Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Fine then. Why don't you provide some evidence to back your claims? (I have)
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The complete disappearance of the religion of the Buddha from the land of its birth is one of the greatest puzzles of history. Once holding sway throughout the length and breadth of the subcontinent, Buddhism today survives only in the Himalayan fringes along the Tibetan frontier and in small pockets in northern and western India among recent Ambedkarite Dalit converts.
Various theories have been put forward which seek to explain the tragic eclipse of Buddhism from India. According to one view, corruption in the Buddhist sangha or priesthood precipitated Buddhism's ultimate decline. While it is true that with time the Buddhist priests became increasingly lax in the observance of religious rules, corruption alone cannot explain the death of Buddhism. After all, Buddhism was replaced by an even more corrupt Brahminism. Another theory is that Buddhism disappeared from India in the wake of the Arab and Turkish invasions in which many Buddhists were said to have been killed. However, this theory, too, seems not to be convincing as a complete explanation of the extinction of Buddhism in India . After all, in places such as Bengal and Sind, which were ruled by Brahminical dynasties but had Buddhist majorities, Buddhists are said to have welcomed the Muslims as saviours who had freed them from the tyranny of 'upper' caste rule. This explains why most of the 'lower-caste' people in Eastern Bengal and Sind
embraced Islam. Few, if any, among the 'upper' castes of these regions did the same.
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Enough proof?
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BTW. I don't need to portray Hindu religion as perfect. I (unlike u)don't feel guilty just because some of people of my faith(by birth) did something hundreds of years ago- sheer stupidity.
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Don't worry I dont feel guilty, since killings have been on the agenda of almost every king/emperor. So It's pretty pathetic to blame only one group for spreading Religion through sword.
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Secondly, I am an atheist.
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Interesting....
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
^^ i have given you reliable sources. You haven't even mentioned your source.
And I don't listen to the theories of every Tom, Dick and Harry.
Read #38
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Go and google...should be enough proven.
The proof you talk about is the same articles facked by some Tom, Dick and.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Proof?
The History of South Asia. You should have taken such a class in High School atleast.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
^^ i have given you reliable sources. You haven't even mentioned your source. And I don't listen to the theories of every Tom, Dick and Harry. Read #38
ummm-
History will always remain a question mark, much like present. In this age of media and information, truth still fails to stand out. The important point is, not to justify people's action who are not living anymore, but to check the core belief. When you ask muslims, if forced conversion should be allowed, the overwhelmly majority will say 'NO'. and thats the key. There is a sense of good and bad in all of us. People sometimes even support bad guys, not because they were bad, but because they believe the allegation is false. Religious debates do not get anywhere because of this, because its never a debate between good and evil.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
StirCrasey, could you name me one Hindu King, who did justice to the non-believers while ruling a kingdom? Rulers like Sallaudin and other Sultans at Spain are mentioned as setting up good examples for ruling a kingom without much blood shed and even enforcing laws against discrimination of minorities.
what is non-believer? I assume you mean those who were not Hindus?
Sure - numerous actually, actually most. Whether it be the Mauryas or the Guptas of the North or the Cholas Cheras and Pandyas of the South have also ensured other religions are not just tolerated but actually helped and fostered.
Rajaraja Chola, the man behind the famous Big Temple of Tanjore, also funded the Bhuddhist monastries of Nagapatnam and some in Sri Lanka
The Pallavas built fantastic temples for Hindu dieties while at the same time providing major grants to Bhuddhits
Rajaraja in fact is said to have commented to his son Rajendra Chola that he has heard of a new religion (new to him I guess) coming from the west (of India ofcourse) and regretted he may not be alive to fully understand its principles - most historians think he was referring to Christianity. He asks his son that when he undertakes his digvijayam of the North, to look for anyone who knows about that!
That is how tolerant Hindu kings were.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
First, your claim about Hindu Kings and Buddhism is a false one.Read history about Buddhism and their disappearance from these regions.
