Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Nope. That was the opinion of the priest. Not fact. But we all know you enjoy made up stories a lot more.
Re: UN Condemns the Dutch Film
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Re: UN Condemns the Dutch Film
Islam was spread in India, North Africa and into Spain by the sword
Islam was spread in Indonesia by Muftis who sailed there to spread Islam and because the Arabs lacked the resources to launch a naval invasion of Indonesia
Absolutely...every Christian apart from the Mid East is result of the crusades and inquisition.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Was everyone on spring break?
Yes, the land ruled by Caliphs was won by conquest or sword. Those who fought in battles against the Muslim armies were offered only two choices: To convert or die. But the general population was never converted by the sword.
Conversely, when Catholics recaptured Spain or south thereof (al-Andalus), population was converted back to Christianity by sword. Terror of the inquisitors rained there from 1492 until the Protestant Napolean liberted it in 1808. Atrocities of the Church is the reason behind the seperation of Church and State in today's West.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Was everyone on spring break?
Yes, the land ruled by Caliphs was won by conquest or sword. Those who fought in battles against the Muslim armies were offered only two choices: To convert or die. *But the general population was never converted by the sword. *
highlighted part is not true. muslim rulers made the life of the general public miserable if they did not convert. discriminatory taxation, destruction of places of worship and mistreatment was the way they 'ruled' to force them to convert. That is also why a vast majority of muslim population in the Indian sub-continent even today cannot truly be considered muslims since i wasn't their choice.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
highlighted part is not true.** muslim rulers made the life of the general public miserable if they did not convert. discriminatory taxation, destruction of places of worship and mistreatment was the way they 'ruled' to force them to convert. That is also why a vast majority of muslim population in the Indian sub-continent even today cannot truly be considered muslims since i wasn't their choice**.
The bold part is clearly untrue...the Muslim treatment varied from ruler to ruler, empire to empire. By the same token, Muslims within Hindu dominated areas were not always treated well, and hell...Muslims that were on the wrong side of the imperial army were also not treated well.
The very idea of sub continental Muslims not being "true" Muslims because of your allegation they were forced into Islam (which is more a fantasy of yours than historical fact) smacks of a great ignorance...
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
The bold part is clearly untrue...the Muslim treatment varied from ruler to ruler, empire to empire. By the same token, Muslims within Hindu dominated areas were not always treated well, and hell...Muslims that were on the wrong side of the imperial army were also not treated well.
The very idea of sub continental Muslims not being "true" Muslims because of your allegation they were forced into Islam (which is more a fantasy of yours than historical fact) smacks of a great ignorance...
good to see you are not defending 'all' the muslim kings and just some of them.
As to converted muslims - I keep hearng this passionate claim made by many posters here about how peaceful and truthful a religion they practice - so I am just showing how most of them were 'p*iec*efully' they happened to become muslims
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
good to see you are not defending 'all' the muslim kings and just some of them.
A king is a king. Do you honestly believe Hindu kings were any better? Yes, yes...no invasions or anything like that....they had a really nice balance of power (history no doubt forgetting their atrocities on their climb to power) when the Muslims arrived...but it wasn't long since the balance was re-established. And so you had Muslim kings partaking in the serious fleecing of the common man, something the Hindu kings were doing all along.
[quote]
As to converted muslims - I keep hearng this passionate claim made by many posters here about how peaceful and truthful a religion they practice - so I am just showing how most of them were 'p*iec*efully' they happened to become muslims
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The presumption of a violent or forceful conversions is merely your own, and certainly does not in any way shape or form affect our emoting towards the faith, as much as you find that distasteful.
Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that if indeed there was some Muslim invader who kicked my ancestors in the teeth until he converted...all I have to say is good job Mr. Invader. Now, of course, I happen to know my family history, and it is very much steeped in the subcontinental Sufi tradition. We have a long time since moved away from Sufism, although we are most certainly at peace with our past. I suggest you find some peace yourself...
