Hinduism and caste...

Well im just interested in the idea of the untouchables…and the caste system…
Is it genuine Hindu belief to place certain castes over others in such a blatant manner…
As in is it culture or religion in regards to how untouchables are treated…as in not getting jobs…being raped amongst other abuses etc…
This isnt an attack…i just happened to come across a dalit site and they bring up many references from hindu scriptures to outline the caste system and its abuses…

Now naturally there is always two sides to the story…so can any Hindus shed any light?..becuase the way it comes across is that the caste system isnt just something for marriage etc…but actually justifies social exclusion for certain castes…

So is this culture or religion in India?..

Re: Hinduism and caste...

Though I am a Muslim. But I would like to comment here. We also have the caste system in Pakistan. We have our Untouchables. They rule us. They dont want us to Touch them. I mean people belonging to their own caste ( the elite ) can touch them , but others ( the lower class - almost 70% of our nation ) are not allowed to come even near them.

Re: Hinduism and caste...

Shadan, who are these groups? I've never heard of them.

Re: Hinduism and caste...

^^

He's talking about the bureaucrats...The ruling elite...

Nothing to do with religion...

Re: Hinduism and caste...

There is ample justification in the Gita alone to maintain caste divisions & oppressions; here are Lord Krsna's words

"It is far better to perform one's svadharma (prescribed duties), even though faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous."

Bhagavad-Gita 3:35.

"According to the three modes of material nature (goodness, passion, ignorance) and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society (Brahmin/Ksatriya/Vaisya/Sudra) are created by Me. And although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable." Bhagavad-Gita 4:13.

Re: Hinduism and caste...

Here are the names of the four castes in Hinduism

Caste also known as varna:
Brahmin = Priest Caste;
Ksatriya = Rajanya/Ruler/Warrior Caste;
Vaisya = Commoner Caste;
Sudra = Servant/Slave Caste; and
Avarna = Outcaste/Untouchable/Dalit/Candala/Dog-eater.

Re: Hinduism and caste...

Nice job Lahore 981.

I really wonder what happened that 600 years of Muslim rule failed to convert the suppressed of Hindu society. Where did Islam go wrong? It succesfully converted the whole Arabia, Central Asia but majority of Dalits and untouchables of Indian subcontinent rejected the idea and remained in the mainstream of Hindu structure?

Re: Hinduism and caste...

An inciting view from Gandhi the father (Bapu) of the nation as viewed in his quote.

Dear Oprah,

I am writing this letter because I think of you as an enlightened person. This letter is about the statements you made during the show you dedicated to the memory of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King.

In one of your statement you said something like "I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King’s sacrifice." Oprah, what about those countless unknown and unsung heroes, who preceded Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King. They too suffered hardships and sacrificed their lives for freedom and justice for the black people. As a matter of fact, black people revolted against slavery and started struggling for freedom the moment they were captured in Africa and the chains of slavery were put around their necks. Since that moment black people have expressed their suffering, sorrow, helplessness and burning desire for freedom and justice through their songs. That is the reason why black people have contributed so much for the creation and development of new music.

The mentality or thinking, which was responsible for slavery, made it sure that the history of slavery and their struggle for freedom and justice is not known to the world. And if this story has to be told, then it must be told the way that "mentality" wants it to be told. There are people even today; who think that slavery was benign and slaves were happy and contented with their situation. These people also justify colonial rule by saying, "It was necessary to civilize the uncivilized." On the contrary, it is our conviction that a civilized man doesn’t deny another man’s humanity. He doesn’t enslave another man or subjugates another man in any form or manner- politically, economically, socially and religiously.

Deliberate efforts have been made to blot out the history of slavery and black peoples’ struggle for freedom and their contribution to human society in all walks of life. For instance, you go to any major city in the USA, you find all sorts of museums, but you don’t find the one about slavery. The US Congress was very enthusiastic about Jewish holocaust museum in Washington D. C. However, the same Congress has been unwilling so far to establish a museum about slavery. Moreover, what about a holocaust museum of native Americans, the Indians? Whereas Jewish holocaust took place in Europe, the slavery of blacks and the genocide of the native people took place in the USA. I leave up to you to draw your own conclusion. However, I believe that it takes moral courage to look into the eyes of evil, not just empty moral rhetoric.

