Spiruality comes from within. Religion or caste, or any other names and labels do not dictate this quality. Its a personal thing. And you certainly can't argue out an inaccurate generalisation based upon bias.
Don't take other peoples ignorance so personally.
All religon good and bad. Hindu religon has good like many Gods, Veda and spirit guiding. But caste is bad because some people high some people low. But old meaning caste one now.
Same way Muslim religon aslo good and bad. Good because no caste. But bad because Sunni and shiite; Also 4 wives is bad because then woman feel bad not equaling.
Next of Indian cultural heritage is the condition of the most revered and spiritual rivers, Ganga and Jamuna.
These two rivers have become graveyard of local garbage and industrial waste. A hypocrite will immediately blame the industrialists and some of citizens or politicians.
In Europe the worker will not agree to throw the waste into the river. And in India the worker has no such sense.
What is the reason?
In India in any area from uneducated slums to educated posh, a mother asks her child to throw the home garbage in the backyard at night hrs and asks to be careful if the neighbor is not watching.
And dear Indian teen, that neighbor is doing the same. This is culture, has been continuing for centuries and the result is that India is at the verge of losing two great rivers.
Instead of talking big of Upanishads and Purina, you could better clean the road at your backyard. (Instead of waiting someone from a low caste.)
When a Phulan Devi is paraded in naked condition and no male citizen of the village comes to her rescue, it reminds me of the Druapadi attempted rape case of Maha Bharata.
Pandavs, if were really brave, must have fought and died at the spot instead of waiting for some funny 12 years for revenge.
If they could easily swallow the rape attempt of Draupadi, no doubt Phulan Devi cases are repeated at day by day score. This is the cultural heritage of Hindus.
If some girls have taken mileage in the present situation, I talk of the last woman who is being harassed, abused by her own people. Very sorry they are in millions. This is cultural heritage of Hindus.
Caste mentality is very much there. I have met a lot of progressive Hindus, but they shy to reply if asked to have marriage relation with someone from a low caste. This caste pollution is in your blood, veins, mind and heart. Just by talking big you cannot get rid of it. You need an individual revolution. Forget the old!
You cannot hide behind the Upanishads and Puranas.
And environment problem! Mr Indian Teen, may be you will say that it has nothing to do with your great culture, religion and spirituality.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fantoosh: *
Next of Indian cultural heritage is the condition of the most revered and spiritual rivers, Ganga and Jamuna.
These two rivers have become graveyard of local garbage and industrial waste. A hypocrite will immediately blame the industrialists and some of citizens or politicians.
In Europe the worker will not agree to throw the waste into the river. And in India the worker has no such sense.
What is the reason?
In India in any area from uneducated slums to educated posh, a mother asks her child to throw the home garbage in the backyard at night hrs and asks to be careful if the neighbor is not watching.
And dear Indian teen, that neighbor is doing the same. This is culture, has been continuing for centuries and the result is that India is at the verge of losing two great rivers.
Instead of talking big of Upanishads and Purina, you could better clean the road at your backyard. (Instead of waiting someone from a low caste.)
[/QUOTE]
they say river is sacred but dump all sewer in it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fantoosh: *
When a Phulan Devi is paraded in naked condition and no male citizen of the village comes to her rescue, it reminds me of the Druapadi attempted rape case of Maha Bharata.
Pandavs, if were really brave, must have fought and died at the spot instead of waiting for some funny 12 years for revenge.
If they could easily swallow the rape attempt of Draupadi, no doubt Phulan Devi cases are repeated at day by day score. This is the cultural heritage of Hindus.
If some girls have taken mileage in the present situation, I talk of the last woman who is being harassed, abused by her own people. Very sorry they are in millions. This is cultural heritage of Hindus.
Caste mentality is very much there. I have met a lot of progressive Hindus, but they shy to reply if asked to have marriage relation with someone from a low caste. This caste pollution is in your blood, veins, mind and heart. Just by talking big you cannot get rid of it. You need an individual revolution. Forget the old!
You cannot hide behind the Upanishads and Puranas.
And environment problem! Mr Indian Teen, may be you will say that it has nothing to do with your great culture, religion and spirituality.
