I have been thinking about discussing this topic for some time btu always felt that people will get mad, take things personally and a mud slinging contest will begin.
Can someone tell me how much truth is in the
popular jokes and images of homosexuality in Pakistan, especially among Pathans.
This inquiry is in no way meant as a personal attack or to upset anyone, I know its a sensitive topic and I would hope that we can discuss this in a civilized manner.
Laughing Is Prohibited
Once, some people were traveling from Karachi to Peshawar in a train. One gentleman who him self was not a pathan asked pathan a question:
Khan sahib yeh batain ke aourat kis ko kahtain hain?
Khan Sahib ne farmaya "Khocha aurat os 78 rpm record ke manand hay jab ek tarf sun sun ke thak jao to us ko palta do".
Zarif
well thanks for the new idea Zarif
i will try to apply it on my gfs where ever applicable
Unlike West, homosexuality in Pakistan is not a matter of preference. Its more because of frustration. Its the absence of fair sex in a man's daily life which forces him to find other means to satisfy his sexual desires (in this case, another man). Its not unusual. Men often go for the next option, when there is no woman available. This is the reason why homosexuality is a common practice in prisons and among sailors.
[This message has been edited by Tariq Khan.]
Tariq khan jee
antoher man to door ki baat there is another interesting fact "khan kho da khre khwand ta wai"
Excellent thought, Azad, whatever that means. Would you mind translating that. I dont know Pustho (sorry for that)
Correct me if I am wrong, but I was told by
someone that partiallyits due to the fact that in some areas the grooms have to come up
with a large dowry and until they do that,
they kinda just get into sodomy.
any comments
Dear Farouque,
Who told you that it is an offense for a man and wife to be walking side by side in Pakistan??? Sounds to me like one of the many exaggerated rumors that the western world likes to propagate against what they like to call the third world. I don't deny that this happens in the so called 'backward areas' (although I hate to use the term) of the country, but then people from that level of society anywhere have what to an outsider might appear as peculiar behaviour Why is it that a bikini clad, half naked woman is looked upon as being 'kool and with it' but a chador wearing woman is branded as a fundamentalist??
To accuse a whole society just for the follies of a few is not justified. One hears so much negativity about conditions in Saudi Arabia, but having lived in that country myself, I can separate truth from farce. I have come across many descent people during my stay there, and this is one of the many reasons beside money that people like to go there. If lack of female contact is driving Pakistanis to homosexuality as some people suggest, why is it so prevalent in the free and and more tolerant societies?? Being able to recognize and overcome one's faults is a good thing, but to be brainwashed by outside propaganda is not warranted.. it just makes one despise oneself.. and create unnecessary complexes.
So long ....
Antidote
Salam Antidote,
I am impressed :)
Aslam U Alaikum
No matter what excuse we give to satisfy ourself or to the person who is asking the question but the truth remain the same, this practice exist in Pakistan. In all parts of Pakistan, I might add. Pathans have their name attach to this practice because they practice it openly. My friends who were from Peshawar used to tell the jokes about this practice in Bannu area. The landlord will give a Toyota Truck to his boy and this boy will be advertised in whole area. The other reason is that Pathans travell to lower parts of the country and in most of the area they are treated as minority. As a minority their deeds are more advertised than other local.
In punjab areas the Imams of mosques have their name attached to this practice.
This is the answer to Mr. Fraudia's question about the truth of the matter.
As this discussion developed I saw that this conversion going toword the reason WHY? As many other situations we can not give a single answer to this question also. I have to disagree with Tariq on this. We have seen cases where the guys are married but carrying on with this practice and whoever is going for a man he also has an option of going to redlight area. This all comes down to the thinking and preference of the person involved. If giving examples will justify my point of view I will be glad to do so.
NO insult intended for anybody.
Allah Hafiz
Mohsan
Salams
Tariq khan :)I would love to translate that ("khan kho da khre khwand ta wai"). It represent a whole culture of homo and animal sex, with a long history and community to practice, but as the discussion has moved from the point. So its better to leave it for a while.
Where is my original post to which Antitode is replying ? It seems to have disappeared !
Antitode:
The fact of the matter is that Pakistani society tolerates men holding hands and having a cuddle in public yet does not tolerate a heterosexual couple from doing likewise. I find this an unhealthy attitude.
