” in Pakistan. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has been pushing the country’s parliament to amend the Hudood Ordinances for several years. On Tuesday, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, told reporters the new law would protect the rights of women in Pakistan. He also said the law is in complete conformity with Islamic teachings.
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
I dont understand the statements by fazloo here, how would fixing a flawed law on rap e promote anything else...except fairness for victims?
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
PM Shaukat Aziz shakes hands with PPP-P leader - both look quite delighted.
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
Maulana Diesel was so fuming, that he walked out of the NA, and had to be escorted by the Sergeant-at-arms.
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
I hate those mulana's in parliment, they would never had come in power if it wanst the start of Afghnasitan war!! why dont they just stick to religon and let other people do politcs.
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
Regardless of what the bill propose, I think if the crime is proven then the punishment should be what is legislated in Islam, however we may need to improve on our methods for prosecuting. For instance, the four witness criteria in a rape case is just not possible these days. Forensic and DNA testing provide more reliable evidence now, the only question that remains to be sorted out is that whether it was rape or adultery. In case of rape the rapist deserves the punishment whereas in the case of adultery both get the punishment.
Now rape can happen by force however adultery cannot happen without mutual consent even if it starts out as adultery and mid one of the adulterers realizes what they are doing is wrong and they try to back out however the other party forces them into it, which more than probably would be the stronger one i.e. male, which is why both adulterers get the punishment.
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
who is the pehelwaan in the background in the tan jacket and talwar marka moonchain?
Re: Hadood ordinance Amended!!
Regarding change in Rape clause:
Fazloo said that, after passing of this legislation, Pakistan would become country of free sex. Probably what he meant was that, after new laws, raped victims (women) would not feel scared to bring rape cases to court, hence more rape cases would come in court, and thus on paper, rape would increase. That is different matter that in reality, rape would decrease substantially as today, rapist are protected, due to requirement of raped girl finding 4 witnesses to prove her case. Rape with immunity and without fear would disappear, though reporting of genuine cases would increase
It is obvious, as today it needs a lot of gut for a raped women to report rape case or bring rape case to court, as with rape claims, they have to bring 4 mard (male), practicing Muslim, Aqil (sane), balig (adult), trustworthy (should be of sound character) witnesses, else they can get accused of adultery. Now, they can bring rape cases to court if it has happened, without fear of adultery accusation.
Today: Her rape accusation becomes adultery (when any devious police personal, that most are, wants that to be), because when making rape claim, she confesses that she was involved in sex with someone. She could not prove that it was rape, as she could not bring 4 witnesses, hence if it was not rape, her confession can be taken as prove of adultery with someone, as she confessed of sex and sex has to be rape or adultery (and she could not prove it to be rape, so it has to be adultery)]. Thus, while rapist going free as she could not prove that rape with backing of 4 witnesses, she become victims.
Regarding change in Adultery clause:
Another part of coming law (what I believe) is that, false witness of adultery would mean automatic persecution and thus punishment (that is 10,000 fine and 5 year in prison). In previous hudud ordinance, persecution was not automatic. It was right of victim to persecute or forgo, who normally use to forgo persecution, as due to lack of knowledge or because people involved of accusation being her close one, and she being dependent on them, prefer to forgo. MMA was against this automatic persecution of witness (God knows why?).
Thus, if wrong witness of adultery cases automatically persecuted, no one would dare to give wrong witness. Hence, less adultery cases, but probably MMA with their devious logic may take it as, unreported incidence of adultery (or encouragement of adultery).
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
sorry if some guy and chic are necking and she says no to anything else, no is no. she can not be given the same punishment. or if the guy says no and is forced.. he can not be given the same punishment..necking and making out, although not allowed, are not the same as zina.
I also dont understand your statement of ‘can happen by force’ well of course, some sort of force or threat or drugging someone etc etc is the modus operendi ..
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
If I am not mistaken that is PPP-P MNA Syed Naveed Qamar from Sindh.
The PPP-P voted with government today for this bill, which shows shows that opposition and government can come together to pass meaningful laws to better the lives of so many.
Re: Hadood ordinance Amended!!
^ indeed..
just because they are rival parties does not mean they should nto be doing what is right and makes sense.
Re: Hadood ordinance Amended!!
Although I heard this bill was rather watered down from before, it still is a good sign to see the the Mullahs getting screwed and the secular progressive opposition working in tandem with the govt. This could be a good harbinger for future relations...
Re: Hadood ordinance Amended!!
Yup, rightist parties like the PML (Q) and PML (Functional) joined together with the liberals of the PPP-P, MQM, PPP-P (Patriots), and the PKMAP to pass this bill, while Mullahs of the MMA and the PML (Nawaz) largely walked out of the proceedings.
Now let’s see if the MMA keep their promise of resigning their seats in protest against this bill. Hope so. 
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
I also dont understand your statement of 'can happen by force' well of course, some sort of force or threat or drugging someone etc etc is the modus operendi ..
I agree, this is when an adultery has changed into a rape situation and if it is prevented from happening by some kind of intervention then what should be the hud imposed, that of adultery or rape or what?
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
Title: paisay transfer ki raseed kahan hai?
Re: Hadood ordinance Amended!!
BTW: I agree that we could utilise new methods (like DNA) to investigate adulterators/rapists and punish them both, not just women.
Re: Hadood ordinance Amended!!
Yes, few months ago when this entire debate began in the country, ironically Mullah's were against DNA tests too. There was a large article in Dawn. I'll try finding it and will post if located. But why they were against DNA tests, was again something no one could understand and Mullahs couldnt explain.
Re: Hadood ordinance Ammended!!
I hate this hiopcracy, these opposition leaders besides Imran, are always in pics broad smiles shaking or hugging the very government they talk so much shhhtt and condemn and say that pakistan is going down drain, in front of QAUM on tv they act so hostile, they mislead the people! !