Chaltahai, finding scapegoats is our specialty. I have always argued with my friends that we need to learn from our big neighbor and follow them blindly. They have finally started listening to me. You expel 4 diplomats, we follow, you do a blast, we do it better, you take a laxative, we siht in our pants. We are a nation of followers.
But I see what you are saying.
NYA.. Maybe its a new discussion, or maybe its not... but ok, since u say that the integrated policies is working very well in African states, so lets hear more of your solutions through integrated policies. (Mind you, I still think that bad traffic has more to do with a cultural factors rather than economic factors, but well... who knows.. maybe I am wrong).
In economics, we hear a term called "Vicious Cycle of Poverty" and how hard it is to break out of it. That was in college, and even at that point Pakistan seemed to be a classic case-study for this concept. You obviously read/taught/practiced more economics than most of us here combined. So, share some of the wisdom.
Thanks.
Faisal, in a nutshell, we need to address our traditional agricultural sector. The rural agricultural migration to urban industrial sector has created all of these problems (it has nothing to do with culture). What this migration has done is to overcrowded our urban centers not designed for it. On top of that, this migration not only affects the wages in both sectors but also the marginal productivity in both sectors (with each migrant the wage is suppressed, simple demand and supply fact). We have neglected our agricultural sector for over 40 years now, and what you see is the result of that neglect. From urban planning point of view, our cities were haphazardly designed and the traffic of today was never in the plans of those who built our cities. From allocation of resources standpoint, we spend more money on defense related issues than we can afford, and it creates suffering for other sectors of the economy, namely education. This is just in a nutshell. We will talk more.
The examples of other countries that I mentioned are mainly to do with setting up systems in place through better participation and democracy. These can be copied in Pakistan only if there is a desire to develope.
Interesting points. Many people know the rural-to-urban migration skews up the urban infrastructure. Though its hard to forcibly keep ppl in their villages, as everyone has a right to move to any place within the country. So the best way is to make incentives for ppl to stay put and that means creation of work opportunities (the cultivtable land can only be divided finite times in the next generations). Without viable alternatives, it is hard to keep people motivated in their homes.
Your point about defence spending is not new. Its been debated for as long as Pakistan came into being. The argument obviously goes that if u don't spend as much on defence, there won't be a Pakistan left to develop anyway. Not sure how long this argument will last, as successive military leaderships have milked this issue till the proverbial cow is now practically in coma.
And with huge debt re-payments, the pie is already considerably small by the time our development programs even have a chance to view it.
Faisal basically you are saying that it is wise to teach people traffic sense and not address the reasons that cause all the problems. You should consider working for the Pakistani government. You will fit right in.
No one is suggesting keeping people forcibly in rural sector. Do you know that our irrigable land is actually decreasing at a 2% rate (and you thought that the Amazon was bad). By this speed we will have a big water pond all over Punjab by the year 2035. The water table is going up at an unprecedented rate. You tell me if public policy has anything to do with it? Of course it does. The problem is that every tom and dick that leaves the country all of sudden becomes not only aware (but an expert) of Pakistan’s problems. I have even met Cabbies who can lecture on Pakistan’s problems, while they can’t even find a decent job for themselves.
Here’s the bottom line. The vested interests in the nation do not wish to see any development. Don’t tell me everyone knows about it. If they did, they would have done something about it. They are happy persecuting people, but god forbid they address the real issues.
The defense argument is a load of nonsense. Bangladesh doesn’t have half as much and they are still there, so is Afghanistan, and Burma, and Nepal. If anything our Armed Forces are keeping the country in the dark and for it to develop, along with the landed classes of the country.
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*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
The defense argument is a load of nonsense. Bangladesh doesn’t have half as much and they are still there, so is Afghanistan, and Burma, and Nepal. If anything our Armed Forces are keeping the country in the dark and for it to develop, along with the landed classes of the country.
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The military spend more time sitting as governing heads of the various sporting bodies, that might explain why there's so many of them - and why the defence expenditure is kept high.
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*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
Faisal basically you are saying that it is wise to teach people traffic sense and not address the reasons that cause all the problems.
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Nothing in my previous post had anything to do with traffic sense. What are you off to now?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
No one is suggesting keeping people forcibly in rural sector. Do you know that our irrigable land is actually decreasing at a 2% rate (and you thought that the Amazon was bad). By this speed we will have a big water pond all over Punjab by the year 2035. The water table is going up at an unprecedented rate. You tell me if public policy has anything to do with it? Of course it does.
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Solution?
Solution?<<<<
Faisal, are you an accountant or something? I mentioned that the Solution is to develop the agricultural sector, in terms of counting how many cows per hector that’s not my job, nor do I care about the details. For starters, read the ADB’s most current report to get an idea of what is involved. Another source is the Sustainable Development Institute in Islamabad. In addition, there are tons of Human/Social Development Institutes in Islamabad. I don’t know if their reports are available online, but these reports are available thru the UN, the Bank, or the Fund. People have been beating the same mantra for longer than I have lived. The problem is that no one has guts to implement any of the suggestions. For greater understanding read some of the TIDE reports (Trends in Development Economics, by the World Bank). Check out the Human Development Reports, etc.
When the economists say develop the agricultural sector, it doesn’t mean starting chicken manure factories in Dera Ghazi Khan, it means to restructure the agricultural sector via legislation by imposing tax for a starter, an agricultural tax, and then moving on to setting up farm credit and subsidies for small time farmers (the backbone of the economy) and moving towards decreasing the disparity of the wage structure. Basically paying attention to where it should be paid.
If you want to know how many goats be allowed per farm, I am not the right guy for that. They come dime a dozen, and I have little patience for them.