[/QUOTE]
Despite Islam, Pakistani Muslims refer to themselves as Jats, Gujjars,
Rajputs, etc. For instance, Benazir Bhutto says in her book
'Daughter of the East', "In my veins runs the blood of a Wadhera".
Wadheras are a Rajput clan from Punjab and Sindh.
Caste also exists among Bangla-Deshi Muslims.
Indian Christians also are not free of caste. Goans and East
Indian Christains, still refer to
themselves as Bamons (Brahmins), Bhandaris, Kolis, Prabhus, etc.
The Sikhs too refer to themselves as Jat Sikhs, Mazabhi Sikhs, Ramgarhia
Sikhs. Jat Sikhs profess surnames like Oberoi, Arora, Saini, etc., that
display cate backgrounds.
very fact bangaldesh separated is due to color differences between
punjabis and bangaldeshis.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fantoosh: *
Next of Indian cultural heritage is the condition of the most revered and spiritual rivers, Ganga and Jamuna.
These two rivers have become graveyard of local garbage and industrial waste. A hypocrite will immediately blame the industrialists and some of citizens or politicians.
In Europe the worker will not agree to throw the waste into the river. And in India the worker has no such sense.
What is the reason?
[/quote]
Lack of education/information; And this is true for all of Indian subcontinent. I am glad that you are trying to come up with some valid points. But FYI there are equally good number of oranizations working for purification of rivers throughout India.
[quote]
In India in any area from uneducated slums to educated posh, a mother asks her child to throw the home garbage in the backyard at night hrs and asks to be careful if the neighbor is not watching.
And dear Indian teen, that neighbor is doing the same. This is culture, has been continuing for centuries and the result is that India is at the verge of losing two great rivers.
Instead of talking big of Upanishads and Purina, you could better clean the road at your backyard. (Instead of waiting someone from a low caste.)
[/QUOTE]
And what your mother says ?? This is desi ( read lazy) mentality, true again for all of Indian subcontinent; not for India only. And also partially it can be attributed to lack of proper system. There was not any proper trash-management system in India. But now they are trying to come up with one and results are reflecting in cleaner neighborhoods.
It has nothing to do with caste system; if you wait for someone to clean your trash , you wont even through it in backyards.
I hope this makes sense to you.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fantoosh: *
When a Phulan Devi is paraded in naked condition and no male citizen of the village comes to her rescue, it reminds me of the Druapadi attempted rape case of Maha Bharata.
Pandavs, if were really brave, must have fought and died at the spot instead of waiting for some funny 12 years for revenge.
If they could easily swallow the rape attempt of Draupadi, no doubt Phulan Devi cases are repeated at day by day score. This is the cultural heritage of Hindus.
[/quote]
Again I am happy that you are coming up with something to talk about; not repeating the same thing again and over again. But my friend unfortunately you are pointing to one example and trying to generalize. What if I quote the mianwali mass rape case in pakistan. How would you justify that ?? Such evils are present everywhere and all civilised people abhore any such thing, be it in India or for that matter korea or pakistan.
[quote]
Caste mentality is very much there. I have met a lot of progressive Hindus, but they shy to reply if asked to have marriage relation with someone from a low caste. This caste pollution is in your blood, veins, mind and heart. Just by talking big you cannot get rid of it. You need an individual revolution. Forget the old!
You cannot hide behind the Upanishads and Puranas.
And environment problem! Mr Indian Teen, may be you will say that it has nothing to do with your great culture, religion and spirituality.
[/QUOTE]
Hell no . I have seen may couples with inter-caste or inter-religion marriages. ANd if you talk about conservative people , then even in US I have seen southerners sincerely suggesting their daughters to marry southerners only and sheikhs marrying sheikhs and syeds marrying syeds only. And You can not relate it to any particular religion.
Finally I would again suggest you to not to use words like "hypocrytes". It's not in tandem with an open/honest attempt to debate.
I would be glad if you could come up with some more sensible points you want to discuss.
Peace and Love!
I do not generalize the Phulan Devi case. This case got popularity because this lady could revenge, otherwise such cases are very common in many villages and at many local police stations every day.
I can name it a ‘Draupadi incident culture and spirituality’.
I am not generalizing anything at all. I have talked whatever is very common all over India. Weather it concerns respecting the women, pollution or cast problem…Indians are alike all over India.
