What is the history of ahl-e-hadees, devbandis and baralvis in Pakistan? Can someone explain in detail?
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
Allah wikipedia ko jannat naseeb karey...
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The followers of the Ahl al-Hadith movement claim their beliefs and practices to be the same as those of early Muslims and, in particular, the Rashidun (rightly guided caliphs). The movement rose to prominence in the 9th century AD during the Abbasid era to counter the beliefs of Mutazilities. They again drew attention in the post-Mongol era, when Ibn Taymiyyah (1263–1328) started a reformist movement to purge the Islamic community of deviant beliefs.
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Its six founders were Muhammad Qasim Nanotvi, Muhammad Yaqub Nanautawi, Shah Rafi al-Din, Sayyid Muhammad Abid, Zulfiqar Ali, Fadhl al-Rahman 'Usmani and Rashid Ahmad Gangohi. They played a key role in establishing similar institutions in other parts of the Indian subcontinent. Meanwhile Tablighi Jamaat, founded in 1926 by Muhammad Ilyas al-Kandhlawi, promoted the ideas of the Deobandi school worldwide.
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Barelvi (Hindi: बरेलवी, Urdu: بریلوی, /bəreːlviː/) is a term used for the movement of Sufi , Sunni Islam originating in the Indian subcontinent. The Movement is known as Ahle Sunnat movement to its followers.The movement traces its history to mid nineteen century when in 1857 Allama Fazl-e-Haq Khairabadi (1797–1861) issued fatwa against Wahabism in 1857. This movement against Wahabi Ideology continued and was shaped by the writings of Ahmed Raza Khan Barelvi (1856–1921). The movement has taken a stand against all hardliner ideologies running in the name of Islam. It defended against contemporary traditionalist Islamic beliefs and practices and from the criticisms of movements like the Deobandi, Wahabi and Ahl al-Hadith. This included a defence of many traditional practices and rites associated with popular Sufism.
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Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
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The followers of the Ahl al-Hadith movement claim their beliefs and practices to be the same as those of early Muslims and, in particular, the Rashidun (rightly guided caliphs).
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so in nutshell, Ahl al-Hadith do taqleed :D
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
Allah janta hai .. kon kis ki taqleed kar raha hia.. mein tu …yeh sun raha hoon.. coz begum aaj kal out of country hai
enjoy:
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
Is Barelvi sect relater to Bareilly in UP. There is a place called "Chunna miyan ka mandir" in Bareilly
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
Aren't ahle-hadees the true wahabis of subcontinent? Generally, deobandis are referred to as such but deobandis still differ in the sense that they claim to be hanafiya , instead of hamblis though abdul wahab claimed to follow no imams whatsoever.
Just remember this
Taliban = deobandi
Al qaeda = wahabbi / ahle hadees
:p
- runs away patli gali say *
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
^ Al-Qaeda ideology based on the works of syed quttab the founding member of Muslim brotherhood, so it's like anthesia for wahabism.
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
Ahl-al-hadith is the name taken by the wahabis - so called because the movement was founded by Abdul Wahab from the Najad. They are hanbalis in the majority of their rulings and practices - however the aqeedah they profess to is called Athari also there is Wasitiyyah (Ibn Taymiyyah), generally are anti-tassawuf and do not believe that they engage in taqlid.
Deobandis are so called because the founders are from Deoband in India - Deobandis are Sufi, Hanafi, Maturidis - The harqat of tableeqi jamaat originates from Deobandis. Fiqh book taught is Mukhtasar Al-Quduri.
Barelvis are so called because the founder Ahmad Raza Khan is from Bareilly in India. Barelvis are Sufi, Hanafi, Maturidis. Fiqh book taught is Nur-ul-huda.
At some point the hanafis of the subcontinent were one body and then split to the two schools deobandi and barelvi and the differences are slight but the animosity between them is unfortunately huge.
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
^ Al-Qaeda ideology based on the works of syed quttab the founding member of Muslim brotherhood, so it's like anthesia for wahabism.
Sayyed Qutb was not a founding member of the Muslim brotherhood - he joined it more than 20 years after it had been founded.
Al Qaeda's ideology isn't based on that of the muslim brotherhood - they split off because they disagreed with the brotherhood's belief in working within the existing system rather than using force.
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
It makes sense, since Zwahiri was muslim brotherhood before he decided to take the plunge and join alqaeda, where the "action" is if it can be termed that.
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Ahl-al-hadith is the name taken by the wahabis - so called because the movement was founded by Abdul Wahab from the Najad. They are hanbalis in the majority of their rulings and practices - however the aqeedah they profess to is called Athari also there is Wasitiyyah (Ibn Taymiyyah), generally are anti-tassawuf and do not believe that they engage in taqlid
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Aren't wahabbis against innovation, as I always heard bid'dah bid'dah from them be it on quran khwani or naat.
Also, how can deobandis be sufis when they are totally against that sort of stuff like intercession?
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
It makes sense, since Zwahiri was muslim brotherhood before he decided to take the plunge and join alqaeda, where the "action" is if it can be termed that.
Aren't wahabbis against innovation, as I always heard bid'dah bid'dah from them be it on quran khwani or naat.
Also, how can deobandis be sufis when they are totally against that sort of stuff like intercession?
Peace Doppleganger
Yes, wahabis are against innovation ... just like all Muslims are supposed to be against innovation ... It is how you classify innovation that makes the big difference. Firstly whether something can be taken from the Sunnah in essence and changed in form and secondly whether there are good and bad forms of it.
