Well said, Faceup.
Unfortunately, progressive muslims like you are an absolute minority. I wish you good luck in your pursuit of thoughts/ideas based on common sense and NOT 1400 years old tribal !
[This message has been edited by Akmed786 (edited August 07, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Admin (edited August 07, 2000).]
Admin :
They are facts quoted by people about hinduism and you dont like it....hmmmmm. Maybe you should have killed this thread to begin with and not waited so long.
As far as I am concerned I am debating and I'm positive others are too.
ZMAN >> The topic is still Hinduism vs Islam
Yes ZMAN the topic still is that.
But if you think I am going into the history & beliefs of these two religions or any religion and justify one or the other you are mistaken.
Religion is a matter of belief.I am not going into that.
Read the first thread.
All I did was I wondered why there is such a disparity in the number of eminent people produced by Bengalis of different religions.
I did not do it to insult any religion.I just windered why
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So if people are willing to rationally discuss, it will be great.
Andhra : Then ask the Adimn to simply rename the thread because what I'm hearing from you is that religious philosophies are not a topic of discussion here.
Our succeess has more spiritual connotations to it then other beliefs - probably a different thread to discuss.
For us a better/ successful life is a spiritually enlightened life rather then amassing wealth for wealth's sake, with the same token we are allowed to fully enjoy what Allah(SWT) has given us.
[This message has been edited by zman (edited August 07, 2000).]
Andhra : Then ask the Adimn to simply rename the thread because what I’m hearing from you is that religious philosophies are not a topic of discussion here.
Admin ZMAN has a point.
Rename the thread for me please.
Now what will the name be ?
Winners and Losers
Admin:
I request that you leave this thread alone. The post wasn't started by a Pakistani and so far, all the Pakistanis have generally stuck to the theme of the thread post which as far as I can understand it is a comparison of religions titled Hinduism v Islam. Some have tried to divert this into a different topic i.e., achievements of individuals in India/Pakistan.
There are two separate posts already in the political forums in which achievements of Indians have been propagated by Rani and Mohabbat. You may recall that I congratulated the Indians on their achievements, although some of the claims turned out to be lies as exposed by Malik73. I can find the relevant thread and post a link if you wish.
If this thread gets deleted, bearing in mind some of the stuff which goes unchecked in this forum re islam, then I no longer wish to participate in this forum. this is nothing against any of you personally, just a matter of principle.
Mr Xtreme
Mr. Xtreme you are right. Hindus are not even brave enough to protect their own religion. The only way they know how is to bash Islam which genrally speaks for their own insecurities about their own religion.
Andhra, please provide explanations for my queries (or Xtremes' or others' questions). If you're gonna divert and mutate this thread into something totally irrelevant then I suggest you do not participate in this thread.
Damnnn : DO I SOUND LIKE THE MODERATOR OR WHAT
[This message has been edited by zman (edited August 07, 2000).]
zman and the rest - We don’t know what you were referring to with the facts and all. We simply don’t like the personal attacks.
If you can debate without the attacks on individuals and carry on, then fine. Otherwise we shut it down.
Xtreme - You know we don’t shut down threads without just cause. Keep on debating, just stick to the subject. We know that you are more than capable of proving your point without the personal attacks. You know it’s nothing personal, just a matter of principle for us too.
The thread itself is a valuable one. We don’t want to lose it. But let’s make sure that it doesn’t get killed because of abuse and profanity…let’s get it into the archive.
Andhra, Islam is well defined. Some minor shia sunni tussle. But on minor points.
Define Hinduism so that one can discuss.
[quote]
Originally posted by ullu:
Andhra, Islam is well defined. Some minor shia sunni tussle. But on minor points.
Define Hinduism so that one can discuss.
[/quote]
aNDHRA & OTHER INDIAN EXPERIENCE NARRATER ARE UNFAIRLY CORNERING MOSLEM FROM PAKISTAN INTO COMPARING THERE HIGHER RATIO OF ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS UNIVERSITIES ,I.I.T.
I m from iit kanpur,and much has been made of indian iitians.deshpandes sycamore billion $ company Satyam computers etc.
Bengal where i did poat graduate i brushed shoulder with satyajit,amartya sen etc.East Bengal moslem are not only different by religion but also ethnically.It is the beeuty of islam that it takes the peasents of zamindar hindu just with religion improves them to produce Qazi nazrul islam,mr. Anees world reknowned economist (not noble but every thing is not noble pz. winners contribution.Dacca university is comparable to calcutta univerity .
Andhra & mundya are over sure of there positions of superiority of non moslem but they fail to realize array of men of letters like jhumpa lahiri Pulitzer-is one aspect of talent .Bengais are good in literary skill pen & paoer work like clerk etc.Only bengalis will deride there futility in over all economic upliftment thats why there expeiment with communism is 30 yrs. old.
As some one said islam as a religion is superior to other no doubt but it dfoesnt promise a sub human coolie in bangladesh intellectual power of ramanujen from south.but yes it can assure equally fulfilling & satisfying life if not more. So question is Ramanujen didnt benefit from his religion rather hinderence he fell ill b./c he couldnt eat meat.untill fell ill with t.b. & died at very young age under 40.He was remarkable mathemetician from madras,
Neverthe less islam has more than 1000 yrs approx of being leader in all sciences medicine,astronomy,chemistry mathematics before rennaisence in late 18 th century when europe translated the arabic mauscript of more than 900 years.
so have the smart indians done math yet? probably not… well i’ll do it for u.