Ali, I disagree because:
1) If you read the history of teh Shankara Matts (which is well documented by the way) a number Hindu seers traveled the length and breadth of the country and re-established pre-eminence of Hinduism by holding formal and public debates with senior monks of Bhuddhism and other branches
2) Bhuddhism and Jainism did not and have not disappeared from India - their proportion in population has come down because of re-emergence of Hinduism (see earlier point) as well as the cruelty of the muslim kings who converted non-muslims to islam by force, murder and other despicable atrocities
Again, these are very well documented facts that even most muslims don't refute
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
No they weren't. You are forgetting the treatment of Dalits and other untouchables. **Dalits were treated better than men and women of other religions, **and we know how badly Dalits are treated in Hinduism.
Pardon my french but this is foolish. Documented history shows Hindu kings sought diversity of religions and funded other religions. don't make silly comments such as this with no basis.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Really which one? Proof please. You do realize you are speaking of a religion that discriminated against just because of what social strata they were born in. Yet they funded and supported other religions....right. That is logical.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
[QUOTE]
When you ask muslims, if forced conversion should be allowed, the overwhelmly majority will say 'NO'. and thats the key.
[/QUOTE]
Is that relevant? I think we should explore history dispassionately. Does covering up things in history just because it hurts the sentiment of some silly people justified.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Really which one? Proof please. You do realize you are speaking of a religion that discriminated against just because of what social strata they were born in. Yet they funded and supported other religions....right. That is logical.
cut that generality crap. you asked about Hindu kings and I have posted a few. If you want a generalized debate on Hinduism varnas, that is elsewhere. here we have proved that islam spread by despicable and violent means but for which it stood no chance. if you have anything about that I will read.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Allow me to correct your misspeak: Fom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Among the five official religions of Indonesia, according to the state ideology of Pancasila According to Suharto, Buddhism and Hinduism were Indonesia’s classical religions. This is the reason why, Buddhism in Indonesia has a long history dated back in the ninth century where Buddhist temples on Java island were built, for instance, Borobudur. The Buddhist pilgrim *(Yijing (monk) - Wikipedia) visited Srivijaya in Sumatra on his voyage to India. Other Buddhist monks that visited Indonesia were Dharmapala, a professor of Nalanda, and the South Indian Buddhist Vajrabodhi. Many ancient Buddhist ruins and stupas are still left in Indonesia. Buddhism also flourished in Java and Bali.
Two important Buddhist Javanese texts are the Sang hyang Kamahaanikan and the Kamahayanan Mantranaya.
Nowadays, Buddhism is mainly followed by the Chinese and some indigenous groups of Indonesia, with 1% (Buddhism only) to 2.3% (including Taoism and Confucianism) of Indonesia’s population Buddhist.[1]](http://www.depag.go.id/index.php?menu=page&pageid=17)[2]](http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/nationprofiles/Indonesia/rbodies.html)
and again more information to correct your misspeak about buddism not in Indonesia
Buddhism is the second oldest religion in Indonesia, just after Hinduism. Before the arrival of these two religions, people believed that nature had supernormal power. Trees and stones were worshipped as sacred object, where beings with supernormal power reside.
Hinduism came to Indonesia at around the second century. The first two major kingdoms (Tarumanegara in Western Java and Kutai in Western Borneo) were based on Hinduism. Buddhism came to Indonesia a few hundred years after
]Hinduism. It reached its peak at the time of the Sriwijaya’s dynasty rule, which was once the largest Buddhist kingdom in South East Asia, from around the 7th century until the 14th century. During that time, many Buddhist colleges and monasteries were built, and famous Buddhist scholars, such as Dharmapala and Sakyakirti, were teaching there.
Another major Buddhist kingdom was the Mataram kingdom, which was ruled by the Sailendra clan during the eight and ninth century in Central Java. Many Buddhist temples were built and Buddhist texts were inscribed on the stones tablets (called prasasti) during this time.
to learn more about Buddistshttp://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhistworld/indo-txt.htm*
Re: UN Condemns the Dutch Film
HAHAHAA!!!! Just because people gave in to violent threats does not mean Islam was spread peacefully. The same thing happens today: Muslims first threaten to kill people and then claim Islam is spread peacefully when people give in to threats.