Why would you imply a Sufi is a person who is about intercession? And secondly what made you think that Deobandis are against intercession?
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
My God - all of above was Greek and Latin - need to read carefully.
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
Peace Doppleganger
Yes, wahabis are against innovation ... just like all Muslims are supposed to be against innovation ... It is how you classify innovation that makes the big difference. Firstly whether something can be taken from the Sunnah in essence and changed in form and secondly whether there are good and bad forms of it.
Why would you imply a Sufi is a person who is about intercession? And secondly what made you think that Deobandis are against intercession?
I guess it must be more toward dead people who were known to be good in life. I have heard them say really bad stuff about them, like they are in hell for their sins so why even mention their name to god?
As for innovation, what about the islamic concept of ijtehad? If I am not wrong, didn't Abu Hanifa (ra) also said in the prologue of his book that his rulings are applicable to this era ?
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
Sayyed Qutb was not a founding member of the Muslim brotherhood - he joined it more than 20 years after it had been founded.
Al Qaeda's ideology isn't based on that of the muslim brotherhood - they split off because they disagreed with the brotherhood's belief in working within the existing system rather than using force.
scholars agree if sayeed qutb writings wasn't there, probably their should not be any al-qaeda at all. i am not saying they follow the muslim brotherhood type of logic but the base is same, al-qaeda beliefs are nurturer by afghan jihad local customs & the head cutting/suicide attacks came from arab nations, it's not part of our culture (south asia).
definitely he wasn't the founding member but his writings were the main driving force behind the muslim brotherhood.
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
For the powerpoint generation, I guess the summary is
"Taliban = deobandi
Al qaeda = wahabbi / ahle hadees"
And the Barelvi /Bareily = Sufi
(In the old days, almost every day in Vic=vidh Bharathi - there was a farmaish for a song Rail Bareili sey
what is taqleed?
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
For the powerpoint generation, I guess the summary is "Taliban = deobandi Al qaeda = wahabbi / ahle hadees" And the Barelvi /Bareily = Sufi
(In the old days, almost every day in Vic=vidh Bharathi - there was a farmaish for a song Rail Bareili sey
what is taqleed?
following the decisions of a religious authority without necessarily examining the scriptural basis or reasoning of that decision - the only reason for the decline of Muslim Ummah.
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
what i find interesting is.......... people putting each n every person following a specifc 'sect'/fiqh/group as completely identical and following what the 'preception' of that group's practices is...
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
Some confussion here...
My friend Firenze assumes that Seyud Qutb was the ideological father of the likes of Al-Qadea... in part he is correct but the actuall history goes much further.
While in recent history one assumes that Deobandis and Ahle Hadees are Arab in origin and that the teachings come down from Al Wahab of Najd it is only half the story.
The whole story of Wahabism goes back to the Middle ages and can be traced from one mans line of thought. Ibn Taymiya.
Ibn Taymiya was a shrewd scholar who changed the way Islamic ideology treated other non-muslim peoples and converts/reverts. Ibn Taymiya introduced the one most dangerous element of Islamic thinking that of aggresive Jihad and it was mainly a political motive for this.
The Arab kings of the region had recently lost thier power to succesive Mongol anf Turkic invaders from further East. These invaders quickly became new converts to Islam and helped spread Islam further than the Arabs had innitially done. However the Arabs resented thier new non-Arab masters. Many powerfull Arab lords would happily fight to topple the new status quo but for one problem... the invaders had become Muslims and it was not allowed for Muslim to kill other Muslims.
Ibn Taymiya as a jurist came to the conclussion that the new Muslim overlords were somehow not quite "pure" muslims. That they had usurped the Islamic mantle and the Arabs needed to throw out these new-commers. His arguements were partly helped by the way the new converts had not quite adopted the same customs or had continued with earlier traditions whilst incorporating them to the new Islamic faith...
Ibn Taymiya gave Arab rulers carte blanche to attack thier fellow muslims on the basis that they were superior and better than the new converts. The fact that many of the converts kept traditions that did not fit with the arab version of Islam led to much terrible bloodshed. Al Qaedas modern ideology as defenders of the "pure" faith from corrupt changes, personally I would question what gives the likes of Ibn Taymiya to make the decision as to who was more pure than whom.
However the fact is that Ibn Taymiya is the father of Wahabism as we know it which is the hardcore element of Muslims who want to re-establish the old order in the Islamic faith.
My own Ancestors were both victims and agressors of the Ibn Taymiya teachings for we were the sort of people that Ibn Taymiya had issues with. Also sufi saints and muslims who tried to create bridges between people and cultures became victims of these draconian policies by Arabs who basically became the moral police of the day.
I will post some more on this later... but a quick internet search will pretty much confirm what I just said of Ibn Taymiya.
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
following the decisions of a religious authority without necessarily examining the scriptural basis or reasoning of that decision - the only reason for the decline of Muslim Ummah.
Thank you Firenze!
Re: History of devbandis and barweli and ahle hadees in Pakistan
There used to be strict boundaries between sects. But now Allah walays (the sufis, dervishs, saints) have infiltrated everywhere. Now you may find many wahabis who are sufis at heart, and many sufis who title themselves as wahabi/deobandi, but their heart is a heart of a saint. By sufi I mean a person who loves and serves God.
These terms are just empty terms now ...