The emergence of Independent Africa had a major positive impact on the "black civil rights movement" in the United States and the anti apartheid movement in South Africa. It boosted the morale of these movements and brought worldwide recognition to Dr. Martin Luther King and Mr. Nelson Mandela. That’s why, who knows how many "great men" were lynched in the United States and how many were tortured to death in solitary cells in South Africa before Dr. Martin Luther King and Mr. Nelson Mandela, respectively.

During that show, you compared Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King with Mahatma Gandhi. I think your information about Mahatma Gandhi is probably based on the writings of European and Hindu "myth makers" (historians). Had you known the truth about Mahatma Gandhi, you wouldn’t have said that Dr. Martin Luther King was following the policy of the great Mahatma Gandhi. I think it is disgraceful to compare Dr. Martin Luther King with Mahatma Gandhi. For example, whereas Dr. King represented the aspirations of all the black people, Mahatma Gandhi represented the interest of only high caste Hindus who constituted 10-12% of the Indian population. Whereas Dr. King appealed to all Americans to rise above their prejudices of race, religion and gender to form a just society, Mahatma Gandhi was the mastermind behind the partition of India into two nations, one Hindu and the other Muslim. Here are some of the facts about Mahatma Gandhi.

Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi was born in the state of Gujrat in Baniya caste whose occupation is business. After obtaining a law degree from England he returned to India. However, after a short stay he decided to move to South Africa where he thought he could make more money. A large number of Indians from Gujrat State were brought to South Africa as indentured servants. Being a caste conscious Hindu, he looked down upon the natives. He used to say; "I can see why a white man discriminates against an African, but why against us. We Indians have the same values, the white man has." Besides, his law practice, he worked for the British army recruiting Indians during the Boer War and the Zulu rebellion. He was the commander of an ambulance corps made up of Indians.

The Bolshevik revolution of 1914 in Russia inspired worldwide nationalist movements against colonialism and dictatorships. To sabotage Indian national movement, the British colonists brought Gandhi to India. What the "myth makers" don’t tell is that the Indian National Congress Party, which was later on controlled by Gandhi was set up under the patronage of the British Government and it was dominated by high caste Hindus, who constituted only 10-12% of the Indian population. Anybody who was considered a threat to the interest of the British or high caste Hindus was thrown out of the party. The high caste Hindus, who had control over the Indian economy, also wanted to usurp political power after the departure of the British. But there was one formidable obstacle in their path to achieve this objective. And that obstacle was the Muslim majority states of Punjab, Bengal, Sindh, Blouchistan and Northwest Frontier. To exclude these Muslim dominant states from the Indian union, the Hindu leaders of Congress Party headed by Gandhi started making provocative statements to instill doubt and fear in the minds of Muslim population that their future in independent India under the control of Hindu majority was not safe. So the Muslim leaders started asking for constitutional guarantees to safeguard their future, which the Hindu leaders were not willing to provide. Frustrated Muslim leaders asked for partition of the country to create a Muslim state. The Muslim leaders did not see the trap that the "high caste Hindus" have laid for them. They fell into that trap without realizing the impact their demand would have on the future generations of people of the Indian subcontinent. The stage was set for the partition of India into Muslim Pakistan and Hindu India. Gandhi and his associates congratulated each other for accomplishing their objective while holding Muslims responsible for the partition of the country. This is the legacy of Mahatma Gandhi for which future generations of Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis would pay dearly, God knows far how long!

The cruel and deceitful nature of Gandhi was revealed when he counseled Hindu and Sikh refugees, who came to see him in April 1947, after they were driven out of their homes following a terrible massacre of Hindus and Sikhs in the Ravalpindi area of Punjab. Gandhi asked them to go back to their homes, as he exhorted them that he wouldn’t accept the partition of the country. He kept repeating like a parrot, "I won’t allow the partition of the country. The country would be partitioned only over his dead body." You can imagine the level of his depravity, because his Congress Party had already accepted with his blessing the partition of the country as a condition for Independence. And a few months later on August 15,1947, the Indian union was divided, in two nations, one Muslim and the other Hindu.

