KK
So, playing the same card as your pal - Xtreme; resorting to 'trashing' rather than 'debating'. Stay focused to the main post and questions raised therein.
Do you have an explanation/answer as to why bengalis or hindus(generally) excel in science, arts & technology while we, muslims, excel in being at the lowest rung.
Does that have to do with the way we have shunned secular education & technology while others have embraced and marched on towards a better future?
faceup squawks:
[quote]
So, playing the same card as your pal - Xtreme; resorting to 'trashing' rather than 'debating'. Stay focused to the main post and questions raised therein.
[/quote]
This thread is titled Hinduism V Islam. You have yet to give a single comment which is relevant to the topic at hand.
Do you have an explanation/answer as to why bengalis or hindus(generally) excel in science, arts & technology while we, muslims, excel in being at the lowest rung.
Maybe it's because they are hindus. Are you ready to convert back faceup? Which caste will you be when you convert? Mind you, becoming a Brahmin isn't a matter of choice my bag-faced friend.
It's the same old story, isn't it? When cornered like you have been for the past 1/2 dozen posts all you've done is attempt to deviate from the central theme to spread anti-hindu vitriol.
There is no hope in hell for you to present any credible viewpoints to questions posed by Andhra, other than to start lolly gagging on quaint vernacular. After all those years in western society you still remain "FOB".
well, if any hindu can answer this one question we can continue this discussion why do so many hindus convert to other religions?
if hinduism creates genius nobel prize winners then ppl should be converting to hinduism and not the other way around.
faceup finally showed his true colors… another hindu wanna be a muslim. no surprises there.
There is no hope in hell for you to present any credible viewpoints to questions posed by Andhra
This thread is about hinduism v Islam, and it wasn't started by me as you know fine well you slippery weasel you. Andhra still hasn't manged to show me how being a hindu leads to high achievement as opposed to being a muslim. You still havn't done it either despite your cheerleading efforts.
If you can then do it, otherwise shut up and admit I've whupped your ass once again. Don't go round in circles.
Here's the question once again:
How does being a hindu as opposed to being a muslim lead to high achievement?
Andra says :
"And the tradition is that you are free. You are free to be superstitious and equally free to be not superstitious.You need no baptism, no certificates from anybody saying you are a proper Hindu,you have no Fatwas and no rules as to how many times you have to pray.
"
is it fair that a person be branded as an untouchable because he/she is born to a Shoodre(untouchable) family -- I see no freedom in that, infact all I see is hate for other human beings(or as Rani puts it, Dehumnizing of human beings) unless you can scientifically provide reasons as to why this caste system is justified in Hinduism.
Islam came to this world for this reason and others, to stop all the inhumane ritulistic activities that were carried out in the name of religion and/or tradition.
Again, these are not pot shots at Hinduism, but the facts that I have heard about your religion, and if I am wrong about these facts(since I've heard them), then my apologies.
Please answer my questions, because, I need to hear from the horses mouth, so to speak
How does being a hindu as opposed to being a muslim lead to high achievement?
I think the question should be rephrased
"WHY does being a hindu as opposed to being a muslim lead to high achievement?"
In other words how come people of the same culture whose only difference is religion have such disparity in the number of high acheivers they produce?
Which caste will you be when you convert? Mind you, becoming a Brahmin isn't a matter of choice my bag-faced friend.
Know all about Hinduism don't you Xtreme.
There has always been only one definition for a Brahmin.A brahmin is one who speaks the Truth.
Know all about Hinduism don't you Xtreme.
There has always been only one definition for a Brahmin.A brahmin is one who speaks the Truth. <<<
so all the shoodars are considered liars in hinduism? compared to the hindu shoodar women who are considered prostitutes of brahman.... this is still not that bad.
still.... can a shoodar become a brahman in his lifetime even if he doesnt lie and refuses to be molested by brahman?
Andhra the Brahmin crowed:
[quote]
There has always been only one definition for a Brahmin.A brahmin is one who speaks the Truth.
[/quote]
So maybe you can tell faceup the filthy 'malech' why he can't be a Brahmin then?
Or maybe he is one and he just hasn't been telling the truth?
while Andhra is up on a heads count marathon, lets see if he can keep track of indian prostitutes aka devdasis.
