Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
Its ISI everywhere , in india and pakistan
Why do you think RAW cannot be behind destabilising Pakistan with all these bombings?
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
But to outright deny RAW cannot be behind the destabilization of Pakistan, is a bit um 'i'm too proud to see the truth' and naive in my opinion.
Arguing "can be behind" is different from "it is behind". Possibilities are always there, but just because ISI did something does not convert the RAW possibility into a certainty.
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
and you know ISI did something, because…? Or are you well-connected?
A little food for thought and discussions…
And i quote from my source:
- The Cabinet Secretariat Research and Analysis Wing [RAW], India’s most powerful intelligence agency, is India’s external intelligence agency. RAW has become an effective instrument of India’s national power, and has assumed a significant role in formulating India’s domestic and foreign policies. RAW has engaged in disinformation campaigns, espionage and sabotage against Pakistan and other neighboring countries. RAW has enjoyed the backing of successive Indian governments in these efforts. Working directly under the Prime Minister, the structure, rank, pay and perks of the Research & Analysis Wing are kept secret from Parliament.
In 1968 India established this special branch of its intelligence service specifically targeted on Pakistan. The formation of RAW was based on the belief that Pakistan was supplying weapons to Sikh terrorists, and providing shelter and training to the guerrillas in Pakistan. Pakistan has accused the Research and Analysis Wing of sponsoring sabotage in Punjab, where RAW is alleged to have supported the Seraiki movement, providing financial support to promote its activities in Pakistan and organizing an International Seraiki Conference in Delhi in November-December 1993. RAW has an extensive network of agents and anti-government elements within Pakistan, including dissident elements from various sectarian and ethnic groups of Sindh and Punjab. Published reports allege that as many as 35,000 RAW agents have entered Pakistan between 1983-93, with 12,000 are working in Sindh, 10000 in Punjab 8000 in North West Frontier Province and 5000 in Balochistan. As many as 40 terrorist training camps at Rajasthan, East Punjab, Held Kashmir, Uttar Pradesh and other parts of India are run by the RAW’s Special Service Bureau (SSB).
Throughout the Afghan War RAW was responsible for the planning and execution of terrorist activities in Pakistan to deter Pakistan from support of Afghan liberation movement against India’s ally, the Soviet Union. The assistance provided to RAW by the KGB enabled RAW to arrange terrorist attacks in Pakistani cities throughout the Afghan War. The defeat of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan did not end the role of RAW in Pakistan, with reports that suggest that India has established a training camp in the town of Qadian, in East Punjab, where non-Muslim Pakistanis are trained for terrorist activities. Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has blamed India for funding the current upsurge of terrorism in Pakistan, and senior ministers have blamed the Research and Analysis Wing for the sectarian violence between Shias and Sunnis which has resulted in thousands of deaths every year.
RAW has responded to Pakistani arms and training for Muslim militants in the disputed region of Kashmir state. RAW allegedly executed a hijacking of an Indian Airliner to Lahore in 1971 which was attributed to the Kashmiris, to give a terrorist dimension to the Kashmiri national movement. However soon the extent of RAW’s involvement was made public.
RAW has a long history of activity in Bangladesh, supporting both secular forces and the area’s Hindu minority. The involvement of RAW in East Pakistan is said to date from the 1960s, when RAW promoted dissatisfaction against Pakistan in East Pakistan, including funding Mujibur Rahmanh’s general election in 1970 and providing training and arming the Mukti Bahini.
During the course of its investigation the Jain Commission received testimony on the official Indian support to the various Sri Lankan Tamil armed groups in Tamil Nadu. From 1981, RAW and the Intelligence Bureau established a network of as many as 30 training bases for these groups in India. Centers were also established at the high-security military installation of Chakrata, near Dehra Dun, and in the Ramakrishna Puram area of New Delhi. This clandestine support to the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), some of whom were on the payroll of RAW, was later suspended. Starting in late 1986 the Research and Analysis Wing focused surveillance on the LTTE which was expanding ties with Tamil Nadu separatist groups. Rajiv Gandhi sought to establish good relations with the LTTE, even after the Indian Peace Keeping Force [IPKF] experience in Sri Lanka. But the Indian intelligence community failed to accurately assess the character of the LTTE and its orientation India and its political leaders. The LTTE assassination of Rajiv Gandhi was apparently motivated by fears of a possible re-induction of the Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) in Sri Lanka and a crackdown on the LTTE network in Tamil Nadu.
*
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
I notice you have conveniently excluded an important paragraph in the above source you have quoted; Why would you quote paras 1 thru 8 but leaving just para 7, which reads as follows (from your own link):
The Government of Pakistan frequently assigns responsibility for terrorist activity to the Indian Government, even when no evidence can be verified. **It is evidently in the interest of the Pakistani government to blame terrorist actions on external rather than internal sources, **just as it would be in the interest of Indian services to obscure their hand in such actions. Terrorist activities in Pakistan attributed to the clandestine activities of Indian and Afghan intelligence agencies include:
- A car bomb explosion in Saddar area of Peshawar on 21 December 1995 caused the deaths of 37 persons and injured over 50 others.
- An explosion at Shaukat Khanum Hospital on 14 April 1996, claimed the lives of seven persons and injured to over 34 others.
- A bus traveling from Lahore to Sahiwal was blown up at Bhai Pheru on 28 April 1996, causing the deaths of 44 persons on the spot and injuring 30 others.
- An explosion in a bus near the Sheikhupura hospital killed 9 persons and injured 29 others on 08 May 1996.
- An explosion near Alam chowk, Gujranwala on 10 June 1996 killed 3 persons and injured 11 others.
