From an islamic point of view, do u think it is it wrong to be best friends with someone of the opposite sex? i know that boy/girl friends are haram, b/c i read it myself in the quran, but where do you think the line should be drawn?
When you have read yourself in Quran then whatelse is there to know? The line is already drawn once for all. :)
They can be very very close without being more. In fact they can be closer friends than they are with the same sex.
dear jak, i meant romantically its forbidden, thanx for your reply both of you
If you read the Quran (not various Hadith and opinions of scholar, which the Quran/Allah does not require that we follow), you will find that the only thing that is prohibited is extramarital sex, close relationships are no problem. Just save the sex until marriage.
Zara
saalaam
BOy and girl should not be alone at all in a room or anywhere something could happen its in hadith!!! Bukhari
Jaawan
thank you all, i was just curious, no impure thoughts here!
Do not let appearances decieve you- always 714
Jab mard aur aurat tanha hotay hain to teesra saathi shaitan hota hai.
Meaning the third companion with a man and a woman is satan.
Meaning the third companion with a man and > a
woman is satan.
Oh please!Give me a BREAK!Thats just outrageous.I'm not religious,fine.But even I know that there aint no way in hell that Islam teaches us that.Thats pure exageration.
Dear 714,
Being friends with a girl is not haram nor is it something thats discouraged by Islam or by parents.Everthing is in our head.If our minds our clean,then there is no way that one can frown upon even the closest of friendly relations b/w a boy and a girl.
I walked beside the evening sea;
And dreamed a dream;that could not be;
The waves that plunged along the shore;
Said only-
"Dreamer,dream no more".
Hollywood I think you're right on. When the Quran says that men should not have girlfriends, it means that men should not have sex with women other than their wives. If people want to have sex, they should get married. All of these Hadiths which say bad things about women and say that men and women can't even touch each others hands were collected after the prophet had died, and as far as I'm concerned, were probably fabricated. It's hard for us to know now. So let's just stick to what's in the Quran, which is clear and complete, according to Allah.
Zara
Guys guys please dont make your own rule and disobey rules of allah please read Hadith on and read what it says about love before marriage and being friends with girls, hollywood, dont say islam says that this is right please provide some profs beofore you say that and one more thing if your parents tell you if its ok it DOESNT mean Islam says its ok please study Islam on this topic so you know both sides. HUM SA your are right 3rd thing is satan, and that is the only thing that makes what happens when girl and boy are alone!!
Jaawan
Till next time*K_I_S_S*
[This message has been edited by Jaawan (edited July 16, 1999).]
Absolutely,I agree with that statement Zara.
Dear Jawaan,
I have gone back and double checked what I was saying earlier on.The fact is bro,that whatever is written in the Quran is what we are to consider the law.As far as the Hadith are concerned,there is no way,to know whether they really were the sayings of the Holy Prophet(PBUH) or half or complete
fabrications.By the way,the Quran also says that a boy and a girl can get to know each other before getting married.Yet,almost half the population thinks that is not correct and consider it an act of sin to allow such contact prior to a wedding.
There is no doubt about one word in the Quran.We all believe in the Quran so we should stick by what it says and follow it truthfully.I cannot say the same about most of the Hadith that I read,simply because of the reliability factor.
I walked beside the evening sea;
And dreamed a dream;that could not be;
The waves that plunged along the shore;
Said only-
"Dreamer,dream no more".
Hollywood could you please tell me what part of quran did you read this so i ll make sure pleaes i ll really appreciate it.
Jaawan
Till next time*K_I_S_S*
No offense, but this is the funniest religious discussion i have ever heared. I can see that all of the prticipants are making their point either on logic or on instinct. No religious refernces have been given.
Being an age old student in religion, i have not seen any verse in the koran which relates to this:
* know that boy/girl friends are haram, b/c i read it myself in the quran*
or this:
When the Quran says that men should not have girlfriends
Well it appears like there is some verse, O believers!/O sons of adam! Thou shalt not have girl/boy friends. Where exactly does it state that? I mean is it a joke? Why do we have to relate to koran whatever we ourselves believe in?
it was even more funny to see a member giving an explanation of such a verse, which does not exist. Had it existed, zara atif's logic wouldve been false. I hereby ask the respected members to post the verse on which this whole discussion is based on, if there is any.
