Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
^^ yea just like if the hubby and wife both agree, she shud be allowed to have another husband.
according to quran , one can't marry a married women , no matter his husband agrees or not
so there is totaly no , in this case
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
Bro Hyp 2000
I do not agree with your statement that it is not a Quranic concept in peaceful times. Children are not orphaned only in war times. This verse is about Guardians of orphan girls who marry then without dower or to usurp their wealth. It is saying if you fear you would subject any orphan girl over whom you have guardianship then you should not marry them but rather seek independent other women where you cannot do such. Then at the same time it also provides the upper cap on how many wives we are allowed to marry.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
Ok I have to give this time to sync in before I reply to your post. Interesting. For now, I do not think this is the case for it says “then you may marry those who are agreeable to you of/from (min) the women”…
Unless we had an option/idea to marry two/three/four of the men as well, I’d agree with you.
PS: when would orphans become a major issue to take drastic steps like these?
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
Ok I have to give this time to sync in before I reply to your post. Interesting. For now, I do not think this is the case for it says "then you may marry those who are agreeable to you of/from (min) the women"...
Unless we had an option/idea to marry two/three/four of the men as well, I'd agree with you.
PS: when would orphans become a major issue to take drastic steps like these?
Its talking about women who are not under your guardianship. It couldn't possibly mean those who agreeable to marry you from those orphan girls over whom you have guardianship even though you are unjust to them. What kind of fairness would that be in the context of the verse where it is saying to be just to them and avoid marrying them with the intention of usurping their dower.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
PS: when would orphans become a major issue to take drastic steps like these?
The Surah is more about women not specifically war and orphans. It just stated one of the category of women permissible in marriage alongwith their due rights.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
Its talking about women who are not under your guardianship. It couldn't possibly mean those who agreeable to marry you from those orphan girls over whom you have guardianship even though you are unjust to them. What kind of fairness would that be in the context of the verse where it is saying to be just to them and avoid marrying them with the intention of usurping their dower.
:) It may not be talking about the orphaned girls, but it is not talking about any woman outside guardianship either IMO. It may be referring to widows who have sought shelter in your house, or who have somewhow ended up becoming your responsibility.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
:) It may not be talking about the orphaned girls, but it is not talking about any woman outside guardianship either IMO. It may be referring to widows who have sought shelter in your house, or who have somewhow ended up becoming your responsibility.
Widows would be under your protection not guardianship.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
Widows would be under your protection not guardianship.
which brings you back to being just to the orphans... why would this be an issue and in what circumstances.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
which brings you back to being just to the orphans... why would this be an issue and in what circumstances.
Heheh! Actually it bring you back to my point. The verse is pretty comprehensive and talking about orphan girls whom you can marry, women you are allowed to marry, maximum number of women you can have as your wife and captives you can marry. It is not saying you can only be polygamous in times of war anywhere. That is but one case where this verse would find applicability but not limited to that situation, which brings me back to what I had disagreed with, its not limited to being a wartime concept only. Like I said orphans and widows are not created only in times of war. If we look at the verse as you are then those widows and orphans who are not created outside of a war time would have no relief from the pressures of society. Widows could only be wed to unmarried men.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
"unjust" means subjecting them to sex outside marriage (whether consentual or not, although I take it to mean mostly rape and molestation, extortion of labor, etc).
That instead of mistreating them, marry them.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
your response to my question "which brings you back to being just to the orphans... why would this be an issue and in what circumstances." was:
Heheh! Actually it bring you back to my point. The verse is pretty comprehensive and talking about orphan girls whom you can marry, women you are allowed to marry, maximum number of women you can have as your wife and captives you can marry. It is not saying you can only be polygamous in times of war anywhere. That is but one case where this verse would find applicability but not limited to that situation, which brings me back to what I had disagreed with, its not limited to being a wartime concept only. Like I said orphans and widows are not created only in times of war. If we look at the verse as you are then those widows and orphans who are not created outside of a war time would have no relief from the pressures of society. Widows could only be wed to unmarried men.
Mine is that it would be an issue if there was a very large number of widows and orphans... it will be a community based effort in order to provide support. As with marriage it will be an obligation under law to provide support to the dependants. That is my point.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
This thread sounds more and more like what the mulla wants the HQ to have said rather than using ones brain. Simple - if polygamy is ok then polyandry is ok. Anything else is serious discrimination and anybody claiming HQ and Allah discriminate is commiting blasphemy.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
This thread sounds more and more like what the mulla wants the HQ to have said rather than using ones brain. Simple - if polygamy is ok then polyandry is ok. Anything else is serious discrimination and anybody claiming HQ and Allah discriminate is commiting blasphemy.
I do not think it says polygamy is ok in any sense of the word... at best, it is a compromise at a community level.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
your response to my question "which brings you back to being just to the orphans... why would this be an issue and in what circumstances." was:
Mine is that it would be an issue if there was a very large number of widows and orphans... it will be a community based effort in order to provide support. As with marriage it will be an obligation under law to provide support to the dependants. That is my point.
I think we are discussing different things or unable to understand each other here. What I disagreed with was your statement about Polygamy not being a Quranic concept in times of peace" but permitted as a result of wars when children may become orphaned and women widowed. This is where I disagreed saying that Polygamy is permitted even in times of peace and the Quranic verse (4:3) is not specificallly talking about war times because none of the verses before it state a war context or dhilren can be orphaned even in times of peace and require guardians and women can be widowed in times of peace and would possibly want to remarry. So polygamy is not subject to wars but could be beneficial more in times of war though.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
PCG
Are you refering to verse 4:3?
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
I think we are discussing different things or unable to understand each other here. What I disagreed with was your statement about Polygamy not being a Quranic concept in times of peace" but permitted as a result of wars when children may become orphaned and women widowed. This is where I disagreed saying that Polygamy is permitted even in times of peace and the Quranic verse (4:3) is not specificallly talking about war times because none of the verses before it state a war context or dhilren can be orphaned even in times of peace and require guardians and women can be widowed in times of peace and would possibly want to remarry. So polygamy is not subject to wars but could be beneficial more in times of war though.
Perhaps we can look at it in that light... however, I do not think in times of fluorishing and peaceful times would Orphans or Windows be an issue since the STATE can take care of the matter.
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
This thread sounds more and more like what the mulla wants the HQ to have said rather than using ones brain.** Simple - if polygamy is ok then polyandry is ok**. Anything else is serious discrimination and anybody claiming HQ and Allah discriminate is commiting blasphemy.
have you ever read the quran with translation
polyandry is not allowed
polygamy is allowed but not recommended and only allowed with condition which according to quran , comman man is unable to do so , so man should avoid this
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
I do not think it says polygamy is ok in any sense of the word... at best, it is a compromise at a community level.
agreed
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
Perhaps we can look at it in that light... however, I do not think in times of fluorishing and peaceful times would Orphans or Windows be an issue since the STATE can take care of the matter.
The state would still appoint someone to be a guardian or foster parent if possible. And widows would still want to be married or does being in peaceful times take away their urge to have a sexual life if they have no economic problem (state welfare).
Re: how many wifes is a muslim allowed?
The verses might not have a context of war around them, but one must remember that bits and pieces of the Quran were put together out of the order they were revealed in, for one. Secondly, the Quran was revealed in a time of constant warfare, near anarchy and severe corruption. The implications of these verses would be different in present day Darfur vs. Manhattan.