** The claim that Gandhi won freedom for India peacefully without shedding a drop of blood is the biggest fabricated lie of the 20th century.**

Up to the start of World War II, the British government categorically rejected the demand for the independence of India in the immediate future. However, the situation changed dramatically after the war. The war was so devastating to the British power that the government found it impossible to build the infra structure and economy of the homeland while coping with the growing national liberation movements in the colonies. The British government wisely decided to grant freedom to the colonies. So it wasn’t Gandhi’s movement which drove the British out of India, it was the impact of second world war, which made it impossible for the British to hold on to their Empire. Shortly after the independence of India, other colonies in Asia, Africa and Caribbean gained their independence peacefully. So what is so unique about India’s independence? Had there been no World War II, India would still be a British colony!

The other story that the "myth makers" do not tell is that the Independence of India was marked by one of the greatest upheavals of the 20th century. Two Indian states, Punjab and Bengal were partitioned at the time of independence causing untold suffering and loss of life and property. In Punjab all most all the Hindu and Sikh population of about five millions were forced to leave their homes and properties on the Pakistan side where their ancestors had lived for hundreds of years. Similarly, about five million Muslims were forced to vacate their home and properties on the Indian side. In the ensuing communal frenzy and carnage, may be as many as one million people perished and thousands of women were kidnapped and raped. All most one third of the population of Punjab was engulfed in the inferno created by the independence of India. Of the total population of about five and half million Sikhs, about 40% were rendered homeless due to Independence. The population of Bengal was much higher than that of Punjab and you can imagine the human suffering there! The claim that Gandhi won freedom for India peacefully is a cruel joke on Punjabis and Bengalis.

To my knowledge, only in two places, the United States of America and Ireland, the force of arms drove out the British colonists. Everywhere else the British freed the colonies peacefully. So on what ground it is claimed that Gandhi won freedom for India peacefully without shedding a drop of blood.

** The claim that Gandhi worked for the uplift of Dalits (untouchables) is also a myth.
**
*Gandhi was a Hindu revivalist, who upheld every aspect of Hinduism including the caste system, which is the essence of Hinduism. His writings, speeches and statements confirm this.
*

*I don’t believe the caste system to be an odious and vicious dogma. It has its limitations and defects, but there is nothing sinful about it.
*

Harijan, 1933.

*I believe in Varnashrama (caste system) which is the law of life. The law of Varna (color and / or caste) is nothing but the law of conservation of energy. Why should my son not be scavenger if I am one?
*

Harijan, 3-6-1947.

He (Shudra, low caste) may not be called a Brahmin (uppermost caste), though he (Shudra) may have all the qualities of a Brahmin in this birth. And it is a good thing for him (Shudra) not to arrogate a Varna (caste) to which he is not born. It is a sign of true humility.

Young India, 11-24-1927.

** According to Hindu belief, he who practices a profession which does not belong to him by birth, does violence to himself and becomes a degraded being by not living up to the Varna (caste) of his birth.**

Young India, 11-14-1927.

** As years go by, the conviction is daily growing upon me that Varna (caste) is the law of man’s being, and therefore, caste is necessary for Christians and Muslims as it has been necessary for Hinduism, and has been its saving grace.**

Speech at Trivandrum, (Collection of Speeches), Ramanath Suman (1932).

** I would resist with my life the separation of "Untouchables" from the caste Hindus. The problem of the "Untouchable" community was of comparatively little importance.
**
London Round Table Conference 1931.

** I call myself a Snatana man, one who firmly believes in the caste system.
**
Dharma Manthan, p 4.

** I believe in caste division determined by birth and the very root of caste division lies in birth.
**
Varna Vyavastha, p 76-77.