250,000 devdasies in one state of india.
250,000 * 15 (hindu majority states) = 3,750,000
close to 4 million prostitutes and 300 million lowlife shoodars out of a total of 800 million hindus. now ask urself who is responsible for creating these millions of shoodars and prostitutes? is it the brahman who some claim speaks truth all the time… and/or the perverted cult created by brahman? If later is the case then lets not blame these shoodars for turning to other religions… since hinduism has only kept them under the brahman. shoodar women has been turned into a prostitute for brahman. These numbers are monumental… and should be brought up when discussing acheivements of hindus/hinduism.
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extreme, im with you on this one. andhra, faceup etc. here started this and now cant find a place to hide.
faceup im still waiting on why u think its okay for you to blame muslim ulemas, its institutions? and its not okay for me, extreme and kk to blame brahman for producing 300 million shoodars and 4 million prostitutes? pls explain.
Xtreme I don’t know what you are so miffed about!
The title of the thread is not being interpreted the way I thought it would be.
Anyway even at this stage let’s stick to the topic.
Go read the first posting.
The topic IS NOT Which religion is superior.
The topic is “How come people belonging to the same culture and speaking the same language and who only differ in religion turn out to be so different”.One branch produces eminent scientists and artists and the other one?
Don’t you think the contrast is interesting ? I do
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Keep prostitution and maltreating women in India alone for separate threads.
I can understand your shock and anger because such things do not exist in Pakistan do they ?
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Ha ha, talk about a sucker for punishment!
Ok my brahmin friend, let’s discuss|:
The topic IS NOT Which religion is superior.
Why is it titled Hinduism v Islam then? RememberYOU picked the title.
As for why hindus produce scientists and artists I don’t know - maybe it’s the caste system works so well. You tell me; it’s your religion - convince me of it’s superiority or otherwise.
I expect you will give a good reply because as you said:
Look, you have already convinced faceup, who knows, maybe you can convince the rest of us maleech’s
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[This message has been edited by Mr Xtreme (edited August 08, 2000).]
Xtreme >> The topic IS NOT Which religion is superior.
Why is it titled Hinduism v Islam then?
I already answered.Can you read English.If you can you can read the answer I copied from my previous post.
The title of the thread is not being interpreted the way I thought it would be.
Xtreme you said
As for why hindus produce scientists and artists I don’t know - maybe it’s the caste system works so well. You tell me; it’s your religion - convince me of it’s superiority or otherwise.
Glad to see you are not denying Hindus produce good scientists.
Still my post was not about Hindus producing scientists.
It was about (and I am tired
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of repeating this point.)
“Why do people of the same culture,the same language whose only difference is religion have such a disparity in the number of eminent people they produce?”
So stick to the topic please.
The post was not about what religion is superior.
Nor was it meant to state that if sombody from your religion gets a nobel prize that makes your religion superior.
I was just wondering at the contrast between East and West Bengalis
Andhra,
The Thread is Hinduism v Islam. If you don't want to talk about hinduism and islam then open a different thread somewhere else.
Otherwise stick to your topic.
andhra would now like to discuss how come hinduism has produced one or two nobel prize winners and scientists in comparison to bangali muslims.
well as extreme said, hinduism has also produced these zillions of shoodars and religious prostitutes too… why is it that you want to only discuss hindu scientists which remotely has NOTHING to do with hinduism… on the other hand these shoodars and religious prostitutes are solely created because of their poor fate of being born a hindu slave in this day and age. If hinduism does not allow these practices… then is this the brahman who has created this filth?
hindus response to this stinking ugliness is that its a “personal beleif” and we shouldnt discuss this… well maybe u can do so on a hindutva forum NOT AROUND HERE.
whatever happened to faceup?
Interesting thread. It sure does not contain what the title suggests.
I thought we'd be in here discussing the differences and similarities between the religions. It appears that the author changed their mind somewhere along the line about what they wanted to talk about. Anyway....
What does Religion have to do with the success or failure of any group of people? Professionals are not groomed out of religion, academic institutions produce them and faith does not predispose anyone. Genes, ambition and financial ability have more to do with someone becoming a scientist than what faith they adhere to.
Besides, who knows how religiously orthodox these "scientists" are.....? A little bit of a contradiction in terms don't ya'think?
If this was an attempt to prove Hindus smarter than Muslims, so far it has failed.
If this was an attempt to prove Hindus smarter than Muslims, so far it has failed.
Muzna I am not saying that.Infact to the contrary!
How can that be ? Remeber they are the same people who just chose a different religion.
I really expected some of you to analyze why.
Read the first post!!
I am not comparing religions.
I am just asking why is there such a contrast in East and West Bengalis
Our Brahmin friend Andhra said:
[quote]
There has always been only one definition for a Brahmin.A brahmin is one who speaks the Truth.
[/quote]
"If a man of one birth (Sudra) hurls cruel words at one of the twice-born, his tongue should be cut out, **for he was born from the rear-end. If he mentions their name or caste maliciously, a red-hot iron nail ten-fingerslong should be thrust into his mouth. If he is so proud as to instruct priests about their duty, the king should have hot oil poured into his mouth and ears." -- **Manusmrti 8:270-272.
=============================================
Well if brahmins always speak the truth, then I guess shudras must deserve this treatment.
And then people like Rani have the nerve to tell us that muslims were converted at sword-point!
Hey faceup, come out wherever you are - we got some ten inch nails for ya!
Xtreme Manusmriti is old hat
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I am quoting from Upanishads which came after Vedas.