- A bomb exploded on a bus on GT Road near Kharian on 10 June 1996, killing 2 persons and injuring 10 others.
- On 27 June 1996, an explosion opposite Madrassah Faizul Islam, Faizabad, Rawalpindi, killed 5 persons and injured over 50 others.
- A bomb explosion in the Faisalabad railway station passenger lounge on 08 July 1996 killed 3 persons and injured 20 others
My point is very simple and different from what I think you take it to be. I am not arguing that the mission for RAW is to plant spinach and sell milk.
But to use RAW as an excuse to draw focus away from the current poisonous elements within Pakistan is IMO a big disservice to your own country.
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
You forgot to bolden and underline the next part. You’re welcome 
And yes i didn’t say there aren’t any local elements involved in it. Surely, there must be. But it’s naive to deny RAW maybe involved in it along with other external forces.
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
Your own source makes a very clear and explicit statement about the propensity of the Pakistan government to blame RAW to hide internal problems. I don't think you should have edited that out. But we'll look past that since it is human to err.
On the lines that you have underlined, do not miss the preceding operative word "attributed" to. This follows right after the sentence that indicts Pakistan government's above propensity to divert. So what does that tell us? That Pakistani government has been using this tactic for the attacks listed!
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
Or that Indian spy agencies have been using local elements and taking advantage of existing rifts to commit atrocities, and effectively hiding their involvement. One could argue that RAW trains Guerillas in Afghanistan and exports them to Pakistan. Sure, why not. It's a possibility.
It can go either way....you know that right?
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
yes - anything is possible. I think turning a mere 'possibility' into anything more than that will have the negative effect of letting the real culprits escape.
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
Well, so far what we have observed that Pakistani are at losing end.
If anyone has any basic training in the crime detection. Motive and victim are two key elements.
Any terrorisim on Pakistan soil making Pakistan and Pakistan people as victim cannot be performed by Pakistani. The ultimate losers are Pakistan and its people.
A foreign element specially Bharat/Hindustan/India has to gain a lot from showing that Pakistan is a failed state.......(not true). Its an ideological, political and religious defeat to Bharat/India/Hindustan to have Pakistan flourish on this earth.
Real culprits? who are these people who would want innocent people at a hospital, religious places or street be dead? Pakistan and its people suffer when shops are closed, traffic gets disturbed and political figures are killed.
The more Pakistan is on the news like this more these elements gain.
Culprits are those who have large resources, know the society, speak the same language, and look the same way as Pakistani......but NOT Pakistani.
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
^ are you sure? I personally think the rabid mullas and the quasi-military political machine share a 50 50 in almost all bombings.
If RAW is able to have such impact inside a military regime it is even more a testimony of Pakistan as an impotent force than if it is due to internal strife.
.
How do you explain away lal masjid (both occupation and after math)?
How do you explain BB bombing?
So many devil seeds have been sown and blaming external forces is simply continuing the rape and destruction of the country
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
There is no doubt that RAW has been involved in terrorist activities across Pakistan for long. I don't know why RAW doesn't want to see Pakistan happy
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
RAW motive is not destablise Pakistan completely, though if they want that cant happen. Full unstable Pakistan with nuclear arms is also threat to India
at the moment they are just trying to keep Pakistan busy internally and make Pakistan army engaged within Pakistan.
if they are able to do that then Pakistan may not think or focus on Kashmir or any operation against India. so keeping the whole war thing out of india by keeping Pakistan on back foot and at bay. in a way they are emulating and evenging what Pakistan has done towards Kashmir freedom movement in occupied Kashmir.
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
sarfraz and amour: this is just wishful conspiracy theory. Wishful because blaming RAW would make you feel better by denying the internal fractions within Pakistan that cause such attacks. Conspiracy theory because you think RAW "must be doing it just like ISI used to!".
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
Does India not do that? Whenver there is an explosion in some mandir/market Indian Govt immediately jumps the gun and says the bomb making material is linked to Pakistani based groups etc. Instead of coming up with this lame excuse, can you say why India would not want to destabilise Pakistan? All armies need an “enemy”, Pakistani army has India (and now “Taliban”) while Indian army has got Pakistan to justify their existence, their expenses, demand for more money etc.
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
Instead of coming up with this lame excuse, can you say why India would not want to destabilise Pakistan? All armies need an "enemy", Pakistani army has India (and now "Taliban") while Indian army has got Pakistan to justify their existence, their expenses, demand for more money etc.
lame excuse for what? Teggy excluded some key parts of his source and I pointed that out. If you see any excuse for anything you are imagining it.
Why India wouldn't want to destabilize Pakistan? Simple. As long as there is a stable government in Pakistan we are safe from some crackpot outfit launching a missile at our direction.
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
Why India wouldn't want to destabilize Pakistan? Simple. As long as there is a stable government in Pakistan we are safe from some crackpot outfit launching a missile at our direction.
India would like to keep Pakistan on backfoot, a stable Pakistan means less need of Indian army, a competitor for its "IT" business and what not. By keeping Pakistan unstable would also mean Pakistan stays behind in everything and eventually endup depending on Indian goods.
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
^ So now you are speculating on motives. Enjoy if you like that sort of exercise.
I personally go on the basis of facts and deeds before accusing or concluding
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
^ So now you are speculating on motives. Enjoy if you like that sort of exercise.
I personally go on the basis of **facts **and deeds before accusing or concluding
What facts did India really have when they blamed everything on Pakistan?
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
India carrying out terrorist attacks on pakistan 4 times a month ... now that's a stretch.
Let's not give so much benefit of doubt to the obvious suspects. .. obvious criminals i mean.
Re: Hindustan carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan
Elections are over in pakistan, mushy influence has gone down and now these kind of topics are coming up.