How come Muslims Don't Date?

Amigo;

Your attitude befits the ignorant wahabi that you are.

You give opinions when you don't even understand the Islamic rules regarding marriages.

You have associated dating with the Western concept of going out with any girl without having any fear of responsibility, when in fact the Islamic system of mut'a is a blessing given to muslims from Allah (swt).

Your prophet (pbuh) allowed mut'a. Your sahabahs performed mut'a. Some of yr sahabahs were born out of a mut'a marriage.

Now you have two choices:

Either follow the holy apostle's (pbuh) verdict and accept mut'a as an Islamic method of meeting the opposite sex OR

Continue to pursue Umar bin Khattab's erroneous verdict to ban what Allah (swt) and his holy apostle made lawful for you.

It all depends on who you want to give more importance to - our holy prophet (pbuh) or Umar.

As the Master of believers, Imam Ali (as) said "If Umar had not banned mut'a, no muslim would have committed fornication except the wretched".

Why don't muslims date ? Alot of them do. Do they commit fornication ? Yes, quite a few. Pity, they wouldn't have to commit such sins if they understood Islam as Allah's messenger and his holy imams (pbut) had taught them.

Wa Salam.

if it is crap or not, learn to respect other sects. You dont know anything about it so just keep quiet..
Atleast act like a good muslim


Yarooo mein bara pareshan ek larki jawaaan
Hai woh barii shaitaan mujhay kar gayi hairaan
Kaisay karoun inkaar wo jo karaing Izhaar

REFRAIN FROM SUCH LANGUAGE!!!. I am sunni. I dont go bad mouthing shias. They are still muslims. And even if u think they are not does not make them non-muslims. Only Allah decides. Beofre u start Inulting shias remember that as a result they WILL insult sunnis. That means they will insult so many people because of the stupid comments you have made. We are not allowed to call anyones religion bad (or crap as u put it), yet shias are part of the same religion.

What do u not understand. Just a few hours ago another few ppl got killed in pakistan due to the mantality of people like you who bad-mouth other sects! This is not good!!!
I reques the MODS to cut out posts like these as they cause great discomfort to all watching this pathetic display by some people

[This message has been edited by Topee Wala (edited March 24, 2001).]

[quote]
**Originally posted by Topee Wala:

REFRAIN FROM SUCH LANGUAGE!!!. I am sunni. I dont go bad mouthing shias. They are still muslims. And even if u think they are not does not make them non-muslims. Only Allah decides. Beofre u start Inulting shias remember that as a result they WILL insult sunnis. That means they will insult so many people because of the stupid comments you have made. We are not allowed to call anyones religion bad (or crap as u put it), yet shias are part of the same religion.

What do u not understand. Just a few hours ago another few ppl got killed in pakistan due to the mantality of people like you who bad-mouth other sects! This is not good!!!!!!
I reques the MODS to cut out posts like these as they cause great discomfort to all watching this pathetic display by some people

[This message has been edited by Topee Wala (edited March 24, 2001).]
**
[/quote]

yaar topee wala its nice to see ppl like you..!!!!


Yarooo mein bara pareshan ek larki jawaaan
Hai woh barii shaitaan mujhay kar gayi hairaan
Kaisay karoun inkaar wo jo karaing Izhaar

[This message has been edited by sherrybaba (edited March 24, 2001).]

hey take your ridiculus fighting somewhere else! Come on guys stick to the topic or carry on your nonsense in a new thread!!!

Mods- this is the kind of thing you guys should be doing… afdter all your job is to moderate!

PS Hey why not make me mod!? I’ll do it! I’ll do it!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


..time to eat all your words, swallow your pride..open your eyes..

[This message has been edited by waqas72 (edited March 24, 2001).]

...i dont think the concept of dating was around at the time of the prophet...perhaps thats why there aren't specific references about this subject.

thank you everyone for your replies.

fyi- stop being pety.

[This message has been edited by Bharysh (edited March 25, 2001).]

there was no need for dating in the Prophet's time.. as most people knew of other people to being with if the had somehow not met.

oh.. dating is not haraam in Islam.. provided it is chaperoned.. it happens in Malaysia..

but i think thee must be intent to find a life partner.. not just hanging out..

the chaperone is chosen or accepted by parents of both.. so there is trust that the chaperone will not let the kids do what may not be considered appropriate..

how else are you to know if the person you are going to marry will be right for you..


Herem aik, Khuda aik, Nabi aik, Quran bhi aik
Kya Kuch berhi baat thi, hotey agher muselmaan bhi aik

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rotato.gif

[This message has been edited by Ms. Pakistani (edited March 25, 2001).]