Two or three progressive incidents make no sense.
Mr Indian Teen, first you have to understand what hypocrisy means, after you may object to it.
Indians are a society who has never accepted the truth and has always find escaping doors, while blaming others for all declines.
I agree to you that what I have written is actually generalized for all Indian subcontinents, but we are discussing Hindu culture, consisting 80% of Indian population, we have to talk of Hindus and India in general.
And next time Mr Indian Teen, do offer a seat to a woman in a public transport! I assure you, she will like it.
Next is the general hypocrisy of representatives of five thousand years old culture, religion and spirituality.
India is the only country in the world remained under foreign rule for eight hundred years.
Indian history blames Jai Chand for inviting Gory to attack India.
Prithvi Raj Chauhan had kidnapped and raped minor aged daughter of Jai Chand. (They were cousins.)
Indian history has all praises for Prithvi Raj Chauhan.
At the peak hrs of Indian Freedom struggle, that is in 1945-47, the British were not more than 5000 controlling the great country of 45 crorers.
Just imagine that only four or five thousand Europeans controlled millions of Indians without any problem for two hundred years.
I do not know what is there to be proud of in Indian history.
Infighting is a culture of India. If there is not one Sonia Gandhi, the all Congressmen will engage in infighting. So for safe guarding their daily bread, they are bound to make Sonia your next PM.
And do not say that politicians have destroyed this great nation!
Pls go to any court and you will find a reality. (Off course, if you wish to face the truth.)
I reveal you a secrete. In the big ques in courts, the first number is occupied by real brothers against each other for property quarrels, then relatives, at third position is neighbors for boundary quarrels, and the at fourth are friends, who somehow had started a common business. No need to say that courts are so overcrowded that the judiciary system has near about collapsed.
So, dear Mr Indian Teen, if you wish to progress, you have to revolt. And for that first you have to accept the depth of the garbage you have fallen into, feel the smell and only then there is a chance.
Upnishad or Puranas will not help you.
May be next time we will chat in Italian!
(PS. Do not take anything personal! We are talking India in general.)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fantoosh: *
Next is the general hypocrisy of representatives of five thousand years old culture, religion and spirituality.
India is the only country in the world remained under foreign rule for eight hundred years.
Indian history blames Jai Chand for inviting Gory to attack India.
Prithvi Raj Chauhan had kidnapped and raped minor aged daughter of Jai Chand. (They were cousins.)
Indian history has all praises for Prithvi Raj Chauhan.
At the peak hrs of Indian Freedom struggle, that is in 1945-47, the British were not more than 5000 controlling the great country of 45 crorers.
Just imagine that only four or five thousand Europeans controlled millions of Indians without any problem for two hundred years.
I do not know what is there to be proud of in Indian history.
Infighting is a culture of India. If there is not one Sonia Gandhi, the all Congressmen will engage in infighting. So for safe guarding their daily bread, they are bound to make Sonia your next PM.
And do not say that politicians have destroyed this great nation!
Pls go to any court and you will find a reality. (Off course, if you wish to face the truth.)
I reveal you a secrete. In the big ques in courts, the first number is occupied by real brothers against each other for property quarrels, then relatives, at third position is neighbors for boundary quarrels, and the at fourth are friends, who somehow had started a common business. No need to say that courts are so overcrowded that the judiciary system has near about collapsed.
So, dear Mr Indian Teen, if you wish to progress, you have to revolt. And for that first you have to accept the depth of the garbage you have fallen into, feel the smell and only then there is a chance.
Upnishad or Puranas will not help you.
May be next time we will chat in Italian!
(PS. Do not take anything personal! We are talking India in general.)
[/QUOTE]
so pakistan is 700 years ahead of us after you changed your religen?
and bangaldesh is so different from west bengal.
One person critcise Hindu culture. you donno is ok. dont like is ok. but hating bad. because after learning about Hindu then talk.
for exsample - about Draupathi - Mahabharath clear it was to make fun and insult Pandva - not to rape...where you read rape because that lying. So only Pandva decide "ok we take revenging". Read proper first.
many such mistakes you have in writing about India. Only one thing you remember. culture culture what your culture is? Is also same as India. because before some years oly no Pakistan...all India. So all old people and father mother of old people all same culture !
your are trying to opine , what is deeply engraved inside your mind. I do not understand , how can you relate these two things. They are as dissimilar as an elephant and a tomato !