** The four castes and the four stages of life are things to be attained by birth alone.
**
Dharma Manthan, p 5.

Caste means the predetermination of a man’s profession. Caste implies that a man must practice only the profession of his ancestors for his livelihood.

Varna Vyavstha, p 28, 56, 68.

** Shudra only serves the higher castes as a matter of religious duty and who will never own any property. The gods will shower down flowers on him.**

Varna Vyavastha, p 15.

** I have noticed that the very basis of our thought have been severely shaken by Western civilization which is the creation of the Satan.**

Dharma Manthan, p 65.

** How is it possible that the Antyaja (outcastes) should have the right to enter all the existing temples? As long as the law of caste and karma has the chief place in the Hindu religion, to say that every Hindu can enter every temple is a thing that is not possible today.**

Gandhi Sikshan, Vol. 11, p 132.

** There are I am sorry to say, many Hindu temples in our midst in this country, which are no better than brothels.**

** The caste system can’t be said to be bad because it does not allow inter-dining and inter-marriages in different castes.**

Gandhi by Shiru, p129.

** If the Shudar (low caste) leave their ancestral profession and take up others, ambition will rouse in them and their peace of mind will be spoiled. Even their family peace will be disturbed.**

Hind Swaraj.

** The superiority of caste and race is deeply imbedded in the psyche of upper caste Hindus irrespective of their upbringing or the level of education or the place where they live. For example:

In the words of a socialist leader, Madhu Limaye, "Nehru practiced both racism and casteism, despite his modern upbringing and outlook."**

Telegraph, Calcutta, November 21, 1987.

** In a revealing passage about his "making", Nehru wrote, "Behind me lie somewhere in the sub-conscience, racial memories of hundred or whatever the numbers may be, generations of Brahmins. I cannot get rid of that past inheritance."**

Jawaharlal Nehru, An Autobiography, (1936), Delhi, 1980, p 596.

Sir V. S. Naipaul is a Nobel laureate in literature. His Brahmin ancestors were brought as indentured servants to Trinidad long time ago. He grew up in Trinidad and has spent most of his life in England. In his earlier work "An Area of Darkness, 1964" he was unforgiving of India. However, later on the "Brahmin" in him stirred up and came out spewing hatred and venom. He condoned the massacre of thousands of Sikhs in June 1984, when Indra Gandhi ordered a military attack on the Golden Temple complex the very day when thousands of Sikh pilgrims had gathered there to celebrate the martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev (A Million Mutinies Now, 1990). In 1992 he justified the destruction of a 400 hundred year old mosque (Babri Masjid) by Hindu mobs lead by Bhartiya Janta Party (a fascist Hindu party) because of the mistreatment of Hindus by Muslim rulers centuries back in the past. He has become the darling of Hindu fascist organizations.

Mahatma Gandhi, whose Baniya (Vaisha) caste is two steps lower than the uppermost Brahmin caste, was a vigorous defender of the caste system.

** The caste system, in my opinion, has a scientific basis. Reason does not revolt against it. It has disadvantages. ………Caste creates a social and moral restraint……I can find no reason for their (castes) abolition. To abolish caste is to demolish Hinduism. There is nothing to fight against the Varnasharma (caste system). I don’t believe the caste system to be an odious and vicious dogma. It has its limitations and defects, but there is nothing sinful about it.
**
Harijan, 1933.

** Gandhi’s calling "Untouchables", as Harijans is a cruel joke on the "Untouchables’ by an insensitive and depraved man.

Harijan literally means "child of God". However, in India this label is used for the illegitimate children of temple girls (anchoress) fathered by priests** . Dr. B. R. Ambedkar, the leader of the Untouchables vehemently opposed Gandhi’s use of Harijans for untouchables. Recently, Ms Mayawati, a leader of the Untouchables asked rhetorically, "If we are Harijans then what are the upper castes like Nehru, Gandhi and Patel? Are they *******s?"

** That Gandhi was an "apostle of peace" is not true.**

Gandhi was a "Hindu revivalist" and "Hindu politician" combined in one, who used nonviolence as a tool for political objectives. He used to coerce others to concede to his demands by threats of "going to fast unto death". He was no pacifist as is shown by his stand on the issue of Kashmir.