You mention your personal experience of Saudi Arabia. A country where minorities have no rights. If I lived in Saudi Arabia for fifty years I still do not have the right to own my own home or marry a Saudi. In Kuwait Pakistanis are not allowed to own cars above a certain specified capacity. I was speaking to a Pakistani who left Kuwait early this year, he has lived in Kuwait for seventeen years. He had to pay a Kuwaiti to ‘own’ his van because the engine capacity of the van meant he couldn’t purchase it himself. Don’t try to gloss over reality. I acknowledge there may be exceptions but Saudi society as a whole is evil.
Farouq Taj.
"MR . " farooq
have n't you got any web page on this?
did they inject you there?
Mr. Farooq,
you are right but it is their law and you should respect that, right.
Not only in Saudia, the green passport is a trade mark of wrong doings internationally.and we deserve it too, so why this complaining.They do not let you own property there because when you apply for visa,you say I want to work there,they let you work as much you want and they pay you good too,so why you want to settled there. May be because you have made you home nasty . May be that is the reason they do not want you there and the result is very obvious,Saudia is nice ,clean,and peaceful the crime rate is very very low as compare to Pakistan it it nominal, because they follow ISLAMIC punishments.
They have very strict laws against drug traffiking, but still Pakistanis bring drugs and as a result they get beheaded in public after every Friday prayer.that is why they do not trust you to come and live with them and settltd there.Before you blame somebody think first what made him to do that.Why they don't let us live with them , do we deserve it?Think Think Think and then think again with your intellient mind.
more on it's way...
YOUR DEAR FRIEND SULTAN.
oops one more thing
i do not see anything wrong holding hands , if a man holds other man's man hand it is a sign of good friendship and warmness, and when two friends do not hold their hands I think it is because they are pretending to be friends they do not have any good friendship between them and I find it very unhealthy attitude or a hyprocracy.
I think Antidote is talking about THE BEAUTY OF AL MUMLIKAT-E-SAUDIA-UL-ARABIA AND NOT THE KUWAIT. THEY BOTH ARE IN MIDDLE EAST BUT TWO DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, HINT-
SAUDIA IS THE ONE WHICH HAS MECCA AND MEDINA AND THE KUWAIT IS THE ONE WHO GOT ATTACKED BY IRAQ., hey just trying to set the geographical facts straight no hard feelings ;)
[This message has been edited by Sultan.]
Homo Sexuality and Lesbianism are unnatural acts. People involved in such activities are pervert and sick. They need a psychologist or surgeon to correct their brain.
This inhuman act is strongly condemned in Quraan. People of Prophet Lot were completely wiped out and cities, Sodom and Gummorah were distroyed by Allah. Aids and related diseases are the present form of punishments from Allah.
People of backward areas are needed to be educated.
My first posting on the subject was just a joke. This sickness is every where in Pakistan. Pathans are notorious in that act because of 'badh achha badnam burra".
Zarif
[This message has been edited by Zarif.]
[This message has been edited by Zarif.]
Assalam alaikum
There are many natural instincts which everybody needs to satisfy. One of these instincts is the sexual instinct. Islam teaches us to correctly satisfy all our instincts and Islam teaches us that to satisfy the sexual instinct a man must got to a woman and a woman must go to a man who they are married to. In a society where people do not know how to satisfy their instincts they turn to other sources i.e. where the sexual instinct is concerned Men would turn to other Men, animals or objects i.e. anything that might satisfy their sexual instinct.
Also when the Fear of Allah leaves anyones heart and pride takes over they do not care how the Creator has commanded them to act and instead turn to whispers of Shaytan to satisfy their instincts.
To act like a homosexual is a great sin. In an Islamic state a homosexual would be despatched to hell by stoning him/her to death. Although I personally like the idea of Hadhrat 'Umar, (R.A.) where you would push the faggots off a high building and with preferably spikes at the bottom to break their fall. Isn't that nice way to go?, another faggot despatched to hell!
The fact that this crime isn't punished in such a way proves the point that Pakistan is not a Muslim country, it is run by a Kufr system, which has no ideology and to please the majority Muslims calls itself an 'Islamic Republic'.
Also to say that the saudi govt is Islamic is a joke. The Saudis do not follow Shariah Law they follow Saudi Law. The only thing that is Islamic about Saudi Law is the Punishment system. When you go to Saudi you can see that many of the poor people have no hands, this would not happen in an Islamic state. The state would look after anyone who needs money so they wouldn't need to steal to feed themselves and their families. Also an Islamic state would be a haven for Muslims, but in Saudi all immigrant Muslims are treated worser than dirt.
