I have always wondered how the developed countries like US, UK, Europe, even Arab countries developed a culture of courtesy and abiding by traffic laws in their drivers. You see, driving within the lane, stopping on “Stop” signs. Following speed limits (to an extent). And general courtesy towards other drivers.
In Pakistan, we got great cars, and good roads (now). The only thing missing it seems is good driving sense. People cut in. Drive rashly. Are impatient.
The question is not why it is so. The question is how to improve it? How to get people to be more patient on the road.
Is the answer lies in the following:
Better driving tests to ensure only good drivers get license?
Making sure there is no corruption to get drivers license?
Get more traffic cops on the road to develop this good driving etiquettes through tickets and challans?
Hmm..I got my license without ever sitting for a test!!
I know of people who have killed people through reckless driving and gotten away with it. The system needs to be overhauled, one way is to devolve car related taxes to the districts but have a phased in system of tougher licensing and entry requirements. The only problem withd riving tests is how do you set one up for people who can't read or write?.
Faisal Bhaijan. Ever driven in Rome or Athens? It will make Lahori drivers look like most courteous and humble drivers on the planet.
Beside a little bit of chaos and indifference to authority is better than producing robots found on German Autobahns. Expressing individuality and selfness is very important part of development.
Along with better control of licence system and traffic cops we need a thorough transformation in our social system.. every person is chaudhry and breaking law is perceived such a high thing.. road rage and reckless driving should be punished severly.. abd culprits should be punished on spot by tickets and no sifarish to help them..
Degas..Driving is a civil right, and you don’t want to make it into a privilege. At the same time you don’t want to turn Pakistani driving scene into 80s India, where even the Prime Minister and mega stars drove those ugly ambassador cars. Variety of cars and variety of people offer a much better prospect onto the development path than a bunch of socialists dreaming to standardize nugatory issues such as traffic laws. For a public that is illiterate, obeying traffic laws or getting licenses should be the least of our concern. Until we produce a population that is educated, it all sounds like a big lemo dream to me.
Although I wouldn't discount it completely, but lack of education is one thing, and courtesy and patience is another. I know we have all kinds of driving rules in Pakistan. I guess my question how to develop a better driving etiquette and courtesy.
NYA, I don't agree that driving with a road rage is a sign of development or that we should not work on (or even think about) such issues, until we have 100% literacy. That seems like an excuse for not doing anything. If Italy has bad drivers, be it. Let them talk about it on italy.org if they wish. This one is about Pakistan, and lets look at those better than us rather than those who are worse off. I have seen traffic in Bangkok and Manila, and Pakistani traffic is 100 times better than those two. However, we still have a long way to go. And this is about what are some of the suggestions.
I agree with Degas, that we need to get over the hang-up of VIP culture. Police should have some respect so if you break a law, you know you will face the consequences, regardless of whether your chacha, maama or taaya is DIG or SP.
Fiasal, what if the Chacha Mama or Taya is a Tandoori or a Mouchee? Are you proposing a better treatment for them? I think we need to get out of this socialist way of thinking where we (even in our speech) only mention the higher classes. I know it just come out subliminally, but has a very deep-rooted significance.
I don't think a typical Pakistani traffic cop will let you go after you have broken a law, if you tell him that your chacha is a "mouchi" or a "dhobi".
But lets not trivialize the topic. I am looking forward for some decent input from you and others.
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*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
It is not my problem if you feel that you have all the answers.
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No one is pretending to have all the answers here. Its just brain-storming. Here is what you have said so far:
"A little bit of chaos and indifference to authority is better"
"For a public that is illiterate, obeying traffic laws or getting licenses should be the least of our concern"
"We need to get out of this socialist way of thinking where we (even in our speech) only mention the higher classes"
Yes, Pakistan may have a lot of economic and social problems. Here we are dealing with just one of those. Are you suggesting a totalitarian approach is the only way to move forward? Or are there small steps along the way which can take care of specific problems to a large extent, one at a time.
Yes Faisal, I standby what I said. Out of chaos come the solutions, call it hitting the rock bottom. Once there’s nothing deeper to go, the only way is up. China is opening up slowly, but there remains a danger in it going back to 100 % central control over every aspect of life. Russia on the other hand abandoned the old ways in a jiffy. In Pakistan, slow reforms are not going to achieve jack. Unless we can first educate our masses, the problems that are endemic (pollution, road rage, etc.) are not going to disappear. In Lahore for example, the traffic has increased over 600 percent in the last 10 years, while the roads (although a bit wider and a bit cleaner) have remained pretty much the same. I don’t see how we can expect an orderly traffic when there is not enough room on the street. It will be like seating 20000 people in a movie hall made for 200 people. Think about it.