** "One naturally thought that he would offer a nonviolent solution to the Kashmir issue and raise his moral stature. But no! He proved to be a false prophet. Seervai has documented that nonviolence with him was a political weapon. **(H. M. Seervai, Partition of India, Legend and Reality, Bombay, 1989, p 172-173). He sanctioned the use of armed forces and laid the foundation of Kashmir problem which continues to haunt the subcontinent till today."

Sangat Singh, The Sikhs in History, 4th ed., 2001, p 258.

According to Seervai, in a meeting with Viceroy, Lord Wavell on August 27 1946, Gandhi thumped the table and said, "If India wants bloodbath, she shall have it and that if bloodbath was necessary, it would come about in spite of nonviolence." Wavell was dumbfounded at these words coming from the mouth of "apostle" of nonviolence.

Gandhi was a very cunning man. He was not satisfied with the title of "apostle of peace", he also wanted to project himself as a holy man, which for a Hindu required the practice of celibacy. He was a married man and proclaimed to be celibate at a relatively young age under forty. However, **he used to test his celibacy by asking young girls to lie over him to find out whether he was in full control of his sexual feelings. **I leave up to psychologists and psychiatrists to analyze what was in Gandhi’s mind and what happened to the emotions of those poor girls! He was always surrounded by women.

So what is Gandhi’s legacy to mankind? The obvious one is the partition of subcontinent into "Hindu India" and Muslim "Pakistan and Bangladesh". These three nations are a "living hell" for minorities. For example, India which claims with pride to be the biggest democracy in the world has killed more Indians in the last fifty years than the British colonists killed in 300 hundred years. More than 95% of those killed by Hindu governments are Christians, Muslims, Sikhs and Dalits (Untouchables). While the populations of these countries are groaning under the weight of poverty, hunger, illiteracy, ignorance and disease, India and Pakistan have built nuclear weapons. The next nuclear war will most probably be fought over the disputed territory of Kashmir in spite of the fact that neither India nor Pakistan has ever asked the Kashmiris what they want.

That Hindus are peace loving and coexist peacefully with non-Hindus is also not true.

** When Talban destroyed Lord Buddha’s statue in Afghanistan, there were worldwide protests against this heinous crime against humanity. The most vociferous demonstrations and protests were held in India. However, how little did the Hindu mobs realize that the first damage to the statue was done by Hindu rulers of Afghanistan during the frenzy of Hindu revival? **Buddhism flourished as a major religion in India for several centuries. Large number of Buddhists fled to neighboring countries. Those who resisted were killed, Buddhist monasteries were destroyed, monks were murdered, and nuns were raped. Buddhist literature was burnt and their religious centers were converted into Hindu centers. The famous place in Bihar State where Lord Buddha is supposed to have received his light (knowledge) is still under the control of Hindus in spite of the protests of international Bhuddist community.

The "myth makers" keep repeating that Hindus have lived peacefully with Muslims, Christians and others for hundreds of years. What they don’t tell you is that during that period Muslims or the British ruled over the Indian Territory. But look at the attitude of Hindus towards non-Hindus when Hindus were the rulers? During the revival of Hinduism they eradicated Buddhism from the land of its birth. All other progressive movements, which opposed the caste system were either crushed or subverted. Immediately after independence in 1947, the so-called secular and liberal Hindu rulers lead by Jawahar Lal Nehru adopted an Indian Constitution, declaring "Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains" as Hindus with the stroke of a pen. The Sikhs have been protesting against this heinous crime ever since. No Hindu leader worth the name has ever protested against this abominable injustice to the minorities. Imagine! How would the minorities react if the US Congress were to pass a law declaring all minorities to be Christians?
**
The word Hindu is not found in any Hindu religious text or any other ancient writing. People who lived on the western side of Hindu Kush (killers of Hindus) mountains gave this name to the natives of India. The word Hindu means black, slave, robber, thief and a waylayer.**