How about if I relate ( though I dnt wish to , but you are forcing me ) Prophet muhammad ( be peace upon him)marrying 9 years young Aisha at old age to the Arabian sheikhs marrying minors. I know it would be grossly unjust and its kinda real bad attempt to malign and misinterpret the history and relate it to any random thing. I hope I convey my point , what you tried to do here.
How many times have you visited India ??
Well I understand very well hypocrys and thats why I advised you to not user such kind of words. It should not be used to block doors of honest debate and try to fill in for insecured logic and vague ideas based on ill-informations.
good that you understand :k:
What are you talking about … who told you that women are not given seat in buses in India. You amaze me by your ignorant comments. In fact a few seats are reserved for women and even if the bus is full one has to leave the women seat, if some woman embarks the bus. Get your facts right before giving such kind of ignorant examples!
Peace!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fantoosh: *
Next is the general hypocrisy of representatives of five thousand years old culture, religion and spirituality.
India is the only country in the world remained under foreign rule for eight hundred years.
[/quote]
So you mean muslims are foreigners in India ??? Read history and you would find every culture has invasions, but finally invadors got assimilated in the original culture and originated a new culture ( that is a mix of both old and new). And that is what we see in India. Partially, fading of glory of ancient Indian civilization can be attributed to invasions, but it has brought a few good things as well.
[quote]
Indian history blames Jai Chand for inviting Gory to attack India.
Prithvi Raj Chauhan had kidnapped and raped minor aged daughter of Jai Chand. (They were cousins.)
Indian history has all praises for Prithvi Raj Chauhan.
[/quote]
You know what this is called. It's a common psychological syndrome of seeing the things the way they suit best to your needs. Sanyogita was Prithvi Raj Chauhan's wife and he did not need to rape her. And regarding her fleeing away with Chauhan, I guess you would have seen many such love affairs in our modern society. Where boy and girl flee away from their parents and marry.
You do not need to distort history and present it in such a frivolous way!
[quote]
At the peak hrs of Indian Freedom struggle, that is in 1945-47, the British were not more than 5000 controlling the great country of 45 crorers.
Just imagine that only four or five thousand Europeans controlled millions of Indians without any problem for two hundred years.
I do not know what is there to be proud of in Indian history.
[/quote]
I hope you mean India as undivided India , where pakistan was a part of India.
[quote]
Infighting is a culture of India. If there is not one Sonia Gandhi, the all Congressmen will engage in infighting. So for safe guarding their daily bread, they are bound to make Sonia your next PM.
And do not say that politicians have destroyed this great nation!
Pls go to any court and you will find a reality. (Off course, if you wish to face the truth.)
I reveal you a secrete. In the big ques in courts, the first number is occupied by real brothers against each other for property quarrels, then relatives, at third position is neighbors for boundary quarrels, and the at fourth are friends, who somehow had started a common business. No need to say that courts are so overcrowded that the judiciary system has near about collapsed.
[/quote]
What current political system has to do with history of Hinduism/Indian values?? Yeah , India has one of most corrupt governing systems. But so has pakistan ( even worse , see the report on corruption ) and Bangladesh. Remember we are talking about spirituality in Hinduism.
How about relating state of democracy in Pakistan with Taxila ???
[quote]
(PS. Do not take anything personal! We are talking India in general.)
[/QUOTE]
No question of taking anything personal. I would be a happy man, if I could put forward the points you have never been taught about / never read about. And make you think more rationaly about India and Indian values. As you too share the common heritage!
Peace and Love!
Phula Devi case and Draupadi case…. in both the cases no man came forward for rescuing the woman. This is the similarity. This is Indian culture.
Do you really not notice any rape cases, humiliation of women, cast degradation and do you never read third to fifth page of any newspaper? Thanks to media that some of such cases are now getting exposure, otherwise…. Do you never know that brothers, relatives and friends are fighting against each other in courts…an infighting cultural phenomenon? OK, I do not use the word ‘hypocrisy’, since it irritates you.