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

this muta discussion has been discussed numerous times. Ask a shia whether he would like his sister doing muta and they dont have an answer. Several hadith have been referred to. I myself referred to a quranic ayat clearly prohibiting muta, but still you will not beleive. And yes it is shia-crap. Not saying that shias are inferior humans, but that this CRAP is beleived in by SHIAS only.

And you others should be a good muslim by commenting that Muta is forbidden and not by scolding me. You should shut his mouth not to spread such lies about the Prophet (PBUH) and Islam in general. And not to distort the truth. I can refer to numerous hadith and quranic ayaats too, but still they will not beleive.


ThE MuChaChO, man with the plan..

[This message has been edited by aMiGo (edited March 26, 2001).]

The islamic ruling is that a boy and a girl is not allowed to be alone by themselves as hadithes say that than their will be a third person, namely Shaitan.

But as they do it in Malaysia, it seems ok. Also seen from an Islamic point of view.

Peace

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


ThE MuChaChO, man with the plan..

I'm sorry to say this and I say this as a 'muslim', not affiliated with any group; but in Islam the concept of 'muta' has been distorted to think that Islam allows dating under these conditions or make and break marriages - like the amigo said total crap - innovations to allow people to take benefit from, beware this is what happened to judaism and christianity! The same goes for 'engagements' in Pakistan which go on for a year or two and the two parties involved think it's jaiz, well it's only jaiz after Nikah!

As far as dating is concerned, the facts are all there in the Quran and the Hadith and like the watcher pointed out it's plain and simply not allowed. If someone doesn't want to accept the truth then how can they see the truth? Open your minds guys/gals!

First of all dating is not allowed because it leads to Zinah (fornication) and zinah has many forms, the strongest being the obvious, and the mildest being the zinah of the eyes and the zinah of the mind! Any interaction with the opposite sex which may invoke emotion (and for that matter even this forum may be borderline!) and may lead to zinah, we should stay clear of as Allah has pointed out that it is for our own good!

Secondly, hadith says clearly that when a man and woman are alone in a room the third party present is the Shaytan, which I think is absolutely true!

Guys, I don't wana sound fanatic but some things need careful consideration, ie we do not make halaal things haraam, and we do not make haraam things halaal, it's a balance to be kept best by the scholars.

Amigo;

Come on boy, show us where mut'a is dis-allowed in the Qur'an and hadith. I am familiar with each and every feeble argument that you will resort to and the quranic ayats that you will state. But go ahead anyway.

Mut'a is not dating per say, nor is it fornication. The bottom line is this:-

If the holy apostle (pbuh) did not consider it fornication, prostitution, or whatever, why do you ?

And does not believing in mut'a mean that you are a better muslim ?

Your arguments as usual are weak and based on emotions.

Just as your sister has a right to choose who she would like to marry, so she has the right to be with someone in a mut'a relationship.

There are no verses in the quran that have abrograted the verse on mut'a nor will you find any of yr hadiths stating that the prophet (pbuh) abolished mut'a himself. Only Umar bin Khattab clearly states that HE ordered all to abandon this practise.

Don't try and get people excited by using sisters to stir up emotions. Like men, sisters too have sexual desires which require satisfaction. Islam recognizes this and has provided lawful ways of achieving this.

Wa Salam


My Imams are 12 (in number), and all of them masoom. Unlike your Imams, mine are not sinners.

[quote]
Originally posted by mushi:
**I'm sorry to say this and I say this as a 'muslim', not affiliated with any group; but in Islam the concept of 'muta' has been distorted to think that Islam allows dating under these conditions or make and break marriages - like the amigo said total crap - innovations to allow people to take benefit from, beware this is what happened to judaism and christianity! The same goes for 'engagements' in Pakistan which go on for a year or two and the two parties involved think it's jaiz, well it's only jaiz after Nikah!

As far as dating is concerned, the facts are all there in the Quran and the Hadith and like the watcher pointed out it's plain and simply not allowed. If someone doesn't want to accept the truth then how can they see the truth? Open your minds guys/gals!

First of all dating is not allowed because it leads to Zinah (fornication) and zinah has many forms, the strongest being the obvious, and the mildest being the zinah of the eyes and the zinah of the mind! Any interaction with the opposite sex which may invoke emotion (and for that matter even this forum may be borderline!) and may lead to zinah, we should stay clear of as Allah has pointed out that it is for our own good!

Secondly, hadith says clearly that when a man and woman are alone in a room the third party present is the Shaytan, which I think is absolutely true!

Guys, I don't wana sound fanatic but some things need careful consideration, ie we do not make halaal things haraam, and we do not make haraam things halaal, it's a balance to be kept best by the scholars.**
[/quote]

We are discussing mut'a, a lawful relationship between 2 people based on Islamic law. What has this got to do with zinah or prostitution ?