From my discussions with Americans about the caste system over the years, I have the impression that most of them think that caste system is like segregation or apartheid. Caste system may look like segregation or apartheid on the surface, but if one were to scratch the surface one would find that the Brahmnical caste system is the worst oppressive and exploitative system that exists on planet earth. Slavery and segregation in America and apartheid in South Africa have ended in a relatively short period, but the heinous caste system, which has been practiced in India for thousands of years, is still going strong. It is because the caste system was invented, taught, practiced and ordained by the Brahmnical (Hindu) religion. Under segregation and apartheid the black people were denied their rights and had very few opportunities for advancement in comparison to white people. However, a black person under those circumstances could become a doctor, a teacher, and a minister or choose whatever occupation was available to them. Whereas the caste is stamped on you the moment you are born. There was no escape from this watertight multistory building with no stairs or ladder. You are born and dead in the same caste, no matter how good or bad a person you are. For example, a person born in a scavenger’s family would also be a scavenger in spite of his great intelligence. He couldn’t choose any other occupation. So a scavenger’s descendents remained scavengers for thousands of years. This destroyed the creativity of the Indian population. No wonder the Hindu civilization, which is as old as the Chinese civilization has made insignificant contribution to the development of human society in comparison to the Chinese civilization.

It is a mistake to think that Nazism was the product of Hitler’s sick mind. The roots of Nazism lie in the Hindu caste system. European colonists were intrigued by the Hindu caste system. They were astonished how Brahmins who formed about 5% of India’s population were able to exploit the rest of Indians for thousands of years by asserting their caste and racial superiority. The British used the same Brahmnical strategy, they proclaimed their racial and intellectual superiority over Indians to control their vast Empire in India. At the pinnacle of British rule, there were only about 200,000 British personnel in India. Who you think managed the Empire? They were the brown-Englishmen (subjugated Indians) who managed the Empire.

** European writers like Max Muler were also fascinated by the Hindu caste system. **They admired the way the Brahmins maintained his caste and racial superiority over thousands of years. Why shouldn’t the Europeans assert their racial and intellectual superiority the same way over black, brown, tan and yellow people? So people like Max Muler planted the seeds of racial superiority on he European soil. Others like him nurtured the seedlings and plants came into full blossom under Hitler. It is no coincidence that the Nazis used swastika, a propitious Brahmin symbol as the emblem of the Nazi party.

I am willing to debate these issues with any one, anywhere and on any stage.

With deep regards.

Baldev Singh, Ph.D.

316 R Glad Way

Collegeville, PA 19426.

(610) 454-1079

(An article "Gandhi as a Racist" by Dr. Velu Anamlai (USA) published in Sikh Virsa, June 1997, was consulted for writing this letter.)

Re: Hinduism and caste…

Lets not divert our focus from the topic by such statements. Thank you :slight_smile:

Re: Hinduism and caste…

Why not…there is nothing in Hindu religion binding anyone to stick to it.

Deedawa…once again you are here without a valid web link…but it is not important. Many things are written about Gandhi quoting or interpreting his quotes in different directions.

Do you believe anything written in favor of or against the Prophet Muhammad?
In that case you are selective.

Re: Hinduism and caste…

This is not caste system even the so called developed countries have this it is between the haves(elite) and the have not(common man).It is in all the countries difference between rich and powerful.But in India the hindus have strong caste system which is based on religion.

Re: Hinduism and caste…

Islam doesnot believe in converting someone with force we dont use force against anyone.we fight only where there is oppresion and muslims are being suppresed for example kashmir palestine etc.

Majority of those who converted to islam were converted by the sufi saints who were against any violence even hindus and sikhs admire them because there message was of peace so you dont know anything about history.

The hindu society lived happily under the muslim rule and they were not suppresed thats why in India there are about 800 million hindus and not all of india is muslim just like spain where the muslims ruled for many centuries but after the christain crusade you would hardly find a muslim in spain because most of them were killed or force to flee their homes.