** Note that i am not about the verses regarding adultry, but am asking for the verse mentioned in the very first post of the thread which forbids friendship between two people of the oppositte sex.**
One important aspect of the discussion i would like to talk about it that some of the members completely reject the hadith. Such will leave them with little of islam. For dear members, although fabricated hadith does exist, it does not give a valid point to reject all of it.
Note that if you reject all hadith and stick only to koran, you will soon find out that although koran tells us to perform * Namaaz *, but does not tell us of a way to do so. Such has to be searched for in hadith and sunnat. Similarly, how will yu know how to fast? how much zakat to pay? how to perform hajj? was their anyone called Umar? or Ali? or Abu bakr? Or was there any Abu talib?
If you completely reject hadith, it will leave very little in islam. it will be impossible to follow koran.
I however will post no comment on the actual topic until i get to see the verse which says that people must not have girl/boy friends. After i see it, only then can i talk about it. I would certainly not follow the respected participants, to make a fool out of myself commenting on such verses i have never read.
Jewels,
You're right, it's not a good idea to post opinions about verses without quoting specifically. You're making me blush now. I think, at least in part, I had this verse in mind, which actually refers to women (blushing again), not men:
4:25
YUSUFALI: They should be chaste, not
lustful, nor taking paramours.
SHAKIR: they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours.
I sincerely do not think that it says anywhere that women/girls and men/boys should not spend time together. It does say they should not have sex outside of marriage. Sura 4, An Nisa, specifies what a man should do in reference to women under his influence, and I think the point of it is, "don't use your power over orphans, slave girls, women, poor, to have sex with them outside of marriage." But thanks for setting me straight about that specific verse which I seemed to be referring to.
About Hadith, I also believe that a lot of bad traditions in Islam are based on false Hadith. The Quran says that it is complete, and that you shouldn't follow anyone or anything except God and the Quran. 45:6 SHAKIR: "These are the communications of Allah which We recite to you with truth; then in what announcement would they believe after Allah and His communications?" There is even a Hadith that says that Muhammed told his followers not to write any of his words down except when he was revealing the Quran. So these compilers of Hadith are going against their own Hadith!
The questions that you asked about "how would we know how to perform hajj, or namaz Well, my answer to that is simple. A pilgrimage is a pilgrimage. Travel to God's house. Go there and pray. When you pray, you bow and prostrate yourself:
2:125, SHAKIR: "And when We made the House a pilgrimage for men and a (place of) security, and: Appoint for yourselves a place of
prayer on the standing-place of Ibrahim. And We enjoined Ibrahim and Ismail saying: Purify My House for those who visit (it)
and those who abide (in it) for devotion and those who bow down (and) those who prostrate themselves."
I don't believe that Islam was meant to be so rigid. Should everyone be clipping their nails in the same way? Should we all step out of bed with the same foot? Some take it to this point. If we were not so rigid, there would not be such bad feelings between sects, and perhaps not as many sects. I think that Allah meant what he said about the Quran being complete. Anything not specified is left up to us. Allah will then judge us whether we have done right or wrong things when we die.
Zara
Madam,
Your reply was appreciated.
The verse that you mentioned actually does not impose a moral code on women, but suggests the male who can not afford to marry a free women, to make sure the maidens they mary are chaste, and do not take paramours, i.e. hidden lovers which as stated earlier lead to adultery.
Shakir *
And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.*
he words used refer to a secret lover, and do not speak of adultry. So in order to prove your interpretation, that this secret lover-ship has been mentioned solely to talk of adultry, we must apply the narration that secret meeting leads to adultry. So hereby if you do not apply that hadith, you leave with a straight away NO to any secret friendship, which is commonly termed by us as "love affair".
Secodnly although you gave a proposed way of performing hajj, you did not mention any possible way for prayer, for the reckoning of zakat or for the limitations of fasting.
You also forgot the important fact that whenever a book is sent, A prophet is sent as an example , to show people how to act upon the law. Usually after the prophet, many other prophets are sent, who further illustrate how to act upon the law in the book. Had the book been enough, why was God stupid enough ( i take refuge of god from saying that) to send prophets for no reason at all?
