^ its comments like yours that make that process difficult.
haa.. ehsan bhai, do tell me what part of my sentence is wrong. The process is difficult because Pakistanis are not excepting the facts. They come up with conspiracy theory for every fact produced.
Edited%between%
This is the most lamest thread.
Actually in a way I agree with you.
On one hand I am convinced that if it was not for Pakistan (I mean the condition of the country, not Pakistanis in general) , those 200 people who died in Mumbai would be living today. On the other hand, I am asking how we can revive the Indo-Pak relationship.
The way I see it is that there are parts of Pakistan's socio-political setup who do not seek any harm to India's interests (I am talking sportsmen, artists, journalists, average Pakistanis (bollywood/cricket watching types), even the executive branch of Pak's current Government). India's problems is only with the extremist folks in the population, the ISI and the Pak Army. Unfortunately, its the latter who will dictate whether we (India/Pak) tango.
They cannot imagine some of their own men could do such grave crime.
.
Own men?? Extremist nutcases have got no affiliation with any country or a religion.
Judging a nation by the actions of few illiterate losers is the most idiotic thing an educated person can do.
Pakistanis have a problem when people start blaming them, their country and their government for the wrong doings of few. Did we call India an extremist when we found out the Colonel Parohit was behind the Samjhauta Express bombing?
Own men?? Extremist nutcases have got no affiliation with any country or a religion.
Judging a nation by the actions of few illiterate losers is the most idiotic thing an educated person can do.
Pakistanis have a problem when people start blaming them, their country and their government for the wrong doings of few. Did we call India an extremist when we found out the Colonel Parohit was behind the Samjhauta Express bombing?
Own men, in the sense own country men. I haven't seen many people here condemning their country men for the violence they have done even after their own papers publishing news about Pakistani hand in the bombing.
Bhai Saab, it was Indian govt and our police force who caught coln. Purohit and company for the Melgoan blast and linked it to Samjhota. If proven guilty he and his group would be dealt with.
Pakistan is a no. 1 in the list of accusers when there are terrorist activity in India. This is wrong and Indian govt and people realised it after Melgoan and Samjhota. When there was series of blast in Banglore, Ahmedabad and Delhi, Indian govt did not blame Pakistan for it. But if you take the history; Parliament attack, Red Fort attack and Bombay blast; there was enough evidence that Pakistani nationals or asylum seekers were involved but still the govt of Pakistan or the pakistani people remained mute. If LeT was completely banned and sealed, bombay attack would not have happened.
You should realize that situations like this in history have started wars and world wars. So its a very serious issue for Pakistan that their nationals are caught killing in a neighbouring country.
haa.. ehsan bhai, do tell me what part of my sentence is wrong. The process is difficult because Pakistanis are not excepting the facts. They come up with conspiracy theory for every fact produced.
I guess to date we are waiting for fact to be produced. I hope India will also allow Pakistani consulate gen access to Ajmal (he is Pakistani citizen anyway if we go by India's claim). Having said that I am all for actions against any terrorism outfit if they are found guilty in light of evidence provided by India.
Re: How to love in the time of cholera ?
vineshvk, I am sure that even our Pak friends will agree (though some not so publicly) that Pakistan is a hotbed of terrorism. Elsewhere on this forum, you will find even Pakistanis asking if it is safe to travel to Pakistan.
The above said, I think it is possible to hate Pakistan (in its current condition) but still love average Pakistanis.
I have come to accept the fact that cutting off all ties with any country (especially a neighboring country) achieves nothing and breeds more bitterness. Therefore some channels for interaction must be left open.
By the way, it is actually quite refreshing to see you picking up the cudgels for India. I seemed like a lone ranger here a few weeks ago.
"Is it possible for one team to arrive in Mumbai and indulge in mass murder, and have another team go and play cricket in the winter afternoon sun at Lahore, immediately after?"
M S Gill, India's Sports Minister (quoted on Cricinfo)
"Is it possible for one team to arrive in Mumbai and indulge in mass murder, and have another team go and play cricket in the winter afternoon sun at Lahore, immediately after?"
M S Gill, India's Sports Minister (quoted on Cricinfo)
most probably his seat is up for grab in coming elections.
First of all we still have to see if it was a team from Pakistan but for the sake of argument lets assume it was in deed from Pakistan, stupid minister should not spray fuel on fire and should not play with the emotions of the public with this sort of bayanat. His job should be the betterment of sports. He should be telling to Indian people that even if terrorists were Pakistanis, we should not mingle that team with cricket team but nah, he is a politician and he has to win his seat again. poor minister finding it hard to stop BJP hawks!
Whats that sajjad ali lyric again? Paisa dekhao gay tau jaan bhi dey dey ga!
Actually its not sajjad ali, but it should have been in the chief saab song!
I think it is possible to hate Pakistan (in its current condition) but still love average Pakistanis.
