Hinduisnm vs Islam

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nabeelc:
Who says Muslims are behind in science. Mulims knew things 1400 years ago what hindus are still unaware of or became aware recently.

Really, but how does that make muslims ahead in science. It is the allah who has told you all these things and not mohd., as you would agree. So how it makes muslims advance in science.

And when you say "the heavens and the earth used to be one solid mass", it is because they were ignorant. Do you mean heavens as universe or heaven as defined in the book full of hoors and gardens.

We follow Quran blindly because we know it is nothing but the truth.

How do you know, you should say because we believe it is nothing but the truth.

102

Originally posted by Masooma:
NO WONDER WHY MAJORITY HINDUS AFTER MIGRATING TO WESTERN COUNTIES BECOME MORE VULGAR AND UNSOPHISTICATED,

What do you mean by that. What do they start doing that they cannot do in India. How about a good number of muslims getting caught smuggling drugs or arms, more sophisticated that hindus, I believe. How about the muslims in your own pakland drinking alochol or indulging in prostitution despite of the rigid nature of Islam.

IT SHOULD REMAIN THE SAME AS IT WAS CREATED.

The best religion is the one that evolves. What was it before Islam was created, no religion I suppose. If there was some religion before that, it means Islam has evolved out of that trying to take the best suited practices. Even Mohd. doesn't deny the earlier prophets, that means god himself evolves the religion and keep on changing it from time to time. Only a rider has been kept on Islam that Mohd. is the last prophet. Who knows how true it is. What will happen if there is a nuclear holocaust and the whole world gets destroyed and life begins again. God will come again and make somebody else a prophet or not. What about other life forms in the universe, if there are any. There are other prophets for them or Quran holds true for them also.

YOU PEOPLE(HINDUS) DON'T PERFORM SATI PRACTICE DOESN'T MEAN YOUR RELEGION RESTRICTED IT, BUT ITS YOU PEOPLE YOURSELF WHO DIDN'T FIND IT VERY PLEASING AND STOPPED(I THINK..??)

Good, isn't it. Other vices are also on their way out.

103

ZZ said:

mundayya.. bother about ur barbarian religion where breaking places of worship of other religion is act of bravery

well let's look at the activities of hindus at the time when temples where being broken:

"Candalas (untouchables) must live out of the town, and their clothes must be the mantles of the deceased." -- Visnusmrti 16:14.

"These (castes) should live near mounds, trees, and cremation-grounds, in mountains and in groves, recognizable and making a living by their own innate activities. But the dwellings of 'Fierce' Untouchables (candala) and 'Dog-cookers' (svapaca) should be outside the village; they must use discarded bowls, and dogs and donkeys should be their wealth. Their clothing should be the clothes of the dead, and their food should be in broken dishes; their ornaments should be made of black iron, and they should wander constantly. A man who carries out his duties should not seek contact with them; they should do business with one another and marry with those who are like them. Their food, dependent upon others, should be given to them in a broken dish, and they should not walk about in villages and cities at night." -- Manusmrti 10:50-54.

ZZ says:

how will people convert to other religion from islam. u kill them if they dare to get out of ur uncivilized faith.

"If one who (being a member of the Candala or some other outcaste) must not be touched, intentionally defiles by his touch one who (as a member of a twice-born caste) may be touched (by other twice-born persons only), he (or she) shall be put to death. If a woman in her courses (touches such a person), she shall be lashed with a whip." -- Visnusmrti 5:104-5.

Yeah, well now we can see why muslims would rush to convert to hindu religion. being put to death for touching the twice borns is very civilised isn't it?

104

WHy is the cow sacred?..Simple answer

1.Apparant aryan invasions
2.Suden cahnge to a primarily rurasl/agricultural society
3.Cows provided milk..they ploghed the fields.
4.They were very usefull...should not be killed

.
. . One should not eat cows!
nothing sacred aobut it

105

"If one who (being a member of the Candala or some other outcaste) must not be touched, intentionally defiles by his touch one who (as a member of a twice-born caste) may be touched (by other twice-born persons only), he (or she) shall be put to death. If a woman in her courses (touches such a person), she shall be lashed with a whip."

Yes i have a copy of that book at home, i respect it ver much, also i consider 100% of the mater in that book to be THE truth the only trunth and gods word.
Pfft

"We follow Quran blindly because we know it is nothing but the truth"

I fortunatly i am clever enough NOT to blindly follow the above passage.Hinduism akso teaches that there is more than just one path to truth..or god, islam may wel be one of them

[This message has been edited by anant (edited August 09, 2000).]