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
presumption? Any basic history book will tell you otherwise. The evil violence and subjugation practiced to grow islam in India is well documented and accepted. Only a few people such as you have some vague hallucination of millions of people converting on their own! 
In fact I don’t believe even you think that. You’re just passing time here saying things hoping to make some muslims feel a little better of the nasty past!
that’s between you, your toothless ancestor, his dentist and aurangazeb!
obviously not, if you are changing your family religion and tradition every other generation! It’s like the last prophet thing - absolutely the very last until the next one comes!
BTW I’ve heard that the sufi’s were also well versed in the Siddha techniques. Is that true?
Thanks
Om Shanthi Shanthi Shanthi:
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Perhaps because the majority of Indonesian's population historically were Bhuddists and animists and they did not spread their belief through violent means but peaceful existence and co existence they had no practice in defending an overpowering dogma.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Actually Indonesians were never Buddhists. They were of various pagan and traditional religions. Buddhism stopped in Malaysia.
But I have one question, which faith has not be spread by the sword and word both?
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
StirCrasey, could you name me one Hindu King, who did justice to the non-believers while ruling a kingdom?
Rulers like Sallaudin and other Sultans at Spain are mentioned as setting up good examples for ruling a kingom without much blood shed and even enforcing laws against discrimination of minorities.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
^^^ Almost all Hindu kings were tolerant to Buddhism, jainism, etc...:)
And I don't know what Sallauddin of Spain has got to do with India:)
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
No they weren't. You are forgetting the treatment of Dalits and other untouchables. Dalits were treated better than men and women of other religions, and we know how badly Dalits are treated in Hinduism.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
^^^ Almost all Hindu kings were tolerant to Buddhism, jainism, etc...:)
And I don't know what Sallauddin of Spain has got to do with India:)
First, your claim about Hindu Kings and Buddhism is a false one.Read history about Buddhism and their disappearance from these regions.
Secondly, Sallauddin has very little to do with Spain.
Finally the topic is on "How Islam spread" and Spain was very much a highlight of Islamic History.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
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First, your claim about Hindu Kings and Buddhism is a false one.Read history about Buddhism and their disappearance from these regions.
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Most historians agree that Buddhism in India was wiped out by muslim invasion and also gradual degeneration.
Buddhism in India reached its zenith during the reign of Guptas, who were Hindus.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
No they weren't. You are forgetting the treatment of Dalits and other untouchables. Dalits were treated better than men and women of other religions, and we know how badly Dalits are treated in Hinduism.
Proof?
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
" Let the one who is called Shiva by shaivites, as Brahma by Vedantis, as Buddha by Buddhists, as the Creator by Naiyayikas( those who believe in 'Nyaya" philosophy), as Arhan by Jains and as Fate by Mimamsakas( Mimamsa is again another philosophy), protect us."
So reads the inscriprtion on the famous Chennakeshava (Hindu) temple in Belur, built by Hoysalas(Hindus) about 800 years ago.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Most historians agree that Buddhism in India was wiped out by muslim invasion and also gradual degeneration.
Buddhism in India reached its zenith during the reign of Guptas, who were Hindus.
Then most historians of whom you speak of didnt know about the Hindu Raj over Hindustan slaughtering many many Buddhists through Brahmin influence.
But then you are one of those, who twist and turn history to display India and the Hindu Religion as peaceful and perfect.
It's not your fault, when you have enough sources on the Inet claiming this:
[quote]
Buddhism disappeared, not on account of persecution by Hindus, but because of the ascendancy of reformed Hinduism. However, the view that Buddhists were persecuted by Brahmins, who were keen to assert their caste supremacy, still has some adherents, and in recent years has been championed not only by some Dalit writers and their sympathizers but by at least a handful of scholars of pre-modern Indian history.
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Misguiding and misleading people with little knowledge and we all know how dangerous that can be.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Fine then. Why don't you provide some evidence to back your claims? (I have)
BTW. I don't need to portray Hindu religion as perfect. I (unlike u)don't feel guilty just because some of people of my faith(by birth) did something hundreds of years ago- sheer stupidity.
Secondly, I am an atheist.