The feelings always been mutual. None of us likes india. Its a pretty disliked and country world wide really. But none here really hate indians per se. Besides, we have a better odi AND test record on yall. :P so i can see why the hate.
Although its safe to say that even indians feel disgusted at their country; and that most of them are ignorant of the abundance of active and violent freedom seeking movements in their country. Its not their fault though, not entirely. poor souls. :(
Captain Saab....I was not trying to endear myself to you. As I said before, my views about Pakistan vis-a-vis Mumbai attacks have not changed.
This thread is about trying to have the Indo-Pak romance going again despite the strong anti-Pak sentiments in India (love in the time of Cholera).
Please don't try, I used to advocate Pakistan-India relationship long time ago but after seeing India (and Indians) behavior time after time I've given that up.
Re: How to love in the time of cholera ?
hm maybe i didnt see what some1 did exactly buy come on guys, one is allowed a 'passionate' session or two, especially given the circumstances. i know i have at times blamed humanity and complained about baba adam's actions for less.
vineshvk, I am sure that even our Pak friends will agree (though some not so publicly) that Pakistan is a hotbed of terrorism. Elsewhere on this forum, you will find even Pakistanis asking if it is safe to travel to Pakistan.
The above said, I think it is possible to hate Pakistan (in its current condition) but still love average Pakistanis.
I have come to accept the fact that cutting off all ties with any country (especially a neighboring country) achieves nothing and breeds more bitterness. Therefore some channels for interaction must be left open.
By the way, it is actually quite refreshing to see you picking up the cudgels for India. I seemed like a lone ranger here a few weeks ago.
"hotbed" of terrorism is a misnomer. You can say that Pakistan is under attack because USA strategy in Afghanistan went terribly wrong. If I am in Afghanistan and my brother is killed in an American attack, I would be very much prone to a suicide attack to avenge his death and it would be very easy to brainwash me to do that! I have not much to live for anyways. This is what West cannot relate to, since the value of life for westerners is too high compared to poor people in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I am not defending these 'suicide attacks' or similar activities, but just suggesting that these are result of a series of strategic mistakes from the Bush Administration. The afghans are proud people and they do not like to be ruled. They would rather die. This fact is not clear to the 'allied' forces.
I have been to the northern areas of Pakistan where there is a 'war on terrorism' going on. They are poor, simple, proud and beautiful people. And they are as much angered by what USA calls 'collateral damage' as Indians are after the Mumbai tragedy.
Re: How to love in the time of cholera ?
some1, didnt you quit the forum when I snubbed you for once posting 'I despise Pakistan and everything about it'?
Re: How to love in the time of cholera ?
^Oye Spocky.....I love you too much to quit because of your snub.
fkhan2 is another matter though.
btw, would you please point me to the post where I made that statement you accuse me of.
I am sure spocky knows how much you love him.
Anyway I am trying to come to terms with the fact that on this forum you are our major entertainment during off season when there is no Pakistani cricket going on.
*Kabhi moderator say naraz, kabhi kisi guppy say, kabhi khud apnay aap say, kabhi Indian team say kabhi Pakistan government say. Phir **Naraz ho kar chalay jana is waday kay saath kay phir nahin aoon ga wapas aur phir thori dair mein khud hee wapas aajana. *
Man.. this is nothing less than a PTV or Zee TV drama 
Re: How to love in the time of cholera ?
SL has said they will come over if India doesn't, so who cares, If the Indians don't. We played most of our cricket without Indians and were a dominant force during that time and when they did started playing us and got thrashed in Sharjah they ran away for 6 years claiming bias in everything except their own inability to beat the brilliant Pakistanis. When they did return after 6 years or so to Sharjah I was there and the enclosure I was sitting in was full of Indians and how everyone of them was telling me that Tendulkar and co were going to rout Paksitan. Towards the end of the match the enclosure was empty, guess why? Yes tendulkar had made 62, but Saeed Anwar made 64 in reply and in half the balls which tendulkar took and india as usual had lost. So pakistan cricket does not need Indian support to grow, it has done it without them in the past and can do it again in the future. Yes I am sure some of you are going to come here and say what about all the players who play in ipl and icl, well works both ways, you pay them they provide the talent. even if you ban them from your leagues they will survive. I am sure you will get Australians and English players too eager to replace them and not for the lure of the money but to show the terrorists that they cannot win. Indians might buy this, not many others :D
I wanted India to come but the way their leaders, media and public is behaving I say enough is enough. You want to come, come, otherwise get lost.
Re: How to love in the time of cholera ?
^ awww very un-ehsanic post ehsan bhai :)
Really ? So you expected the Indian leaders , media & public to do 
with Pakistan after it has been clearly established that the terrorists (non-state actors or not) who killed about 200 Indians came from Pakistan.
India’s response has actually been pretty meek as far as I am concerned.