Why all the time you want to bring in Islam, while egoistically talking of the great Hindu culture? Do you want to say that Muslims are bad and hence Hindus have a right to be bad?
I do not know if Pak Muslims or Indian Muslims are away from all India hypocrisy mentality? They are also a part of your five thousand years old culture and spirituality.
Cultural and spiritual garbage is just like an old blanket. It may not leave you even if you want.
If your ancestors did not respect their women, it is difficult for you to understand what respect means, unless you are ready for a personal revolt.
‘A reserved seat for women’ in public transport is a need in India, not in any other country apart from this subcontinent. Shall I tell you why?
Do you feel shame that only four or five thousands of Europeans controlled your great country of millions for two hundred years?
If not, then you must be proud of Sonia for leading you in future.
Sanyogita loved Prithviraj, is written in Raso.
Sanyogita, a minor loved his uncle Prithvi Raj, fifty plus of age, (this is not exposed in Raso), and you believe that it was love?
Anyhow, India paid a very heavy price for Prithvi Raj’ lust.
Next is sexual harassment.
I am not talking of sexual harassment among boys and girls.
I want to talk a little of sexual harassment in families…. how daughters have become victims of father’ lust, or sisters are mishandled by brothers and cousins.
Such cases are exposed very little and very rare, though they are very common in most of families in this great country of five thousand year old heritage. (Long back ‘India Today’ made some exposure and a mess was created.)
This is a country (subcontinent) where majority are believers and are always ready to lecture others (of Indian values).
Mr Indian Teen, Please take some rest and opine a little what culture you represent!
fantoosh, give it a rest man. You are comparing Mahabharata as the indication of the complexity of the Indian culture?
Let's not get into minors marrying older people. Religions can take a lot of flack for things like paedophilia. From Prophets to leaders in the olden days irregardless of whether they were in China or India or Mecca married kids.
What makes you say that hindu ancestors or people today did not respect women? If anything it is the opposite. Hinduism proposes woem as god. The female deity is part of the supreme divine. No other religion no matter how old or new proposes that.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fantoosh: *
India paid a very heavy price for Prithvi Raj’ lust.
[/QUOTE]
Fantoosh, Thank PrithviRaj and Sanyogita for what you are today, They gave you and your ancestors your new religion ISLAM. If not for those two you would still be a shivlangum hugging Kaafir Hindu.
you have started blabbering same things again! Didn’t we already talk about relation of history and present status. And conclusion was that you can not even remotely associate these two things.
Make up your mind. What you wanna talk about. It was not me who digressed from the orignial topic , but I was obliged to answer your frivolous allegations originated from ill-information.
yeah please go ahead and tell me why and also be kind to tell me the status of same in your country and culture (?)
As I said earlier , that included your ancestors too. So what’s your point?
India is bad , pakistan is bad , Islam is bad and hiduism is also bad???
Make up your mind , thats an indication of identity crisis!
So now your story has taken a turn. In last post you said, he raped sanyogita and he was her cousin. Now he turns out to be her uncle 
Make up your mind buddy.
For your consumption go through the story -
Prithviraj Chauhan
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fantoosh: *
Next is sexual harassment.
I am not talking of sexual harassment among boys and girls.
I want to talk a little of sexual harassment in families…. how daughters have become victims of father’ lust, or sisters are mishandled by brothers and cousins.
[/quote]
Wow and how is this related to hinduism , even if we believe your imagination???
Brother India has minimal share of such crimes. Think about Europe/ Americas and even about your own country. But I do not blame it to any religion. It's all about westernization.
[quote]
Such cases are exposed very little and very rare, though they are very common in most of families in this great country of five thousand year old heritage. (Long back ‘India Today’ made some exposure and a mess was created.)
This is a country (subcontinent) where majority are believers and are always ready to lecture others (of Indian values).
Mr Indian Teen, Please take some rest and opine a little what culture you represent!
[/QUOTE]
You would not find such a sacred relation between brothers and sisters.Where even distant cousin is regarded as sister. Hope you have heard about rakhi and famous story of Huymayun and his "rakhi" sister.
That's the kind of culture we have. Hope it makes sense to you.
And I am pretty confident about what I am opining. As I can back it up with rational reasons and real examples , not made up ones.
Peace and Love!