Effective tactics to divert attention but it will get you nowhere.

what is muta?

Salaam
The topic of discussion is whether or not dating is permissable, in case it slipped your mind.

You say that your imams are 12 and unlike 'yours' they are not sinners - what? On what basis do you say this statement which accuses all 'our' imams of being sinners. Best of all only Allah can be the judge of that so please remove that statement.

Umer Ibn Khattab made it illegal to have muta 'relationships', the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said (Sahih Al-Bukhari) that if there were a prophet after me it would have to be Umer.

So as a muslim it is you obligation to follow the prophet as our example and the salaf (the companions and the people after the companions) and if Umer (Radiallahu Anh) made it illegal for the muslims then so be it!

It is best to ask a known scholar on the circumstances in which Muta 'marriages' and not relationships are VALID.

Jazakallah

references you say ?

SAHIH MUSLIM:

Book 008, Number 3262:
Sabra al-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage and said: Behold, it is forbidden from this very day of yours to the Day of Resurrection, and he who has given something (as a dower) should not take it back.

Book 008, Number 3263:
'Ali b. AbiTalib reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited on the Day of Khaibar the contracting of temporary marriage with women and the eating of the flesh of domestic asses.

Book 008, Number 3264:
Malik narrated this hadith on the authority of the same chain of trans- witters that 'Ali b. Abil Talib said to a person: You are a person led astray; Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade us (to do Mut'a), as is stated In the hadith transmitted on the authority of Yahya b. Malik.

Book 008, Number 3267:
'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) said to Ibn 'Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar forbade forever the contracting of temporary marriage and the eating of the flesh of domestic asses.

Book 008, Number 3258:
Sabra b. Ma'bad reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) permitted his Companions to contract temporary marriage with women in the Year of Victory. So I and a friend of mine from Banu Sulaim went out, until we found a young woman of Banu Amir who was like a young she-camel having a long neck. We made proposal to her for contracting temporary marriage with us, and presented to her our cloaks (as dower). She began to look and found me more handsome than my friend, but found the cloak of my friend more beautiful than my cloak. She thought in her wind for a while, but then preferred me to my friend. So I remained with her for three (nights), and then Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) commanded us to part with them (such women).

SAHIH BUKHARI
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 50:
Narrated 'Ali:

I said to Ibn 'Abbas, "During the battle of Khaibar the Prophet forbade (Nikah) Al-Mut'a and the eating of donkey's meat."

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 52:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah and Salama bin Al-Akwa':

While we were in an army, Allah's Apostle came to us and said, "You have been allowed to do the Mut'a (marriage), so do it." Salama bin Al-Akwa' said: Allah's Apostle's said, "If a man and a woman agree (to marry temporarily), their marriage should last for three nights, and if they like to continue, they can do so; and if they want to separate, they can do so." I do not know whether that was only for us or for all the people in general. Abu Abdullah (Al-Bukhari) said: 'Ali made it clear that the Prophet said, "The Mut'a marriage has been cancelled (made unlawful)."

It was the Prophet who declared that it is forbidden. He made this declaration on his return from the expedition to Tabuk, at the head of a large army. The confusion arises from the fact that there are reports that one or two companions of the Prophet had such a limited marriage when they were with the army on the way to Tabuk. This might have been so, but the express prohibition was made on the return journey. Even if these reports were true, they signify nothing more than a new restriction forbidding something that had been practiced in the past. There are numerous examples of such things.

I could even have given you abu dawud and muwattah.

QURANIC REFERENCE
The Qur’an does not support this view. According to the very initial Surahs (chapters) of the Qur’an, like Surah Al-Mominun and Surah Al-Ma`arij the Qur’an specifically disallows all sexual relationships, besides that which are based on Nikah or that which were between a master and his slave girl1. The Qur’an says:

And those who guard their chastity, except with their wives and their slave girls – for they are not to be blamed. But those who trespass beyond this are the ones who are transgressors. (70: 29 - 31)

It must be remembered here that a Mutah relationship makes a woman neither a wife nor a slave girl of a person, whereas the Qur’an specifically restricts sexual relationships of a person with these two. It should be noticed that the particular word used by the Qur’an in the referred verse translated as "wives" is "azwaj" plural of "zaujah". In the classical Arabic language (and in urdu too), a woman with whom a person had entered into a contract of Mutah was called the "Mamtu`ah" of the person, she was not referred to as the "zaujah" (wife) of the person. The verse, therefore is a clear evidence to the fact that no other relationship besides the one based on Nikah was allowed by Islam.
(www.understanding-islam.com)

Some translations(interpretations) of great scolars:

070.029
YUSUFALI: And those who guard their chastity,
PICKTHAL: And those who preserve their chastity
SHAKIR: And those who guard their private parts,
KHALIFA: They keep their chastity.