106

Mundyaa, this Manusmriti you are bringing up again and again means nothing to today's hindus. Rest assured, 99.999% of the hindus have never seen or followed this smriti and it only surfaces while discussing with the likes of you on the vices of hinduism. And moreover I do not see anybody denying the wrongs in Hinduism, so what's the big deal. There is something wrong and we are in the process of correcting it. What do you want us to do, blindly follow like you do.

And Manusmriti is not god's words and hence anybody is free to challenge it or not follow it. One does not cease to be a hindu if he doesn't follow the manusmriti as a whole but chooses only the good points and take the rest of goodness from Quran. If someone thinks that Islam is better he may convert without any resistance from any quarter.

107

Andhra i haven't read the whole post just your original.
Firstly are we covering Muslims in general or just Pakistani's???

I will take it as Pakistanis.
So here are mine.
Shaukut Aziz - Head of the IMF for more than a decade.
3 Under secretary Generals - directly under Kofi Annan - for more than 20 years each.
One is the head of the UNFPA.
The other is head of recruitment in the UN.
The third heads all conventions and there plannings.
2 level D2 - head of Ecosoc - economic and social council in the UN.
Second head of the UNEP based in Kenya.

That Pakistani LORD in Britain - head of the BEST WAY brand - multi million dollar company.
The original owner of ACER - i believe (don't quote me, it was some huge computer company in the US can't remember the name) was Pak - sold it for 300 million - now runs many small upstarts.

As for nobel winners from PAK:
Abdus Salam with two others Americans discovered and explained the electromagnetic interaction between sub atomic nuclei particles.

108

Andhra i haven't read the whole post just your original.
Firstly are we covering Muslims in general or just Pakistani's???
I will take it as Pakistanis.

I was not talking about Pakistanis.
I am talking about people of the same culture and language whose only difference is religion.
And I am contrasting the differences between the no. of significant acheivers.
By significant acheivers I don't mean successful business executives and British Lords!
I mean Great Artists,Thinkers and Scientists

109

ZZ:>>how will people convert to other religion from islam. u kill them if they dare to get out of ur uncivilized faith.

ZZ there's no "holy barbaric Islamic sharia" in India so obviously no one is gonna kill any muslim who wants to venture outside - tell me how many millions of muslims do we hear about "reverting" back to the religion of their ancestors these days??

now about ur claims of hinduism changing along the passage of time & weeding out wats not appropriate - wat good a religion is if I or u have to define again & again wats good & wats not for the rest to follow?

110

ZZ I would also like to add this to the post of kk
if you be changing the religion according to ur thoughts what would you teach your kids and how whould u teach them .its like every day menue kind of thing 'honey whats for dinner tonight'. no heart feelings plz. just wanted to understand hinduism

111

Mundyaa, this Manusmriti you are bringing up again and again means nothing to today's hindus

As far as I understand it, Manusmitri is a very important part of the Vedas, and the Brahmins in particular hold a lot of store by it.

Now that you hindus are rejecting most of the teachings in your books I don't really see how you can call this religion that you now follow 'Hinduism'. Most of the bedrocks of hindu religion have been kicked into touch according to you, yet you still want to consider yourselves hindus.

The truth is you have accepted better ideas from other religions like Buddhism, and Islam which reject hindu fundamentals like sati and casteism and decided to call them hinduism.

No harm in rejecting evil practices of hinduism, but to try to take credit for new ideas and call it hinduism(which in most cases is the complete oposite) is intellectual dishonesty.

This sort of Hindutva revision of history is still ongoing, that's why we see Hindu websites claiming that the Taj Mahal is originally a hindu temple, that's why we see the Babri masjid pulled down by crazed mobs of hindu zealots claiming it is bulit on the temple of Raam.

If you just accepted your religion or rejected it, it would be more acceptable.

Secualrism my a$$.

112

It is very unfortunate that the definition of believers in Islam is that only those who are prepared to believe that Hazrat Mohammed Sahib was the last Prophet of God. Only those will be considered as believers who are prepared to believe in what our Allmighty Creater says in the holy Qyran through the Great Hazrat Mohammed Sahib.