Andhra darling I hope u can count into millions - perhaps faceup can give u a helping hand in counting here!
========================================
Religion’s Role in Indian Prostitution
In addition to the ways that poverty directs hundreds of thousands of Indian women to prostitution, there are also various religious forces at play. These religious aspects of the commercial sex trade frequently overlap with the basic survival needs created by poverty and its
constraints; but it is in this dimension that Indian prostitution is distinctly different from prostitution in the West. Indian women, whose poverty seems to leave them no alternative other than to sell their bodies, understand, in accordance with their Hindu faith, that their fate has been determined by forces greater than themselves. In response,
the women commit themselves to prostitution as a religious appeasement of those forces.
The most traditional, systemic role religion plays in prostitution is through the Devdasi system.24 Candidates for the system are usually poor, illiterate rural citizens. In the temple, they take a vow of prostitution and may initially engage in sexual relations with a “priest” in religious practices. They receive a tattoo on their foreheads, above the red bindi. The red bindi usually denotes marriage in Indian culture, but in combination with the tattoo, it symbolizes one who is sexually committed to religion. In addition, the prostitutes put on a wooden
necklace as a symbol of their commitment. The necklace is never to be removed. The compounded symbols are intended to permanently mark one as a devdasi regardless of her dress, location, or demeanor. The
goddess to whom these prostitutes are committed is called Yellaamma.
In an annual fair held during a designated month, the initiation of candidates is formally recognized. Men come to the fair to observe who is being initiated. Subsequent to their observation, many men choose a devdasi. Even married men come to take a woman; it is, after all, an element of religious practice.
Usually, the man lives with the devdasi for a short period of time. When the man selects another devdasi or feels that his current religious mate is no longer suitable, he simply leaves her without responsibility or
obligation. Because of his use, the woman is now considered less attractive and is subsequently chosen by less influential, less attractive, or even less respectable men. This cyclical dependency continues indefinitely, for while her patrons have no commitment to her, she is committed to being a sexual object. At 23 or 24 years of age, a devdasi is usually the mother of 6-7 children, each the result of a relationship
with a different man. She is a relatively unattractive prospect and the community is not pleased with the presence of a large, unsupported family. She may be able to take up residence in a brothel in order to provide some level of self-support. Because she belongs to the goddess Yellaamma, her fatherless offspring do so as well. While there is a ceremonial religious event in which she dedicates her children into
prostitution in service to the goddess, it is already a culturally implicit fact. The children of a devdasi have to continue as part of the devdasi system. There are no personal options.
Prostitution in India is largely a Hindu industry. When asked who patronized the prostitutes, “Pandit,” a young man interviewed by the IJM who works as an agent or promoter of prostitutes, made it very
clear that Muslims and Christians were not customers. Specifically in reference to Muslims he said, “They may have three or four wives, but they won’t buy drugs from me or come near a prostitute.” It is not uncommon, however, for tourists, including Americans, to patronize thewomen.
The Hindu worldview is one that encourages tolerance. Those whose economic situation seems to leave them no alternative except
prostitution learn to tolerate their plight. The hope of reincarnation discourages them from challenging their circumstances. They hold that by doing the best that they can within their assigned station in life, they
will be rewarded with higher social status in the next life. If, on the other hand, they rebel, they will destine themselves to worse circumstances the next time around.
www.ijm.org/India.htm#prostitution
==========================================
So this religion teaches its followers two things - first there’s no such thing as self respect or moral values. Second with a lolypop of reincarnation, it lures them into serving to the insidious desires of brahmin perverts, creating bag full of bastards - Andhra make sure u count those bastard childs as well as achievements of hinduism!!
[quote]
Originally posted by KK:
**
Prostitution in India is largely a Hindu industry. **
[/quote]
This is a lie. Go to bombay. You will get as many Muslim prostitutes as u want. And that pundits are customers is another lie. Given a small percentage of pundits in population, prostitution wont survive with just pundits supporting the trade.
Which families do Nargis and Noor Jehan, Begum Akhtar and Jaddanbai came from, What did this Kotha culture exactly do.
Devadasi Cult : A Sociological Analysis/Jogan Shankar.