Jewels,
I am no longer referring to the verse which I quoted about women not taking "paramours." I realized when I quoted it to you in my last post that it was not relevant, but I quoted it to show you the basis of my incorrect memory. I would like to refer to the entire sura about women, Sura 4, where Allah details the proper relations between men and women.
I know that for someone who is heavily involved in Hadith, etc., it is hard to conceive of Islam without their authority. Just as it is hard for someone who is used to venerating Muhammed to imagine not doing so. Since all messengers came to us with the same message, Allah has asked us not to distinguish among his messengers.
YUSUFALI 46:9 Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me
or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."
YUSUFALI 2:285 The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of
them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and
another of His messengers."
If all the messengers bring the same message, and we are not supposed to distinguish among them, then why do we follow the sunna of only Muhammed? Muhammed was sent to give us the book, which was supposed to answer all of the questions and confusion from that day forward. His duty was to recite it and to inspire people to follow it, not to add onto it:
YUSUFALI, 69:40-47: That this is verily the word of an honoured messenger; It is not the word of a poet: little it is ye believe! Nor is it the word of a soothsayer: little admonition it is ye receive. (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds. And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart: Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).
I do not believe that Muhammed wished for Hadiths to be compiled and followed. I'm sure he knew that there would be many false and irrelevant Hadiths created. There are even recorded Hadith that state they Muhammed prohibited the written recording of Hadith!
In answer to your questions on how to perform prayer, there are references to all five prayer times in the Quran, and to "bowing and prostrating." Nothing more specific is provided, nor is it needed. Concerning zakat, people must give from their hearts, what they can afford, and Allah will decide whether they have fulfilled their duties. The same for fasting. Christians and Jews also prayed, fasted, and gave to the poor. Zakat, hajj and prayer are mentioned over and over in the Quran. These were not new ideas at this time and did not need to be explained.
You mention that we need the Hadith and the prophet's sunna to tell us the specifics of how to perform particular duties. I would argue that no more specifics are needed. But you don't mention that Hadith and the prophet's sunna are also used to restrict the lives of men and women (especially women) in many, many ways. These restrictions are present in Hadith, but there is no mention of them in Quran. Therefore, you cannot argue that the Hadith are "explaining" or "detailing" the Quran in these cases. I do not hide the fact that the differences between Quran and Hadith in relation to women were what first made me suspect the authenticity and authority of Hadith. Then I read the Quran from cover to cover and noted that we were asked to follow the Quran alone.
Zara
714 adab....
hum tum ik kamra may band hain
aur chabi kho jayeee...
just kidding,bachpan nahi gayee abhi tak,mazak kar raha hoon.now serious
mere khyial sa larka aur larki can be best of friend,jab tak un dono ke niyat saf hai,and they will be within the teaching of islamic thought,agar dono ke nyiat khrab ho jayee to mamla garbar hai,aur gunah ye azim hai....
dil..dilseee
I Wonder that if a girl and boy could be a Friend then where the concept of Mehram And Na-Mehram has gone.
May be u ppl are talking about Modern Islam(Islam that could be modified by ur Will, the orders which u think easy to fullfill u follow and the orders which are hard to carry out, u start arguments and start modification as according to what u wanna do)
Sorry to say, Very very wrong concept!
Or if i am wrong then give me the Quranic proves in favor of A Man Woman Friendship.
And plez here we are not talking about Harum, Kaniz And BandiyaN!
Oh And about Hadith:
Respected participant i think u are forgetting what Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said in his last seremon:
"Today Islam is completed........i m leaving two things among u ppl,... One is Quran And the other is Sunnah..........."
Tell me if u dont know the meaning and concept of Sunnah!
714
listen bro. the concept of Mehram Males & Mehram Females and Non-Mehram Males & Non-Mehram Females clearly and directly shows that there is no way in Islam to have any type of relationships with opposite genders.
Decision is all up to u, whether u choose a right path or a doubtful!
Oh Allah(SWT) forgive me if i am wrong and show me the right path!
ConservativeGirl!
Samreen :)Ditto.