I consider myself as a believer. Why ? because I do believe that there is God and there is only one God and He is the same God for all of us. I have great respect for the Hazrat Mohammed sahib but where I differ from the other Muslims is that IMHO he was not the last Prophet sent by the Allmighty. I'm sure that even Baba Guru Nanak Dev ji was not the last prophet sent by the Allmighty. there have been many massengers of God since Mohammed Sahib and will be many more in the future.

If God's intention was that He wanted everyone to follow the massege he sent to the mankind throgh Hazrat Mohammed Sahib then I can assure you that He would have made sure that the task was completed in much less than 1400 years but as it is it's nowhere completion.
There are 6 billion people on this planet and only 1/6 of them are Muslims. IMHO people should not be so narrow minded in thinking that the only path of being a believer in God can only be the one that they believe in.

Baba Abraham was a great prophet,Lord Moses and Lord Jesus were great prophets too Hazrat Mohammed was sent with a message which was a little different than his predecessors on the othe hand in a different part of the world Lord Rama, Lord Krishna, Lord Budha are also considered to be Avtars (reincarnations) of the same allmighty God (Vishnu). They also came with their messages to humanity. As far as the Sikhs are concerned Guru Nanak also brought to us God's message of love and peace.

Why do we have to fight with each other by condemming these great messangers of love and peace. I'm sure we can respect them all as they were all great givers to mankind and regardless of being Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Isai, we can live like brothers.

113

DHIR:
"What do you mean by that. What do they start doing that they cannot do in India. How about a good number of muslims getting caught smuggling drugs or arms, more sophisticated that hindus, I believe. How about the muslims in your own pakland drinking alochol or indulging in prostitution despite of the rigid nature of Islam"

-Dear ,yes i know many muslims do all sort of unsophisticated and shameful thing, BUT my point was, they do it because that is their character and relegion has nothing to do with it, unlike hinduism which keeps on changing according to what people want, Islam remains what it was. If they smuggle it is haram,and will be haram till the day of judgment, but you have any gurantee that sumgling, drinking and stripping will not be allowed in hindusim?well The answer is no, it can happen in hindusim(do you see miss uni and miss world , stripping indian(hindu) women on international level, it may be allowed in hindusim one day).Do you get what i'm trying to say??Its not about relegion, its about how reliable hindusim is???????perhaps not a bit!

"What was it before Islam was created, no religion I suppose"

Excuse moi??? Well sir, Islam was the relegion of the first man on this earth!Adam tought the same to his childeren as Mohammad(s.a.w) tought his people.Do you even know Adam was a prophet, so was Jesus, so was Moses, so was Abrahim and so on..and all of them tought the same thing as Mohammad(s.a.w) did, the only difference is that Jesus knew there are going to come more prophets after him,Moses knew other prophets will come but after Mohammad(s.a.w) no prophets will be sent.Allah ended Naboowat on Muhammad(s.a.w) but began imamat.All the great preachers we hear, they are good men,budha,Guru nanak,and rest are good men!but not prophets and they did claim to be either!

Dhir:
"will happen if there is a nuclear holocaust and the whole world gets destroyed and life begins again"

Talk sense my dear...be realistic! Yes there is going to be a big destruction and we know that,it will be the day of judgment!life will begin again , not on earth,but in the world hereafter.

"There are other prophets for them or Quran holds true for them also."
-As i said before, Islam is the book of all prophets, it holds truth for everyone, it is unchanged unlike some of your books which are not reliable at all,who knows what will be inserted or deleted from the book of yours tomorrow?But Quran is the same in Pak, in Afganistan, in America because it is a reliable and unchanged book which speaks the truth about life!

Dhir:
"And when you say "the heavens and the earth used to be one solid mass", it is because they were ignorant. Do you mean heavens as universe or heaven as defined in the book full of hoors and gardens."

-What a shame dhir, instead of looking at what is written and how advance is Quran which tells us the earth was one solid mass, you are trying to be funny??or should i say IGNORANT! AND BLIND!
Atleast we follow blindly something we read and understand, unlike you who can't even read and can't understand either.
How can we say Quran speak the truth?Well we can say that because Quran delivers the message delivered by many other prophets such as Jesus,Moses and many others, they have there followers all over the world,Christains have many similar views as muslim do, why??Why do all of them Talked about one GOD??they didn't plan on leing or did they??Christains have same views why?its only because the prophet they believe in tought the same as Muhammad(s.a.w) did, now come on, you just have your people believing on what you believe, but muslims aren't the only people who believe in one God, hell heaven, day of judgment.....Jews believe the same, when we say Moses they know who we are talking about because he existed, when we say Jesus they know who we are talking about, Bible tells us stories about prophets and Quran talks about those prophets as well. This is why we KNOW QURAN SPEAKS THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!