"The female dancers and singers attached to temples are generally referred to by the term 'Devadasis', which literally means 'female slaves of the deity'. They are not allowed to marry any mortal man and their dedication to temple service is considered as constituting a marriage with the deity. The cult of dedicating girls to temple is prevailing all over India in different forms and names, such as Maharis in Kerala, Natis in Assam, Muralis in Maharashtra, Bogams in Andhra Pradesh and Jogatis or Basavis in Karnataka state, Thevardiyar in Tamil Nadu.
"These servants of deities were said to be expert in music and dance in mediaeval period. As centuries passed, their services shifted from gods to earthly gods and lords. ** The women so dedicated to the deity as devadasis, usually lead a life of prostitutes with a religious sanction.
"According to an estimation, girls dedicated as devadasis to Yellamma, Hanuman and Khandoba temples in Maharashtra-Karnataka border areas number about 2.5 lakhs. Maximum number of these devadasis are the devotees of Yellamma of Saundathi in Belgaum district. Majority of them belong to lowest strata of the society. **
"The devadasi cult of this area is attracting the attention of journalists, dramatists and it has provided poignant material for stories and feature films. Though empirical studies and mushroom literature is available on general prostitution, no exclusive empirical studies on devadasi cult were undertaken so far. Hence an in-depth study to pin point determinants of persistence and continuity of this cult was a long felt need and probably the present effort would, to some extent, contribute substantially to the available literature on the subject." (jacket)
[Jogan Shankar is Chairman, Department of Sociology, University of Mysore.]No. 9223
Here is a book written by a hindu author in india.... maybe this will shed light on the truth speaking lingum obsessed brahamans deeds.
Now read the lines that are bold... in just one state of karnatka there are 250,000 of these religious lowlife prostitutes. Not one of them is brahman... but all lowlife hindu shoodar women. Now u can use ur smart math brain here and imagine how many religious prostitutes exist in 300 million shoodars.
[This message has been edited by mundyaa (edited August 07, 2000).]
Proved beyond any doubts that our muslim friends: Xtreme, Mundyaa, KK resorted to 'trashing' rather than 'debate'.
It is the same story again & again when cornered and with no answers they'll always resort to denigrating others' faith.
The same trio have exhibited same patterns in debate with shias, ahmedias, sikhs, ---Such losers!
yes... we are losers if we trash hindu preachers and brahmans and his deeds.
but u r not when u trash Muslim Ulema and thinkers?
strange. let me know if u want me to quote where you have put down muslim ulemas in this thread..... u hypocrite.
[This message has been edited by mundyaa (edited August 07, 2000).]
Xtreme the topic at hand is NOT Prostitutes in Hinduism, NOT Brahmins and Hinduism.
The topic at hand is “Why do people of the same culture are performing so differently when their religion has changed”
Was it their religion or the way they interpret it.
Stick to the topic!
P.S. NObody has given me the list of Great Bangladeshi or Kashmiri Muslim acheivers Yet
Xtreme and the rest,
If you can continue without your foolish p.s. comments and snide remarks, do so. Otherwise this thread gets deleted.
Not closed, deleted.
well maybe u should eat ur words and replace the subject… Islam vs hinduism, if u have changed ur mind all of a sudden.
i think the fact that these muslims left hinudism and converted to the fastest growing religion of the world… is the BEST achievement. dont u thin… they saved their women from prostituting for brahman and got rid of stone age practices like eating a dead womans ******, drinking milk with rats etc.
Andhra, the topic is still Hinduism Vs Islam. You have'nt answered or responded to my queries, does that mean, what I heard about some of the teachings of Hinduism are true ?
Faceup : lets hear your views too
Looking around in the US, I see Pakistani Professionals as few and far between. Many fellow college students from Pakistan just never made it in Professional life...for various reasons.
Tood bad!!
ZZ
so r u saying that devdasis don't exist or that hindu women are not sold as a cheap commodity to serve to the needs of a pervert brahmin?
faceup - face it, the dirt was kicked off by Andhra totally with a wrong tune. If really serious, he could have initiated a sober discussion about the faith & logic of two religions but instead he wanted to play a number game - well he's getting wat he really wanted.