There is a desperate need for a new Islamic state so that justice can be achieved.
kh.
Sultan:
Just because Pakistanis commit crimes does not make the entire Pakistani community guilty. Justice is when a man is innocent until proven guilty. To condemn a man for his race is bigotry pure and simple. As Martin Luther King once said “a man should be judged by the content of his character and not by the colour of his skin”. If I lived in Saudi Arabia for twenty years and saved up some money I have a right to own my own home. It is simple justice, it’s not my fault if other Pakistanis happen to commit crimes. Only a bigot labels and condemns an entire community. Incidentally I have no wish to live in a barbaric country such as Saudi Arabia. I’m merely pointing out the injustice of that country.
You find nothing wrong in men holding hands, but my point is why is it not acceptable for a healthy heterosexual couple to hold hands in Pakistan ?
Kuwait is very similiar to Saudia Arabia, I used it as an example as I’ve spoken at length to a resident of Kuwait, a resident of roughly seventeen years. Similiar laws exist in both countries and both have similiar cultural attitudes.
Mudasser:
What a vicious, violent and evil attitude you portray. How can you reconcile your faith with such a harsh attitude ? Islam forbids homosexual relationships but nowhere do I see such an aggressive attitude commanded by Allah. It seems to be rooted in fear of homosexuality rather than a desire to follow Allah. We all know Umar was a very harsh ruler with a cold heart. Recall he forbid women from attending the mosque to name one restriction that even the prophet did not enforce. You could always rely in Umar to take the toughest route in any decision. Umar may well have been a good Ameer for the Muslims at that point in time. I hardly think his views are immortal and necessarily appropriate to our times when our lives are now so different.
To date we simply don’t know whether homosexuality is genetic or the result of ones social environment. Until we do let’s not rant and rave and foam at the mouth with such bigoted homophobic views. Please open your mind, if only a little so some light can get in.
Farouq Taj.
[This message has been edited by farouq_taj.]
Yaar Fraudiyay!
I simply can't comprehend that why people make homosexuality an issue or a topic to discuss in/for any society.
As I said earlier sometime before, This has been there for centuries. Among romans, the origin of "ghazals" was to praise beautiful boys in persia and Kamal ataturk was a "Bi", Oscar wilde, Elton John and many more in every society.....so it has been part of life inone form or another from stone age ..... somehow.......and 'll remain........no matter how civilized or not is the society, we've got to accept it.
waisay pathan kaa woh Famous joke toa sunaa hee hogaa kay, when a pathan first time sees his wife, he says "khochaa tum itnaa khoobsurat hai toa tumhaaraa bhaai kitnaa khoobsurat hoga".....wink
Farooq:- howz your enterprizing website is going.
Btw, even in India a foreigner can't buy a piece of land which is the largest "Democracy" in the world, so how Barbaric this democracy is or any other, for that matter??
These democracies or civilized nations which you are proud of, have a history, if wanna know about their barbaric acts n brutalities then ask any Indian living in S'tern canada or N-USA or an aborigines of Australia or even I can give u a little boost 'cause for books, u don't have time, isn't it.
Every priest has a past, bud.
see ya,
Kaleem
fraudia,
yeh sawal bara gehra hai?
jub society mein itni frustration pehla hee lee hai to bhugto!
be it the hostel of any main boyz or gals college in lahore you'll find them there.
and whats more its more rampant among young girls then boys and by this i mean that girls are more frustrated because they have no outlets whatsoever!
boys ...well they do have somewhat ;)
MahaRaja
Dear Farooq
Are you trying to say that Islam tolerates homosexuality even after what you read in the Qur'aan about what happened to the people of Loot.
You're calling me 'Homophobic'? The west invents words all the time to tell people how to think about a certain topic etc. When it comes to homosexuality they use the word 'Homophobic' which is used in a negative sense, the effect of this is that people don't want to be 'homophobic'.
I also hate paedophiles so does that make me 'paedophobic'? Can you explain what turns a person into a paedophile because the same people that say that Homosexuals are normal also say that the mental makeup of a paedophile is the same as a homosexual.
You're trying to find the answer using the wrong sources. The fact is that everybody has instincts which have to be satisfied i.e. hunger, sexual, spiritual etc, and Islam teaches us how to correctly satisfy these instincts which is why in order to satisfy our hunger instinct we are told to eat Halaal food not anything we want, ( except in certain situations ). Spiritual Instinct - We only worship Allah (S.W.T.).
kh.