070.030
YUSUFALI: Except with their wives*and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed,
PICKTHAL: Save with their *wives
and those whom their right hands possess, for thus they are not blameworthy;
SHAKIR: Except in the case of their wives or those whom their right hands possess-- for these surely are not to be blamed,
KHALIFA: (They have relations) only with their spouses, or what is legally theirs -

In all these 4 reknown translations the words wife/spouse is used, clearly implying that muta is forbidden(as these partners are not seen as wife/husband/spouse). "Right hand posessions" and "legally theirs" is interpreted as slaves by the scolars.

Allah himself has prohibited this Mutah sin!


I think this ends the discussion from my side. I could have posted numerous other hadithes and quranic interpretations, but your ignorant mind would still not have beleived.

You say sisters have desires and Islam has provided means to satisfy them. Of course, but through proper marriage ONLY. Not muta! Tell me, would you have let your sister do muta with a boy for three days, and then never to see him again ?? And then maybe move on to the next boy ?? You really think Islam promotes this crap ??

You will now probably refer to those hadithes where the Prophet(PBUH) permitted muta. You will refer from the same collections of hadithes, but somehow elegantly skip (ignore) those hadithes prohibiting mutah, and choosing only those (doubtful)sources legitimizing Nikah Al-mutah.

Or you will give me distorted interpretations of quran and say that this means that, and that means this. References of mine are quite non-ambigous and cannot be interpreted in many ways. They deal with the matter directly and without the room of misunderstanding.

I have now given you Quran, Sunnah, Hadith and common sense and the beleifs of great scolars.I could have given you even more, but your retard mind would still not beleive.

This discussion is OVER from my side. I will NOT reply to you again.


ThE MuChaChO, man with the plan..

[This message has been edited by aMiGo (edited March 27, 2001).]

I do agree with the ppl that no body should disgrace others and their beliefs. I will request amigo and other to please change their way of talking.

But what a1shah wrote is no dout unislamic in nature. Islam even forbids women coming in front of any Namehram without perda (muta is a far cry) and clearly orders man to lower thier gaze while meeting namehram women. So thier is no point of discussion that muta is allowed. It is totally unislamic And i am really hurt and ashamed to know that any muslims have such beliefs cause this way they are damaging islams image. aishah please read about islam carefully and thinkover ur beliefs again.

I am really hurt.

Why me;

I don't understand what you're so upset about. We are talking about mut'a, a contract marriage allowed by Allah (swt) and his apostle (pbuh).

The relationship between a man and a woman is sanctised by Allah (swt) through mut'a as it is through a permanent marriage. So what is the fuss about ? The two are not the same, mind you. But mut'a is not zinnah nor prostitution either.

We are not talking about dating per say where any girl and guy just goes out with each other. It seems that this is what you may be thinking about.

Amigo; your quranic ayat is irrelevant and your hadiths are questionable. I will prove this in a bit. Cut and Paste jobs have their merits but sometimes, you have to use your own logic to determine the truth.

Pasting hadiths, which it so happens was related mostly by Imam Ali (as), will not be effective in denying the legal option of mut'a.

Ta ta.

In the chapter titled "Women", after listing those women to whom marriage is forbidden, the Quran states as follows:

"Lawful for you is what is beyond all that, that you may seek, using your wealth, in wedlock and not in license. So those of them whom you enjoy, give them their appointed wages; it is no fault in you in mutually agreeing after fulfillment (of the wage). God is All-Knowing, All-Wise" (4:24).

All Shia scholars and many Sunni scholars hold that this verse - especially the words: "Such woman as you enjoy (Istamta'tum)" - refers to the permissibility of Mut'a.

This verse was revealed towards the beginning of the Prophet's stay in Medina.

So all of Amigo's hadiths stating mut'a was prohibited during the conquest of Khaiber is false since this explicit Quranic verse permitting mut'a is a Medinite verse. If you didn't already know, Khaiber occurred several years before the hijrat to Medina.

In order for you not to believe in mut'a, you need to come up with a verse that came after this verse was revealed and which abrogates this verse on mut'a.

Enough said. Mut'a was and is still permitted
by Shariah.

Also note that the context of the verse also indicates that it is referring to the temporary marriage.

In the previous verse, i.e. 4:23, the Quran enumerates the women who are forbidden to men. These are divided into seven kinds stemming from blood relationship and seven more stemming from other causes:

"Forbidden to you are your mothers and daughters...". The next verse adds a fifteenth category of women forbidden to men:

"And married women, save what your right hands own." It continues with the words quoted above: "Lawful for you is what is beyond all that."

In other words, any woman not belonging to one of the fifteen categories is permitted, whether by marriage or ownership.