HSKhan, Islam is the right religion- no other religion is this complete. Women have complete freedom as long as they obey their husband or dad and one should submit him/her to Allah(swt) and pray 5 times a day, do zakat, do umrah etc. No other religion is complete. Sometimes we beat kids when don't' they accept the right thing- so even though violence might have been used in spreading Islam, South Asian muslims feel it was the right thing to do. Why non-muslim countries are not successful?
Re: UN Condemns the Dutch Film
HSKhan, Islam is the right religion- no other religion is this complete.** Women have complete freedom as long as they obey their husband **or dad and one should submit him/her to Allah(swt) and pray 5 times a day, do zakat, do umrah etc. No other religion is complete. Sometimes we beat kids when don't' they accept the right thing- so even though violence might have been used in spreading Islam, South Asian muslims feel it was the right thing to do. Why non-muslim countries are not successful?
Mr. LalaMosa, why should a woman obey her husband?
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
what is non-believer? I assume you mean those who were not Hindus?
Yes.
[quote]
Sure- numerous actually, actually most. Whether it be the Mauryas or the Guptas of the North or the Cholas Cheras and Pandyas of the South have also ensured other religions are not just tolerated but actually helped and fostered.
[/quote]
Right and the Jainas were not massacred and are not being badly treated at that time right?
[quote]
Rajaraja Chola, the man behind the famous Big Temple of Tanjore, also funded the Bhuddhist monastries of Nagapatnam and some in Sri Lanka
[/quote]
And thre was no blood shed when CHola Saheb conquered Sri Lanka. They left every monastry unharmed right?
[quote]
Rajaraja in fact is said to have commented to his son Rajendra Chola that he has heard of a new religion (new to him I guess) coming from the west (of India ofcourse) and regretted he may not be alive to fully understand its principles - most historians think he was referring to Christianity. He asks his son that when he undertakes his digvijayam of the North, to look for anyone who knows about that!
That is how tolerant Hindu kings were.
[/quote]
What tolerance? Knowing a relgion makes them tolerant? Phir to Akbhar saheb must be the most tolerant King in Indian history!!
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Ali, I disagree because:
1) If you read the history of teh Shankara Matts (which is well documented by the way) a number Hindu seers traveled the length and breadth of the country and re-established pre-eminence of Hinduism by holding formal and public debates with senior monks of Bhuddhism and other branches
2) Bhuddhism and Jainism did not and have not disappeared from India - their proportion in population has come down because of re-emergence of Hinduism (see earlier point) as well as the cruelty of the muslim kings who converted non-muslims to islam by force, murder and other despicable atrocities
Again, these are very well documented facts that even most muslims don't refute
Ad 1.)
That is exactly the problem with you guys. Your Kings believe to have done everything by peaceful manners and forget that a King is finally a King. Thus any monarchic system will allow you to mistreat your people, fight wars and order assassinations without questioning. As It was done in medievil, the Muslim rulers, the Ashokas, the Cholas, the pharaohs, King Herod etc.
It is our Community who has failed to reveal the truth regarding the Hindu Empires. Less has done by us about this topic.
Ad 2.)
So Buddhist converted to HInduism by their own without any sword or under pressure. Make me then understand why every second low cast Hindu is either converting to Islam or even re-converting to Buddhismus.
Secondly the brutality of conversions didn't not take place at Sallaudins time and his followers nor at Spain. Please read history or read my post above.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Actually you are correct Uber. I did get wrong.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
[QUOTE]
So Buddhist converted to HInduism by their own without any sword or under pressure. Make me then understand why every second low cast Hindu is either converting to Islam or even re-converting to Buddhismus.
[/QUOTE]
AFAIK, Buddhism was always the religion of the elite, not dalits.