What we can do is to press our governments to spend less on nukes, and build a subway in Lahore to ease the traffic.
In all honesty, personally I am least bothered with the traffic scene in Lahore. I can understand why others might feel differently.
I have seen worse traffic jams here in California. Roads here are not called 'Parking lots' for no reason. I have seen occassional road rage incidents. But no where to the same degree of almost total disregard for basic courtesy for others on the street. Is it merely because roads are small and more cars are ploughing on them? Maybe. Or maybe the problem is that there is something basic missing. I refuse to believe that people are impatient and impolite just because they are uneducated. There has to be something else as well. "Why" is just one part of the equation, more importantly "how" can be it be improved.
Fraudia,
Yes. The question is not what is wrong and why it is wrong. My aim is to get some brain-storming on what are practical steps which the government and/or the people should take to improve the situation back home. Those who live in the western countries see the road culture here. Those who move from Pakistan to here adopt these road manners in very short time. What can be done to implement these same road manners back home?
Fraudz: Did you ever notice, that the streets laden with the kachra and the sidewalks that are Splattered with paan juice but if you go to a Five Star hotels, even the paan waala uses the garbage can. Says something about the psyche.
Faisal, the big word in development economics these days is “integrated” policies. Tackling problems from various ends. Nothing exists in isolation. Road rage is one way of expressing oneself in absence of other outlets to express yourself. If you build cinemas, casinos, bars, peepshows, it will solve a multitude of problems. I was in Saudi Arabia a number of times for few days at a time, and I have never seen such fast drivers all my life, doing Indy 500 on city streets. They have the best roads and latest model cars. Driving fast and reckless was their way of showing that they are frustrated. In Pakistan it is pretty much the case. In august heat, don’t expect a Riksha driver to worry about which lane to stay in. It just doesn’t work for a poor guy sweating his arse off to earn a meal.
There is certainly no magic wand that can transform traffic in a day and we cant just start Zia style flogging to make traffic better but some improvements can be done to faciliate despite all hurdles.. all schools should start using buses and load on cars for school could be lowered.. even my old school Aitchison have started doing this effectively .. bus drivers could be regulated and rash drivers barred to prevent loss of life.. more public buses with effective routes to relief population.. traffic laws and rules taught at school.. and many other things
My aim is to get some brain-storming on what are practical steps which the government and/or the people should take to improve the situation back home.
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Faisal..once you know the causes of it..you can come up with ways to counter it. short term quick improvemnt will be to increase enforcement. long term and more permanent solution will be to educate kids thats its improper, increase awareness of it in general population and make it a national issue.
NY...road rage, not only due to absence of things to do, but when the transport infrastructure fails you and you have to deal with it day in day out, it will push you towards road rage. heck I get mad as hell when a 10 mile stretch of a highway takes 30 mins to complete.
so in traffic terms, if people just have not taught or made aware of some proper behavior, know that no one can enforce jack, and are generally ticked off at the traffic mess anyways..you have the right formula for the type of driving behavior we see.
CH,
it not only psyche..if you are a paan wala by a 5 star hotel, your client mix will be a lil diff, secondly the 5 star hotel will not put up with someone dirtying up its surroundings and they will make the cops enforce the littering rules, and in some cases have staff that keeps the outside of the hotel and streets clean. I know Dinsha Avari, of Avari Towers in Karachi, way back in the early 90's they had sweepers who would clean up one block in each direction of the hotel, move bums and all that stuff.
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*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
Road rage is one way of expressing oneself in absence of other outlets to express yourself.
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You bring up an interesting point. I have travelled to KSA, Oman and UAE, and I have seen that even the bedouins in Jeddah drive in their lanes, give space to you when you are changing lanes, stop on the "Stop" signs, don't barge in to claim a parking spot when u had your indicator on, and obey most traffic rules. Same is in Oman. Yeah, they drive fast, as much as they can, especially inter-city, but you won't find the mad-house of contempt for driving laws and traffic etiquette even in places like Saudi and Oman. Your experience may be different. So, there gotta be more evidence to support lack of entertainment opportunities to lack of road etiquettes.
Degas brings an important suggestion. Better public transport, so people leave their cars are home, and travel in comfortable and reliable buses. Have less cars on the road, less congestion, and less frustration. Right now, I have seen households of 4 people with 6 cars standing in the drive way, including one for the khansamaa and one for the gardner. Also, important is to teach the respect for law at schools. Corruption free police force, and more importantly to ingrain in people a sense to be a little patient on the road.
I am sure members here will be able to come up with some more ideas. Think out of the box.