HAVE A PROBLEM??

EXCUSE MY LANGUGE SIR BUT I HAVE TO SAY

PISS OFF

Masooma

[This message has been edited by Masooma (edited August 09, 2000).]

114

This might be irrelevant, but I love this line from the movie, "The Mummy" :

"And remember, death is only the begining" - A lot of depth and meaning in that sentence, especially for us muslims who believe that our actual lives will begin after we die and that this world is only temporary.

Well said Masooma, I like the way you explained it to dhir, and whether he gets it or not, thats a different story all together.

115

I just like to add a little more to my previous message. I think that if the followers of Hazrat Mohammed can stop saying that the only way to find and understand God is by following Hazrat mohammed's religion then this world can be a much happier place.

To be a good Muslim it may offcourse be important to believe that Hazrat Mohammed is God's messenger but it should not be important to believe this to be able to believe in God. Hazrat Mohammed's way is not the only path to God and the other paths may not necceraly be all wrong, just because they are a bit different from the message brought by Hazrat Mohammed.

116

Banta, its the only way, infact you cannot be called a muslim if U dont believe in the message of : " There is only one God and Mohammed is the last prophet ".

Read the Quran, Allah(SWT), sent Islam(the message) through Prophet Mohammed(SAW).

This is the only way for a successful hereafter.

[This message has been edited by zman (edited August 09, 2000).]

117

The duty of every muslim is to make Daawa (call others towards Islam). To all my non-muslim friends I call on you to listen and to read without any bias to the teachings of Islam. Do not take present day muslims as examples. Follow your heart compare your religion and Islam and decide by yourselves what makes more sense and logic. If even then you feel that what you do and believe in is right, then be it.
You have seen the truth and you have denied it, so the onus is squarely on your shoulders. May we all be guided to the right path.
I think there is no point in bashing any religion as the change needs to come from within. Bashing and fighting will lead us nowhere. If my non-muslim friends have any questions or objections about Islam please put them on the table and we will answer them and vice versa.
Regards

118

No! Point is whether or not there is death penalty for changing religion in Islam? Does it make sense? If it does, tell me how?

The reason I did not bother to open thread was because discussion refuses to go forward. Other than waht they have studies in 'Pakistan studies' on Hinduism, they no little. Same shout of caste system! Ever wondered why India has better literacy rate than Pakistan if system is so oppressive. Why less percentage of people have access to education in Pakistan than India? Why middle class almost does not exist in Pakistan while it is growing in India? Why Indi's current president comes from formerly untouchable castes while Pakistan does not grow beyong 22 families? Why land refoms empowering people happened in many parts of Idnia while in pakistan they have to wait? Was there a single movement for giving reservations to lower castes in Hindus. It just happened as a part of going reforms. But mundayyas do not want to speak on it.

Now turn back and ask about Mohammad's marriage to 9 yr old and ask whether the personm who could think of marrying 9 yr. old was a normal person, leave alone prophet and hell will break loose.

The reason I did not bother to open thread is simple. Discussion does not go on equal terms. I remember mundayya used to dance quite a bit on kamasutra saying that it is a religious scripture. One day, I tookk the bet and started comparing kamasutra and quran arguing kamsutra is better book. Immediately likes of zman jumped in crying foul and thread was deleted. oned good thing after that is that mundayya did not talk of kamasutra after that.

here we have pandit xtreme who translate 'kulwadhu' as 'one who did not see sun' and 'dharma' as occupation. They do not even try to go beyond propoganda websites and try to see truth. They dont want to.

119

ZZ open another thread please.

120

Zman

Banta, its the only way<<

Many of us don't believe this ....and herein lies the problem, there are more than one way and being a decent tolerant person is more important than belief in God. God doesn't punish anybody for not singing his praises.

ZZ,

No! Point is whether or not there is death penalty for changing religion in Islam? Does it make sense? If it does, tell me how?<<

Very good question. I agree that the discussion doesn't go on equal footing that is why I have refrained from participating in this and other threads. Let them talk alone.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited August 09, 2000).]