I think you just post on every topic without knowing about it have you ever heard of coptic christains maronites of lebanon and orthodox churches of central asia>i think you will search this on net and will again post something idiotic so please read history books as well they will surely help you.

Re: Hinduism and caste...

ummm, if they failed then all these muslimz living in Pakistan, Bagladesh, India shudnt be singing RAM MIYA yet ? and if they FAILED then are those people who believe a monkey walked over the sea to deliver trees to RAM in srilanka are any sucessful ?

and just for the record: ISLAM IS MASHALLAH STILL FASTEST GROWING RELIGION ON GLOBE and one more thing* ISLAM IS ONLY PROMISED TO PPL WHO SEEK TRUTH/KNOWLEDGE. ***

Gandhi isnt even close to be compared with Prophet (PBUH) . so y bother!

Re: Hinduism and caste...

Syedpk
Where you get all such ideas……or one track of knowledge is enough….

  1. Oppression in Kashmir………I know that Hindus (Pundits) of Kashmiri origin were the first target of terrorism? How you justify it.
    Who oppressed whom?

  2. Palestine…..What is Palestine? When did such nation exist? Where does all money go sent for the welfare of Arab refugees by Christian societies?

  3. Sufi saints…Islam does not recognize Sufism. I am not sure if Sufi saints were practising conversion?

  4. Hindu society lived happily…Let us not make a counter attack with different versions of history……In India you can easily find debris of many Hindu worship places brought down violently and Islamic structures built over them

For that you do not need any survey or digging. A simple look at them is enough to find the truth.
You can visit Qutub Minar at Delhi or Mathura’ Krishna Temple vs Auranzeb Mosque for a start.

  1. I have talked to many friends from Spain….they have entirely different stories about your peaceful rulings. Are you sure that Christians living in Arab countries are very satisfied with the majority community and are not diminishing in every decade?

You must study why the aggressiveness of Islam was never countered and how many-many myths are created around it.

Re: Hinduism and caste...

Anjjan...
In regards to the Dalits not converting...isnt that because they are Hindu and they have grown to accept that they are from a low caste and that they will be treated unfairly becuase that is what they have been told...
They see their hardship as something which is expected...becuase they believe in the caste system just like the brahmins do...and see abuse as a result of it...

Re: Hinduism and caste...

i dont thnik dalits believe pakistani system will treat them better actually they will be better treated in india compared to pakistan . in undevided india there was no migiration to pakistan to escape discrimination.

Re: Hinduism and caste...

1.If any hindu pundit of kashmir is killed by anyone and who is innocent has not done anything then i strongly condemn the kiling of that pundit even.But there is a freedom struggle going on and Indian army commiting all kinds of crime like rape extra judicial killing and all that is what i call oppression.In islam we believe that if you skilled an innocent it is just like you have killed the whole humanity and if you save one it is like saving the whole humanity it is from quran.So If any innocent pundit is killed his killing should also be condemned.But what with that pundits who helps the army in killing the innocent muslim kashmiris

2.I think you have mixed Israel with palestine.There was no israel which was created after world war two.Check out this one too christains are also against the isrealis in occupation of palestine so christain missionaries and societies work with the local christain arab in that region.

3.Who said so in the subcontinent sufis also spread islam with the ullema(clerics) so everyone recognises them.Aulia karam also spread islam who were basically religious scholars

.same babri mosque story .The hindu hardliners started a movement against taj mahal recently but even the hardliners stopped it the reason being what will happen if there is no taj mahal in India the biggest tourist attraction

4.But the christain in lebanon are happy they are in the government too.with one of the top positions that is of the president is held by a christain(constitution of lebanon).Ever heard of crusades in spain there was a massacre of muslims who used to rule spain.

Re: Hinduism and caste…

In Undivided India there was no pakistan.Pakistan was created after the division of India.

The region which is known as pakistan used to have almost equal population of hindus and muslims where the muslims had a slight majority so they didnot came because the brahmin of punjab and sindh still would have descriminated them.

Re: Hinduism and caste…

ok that was out of MY-3rd-GRADE-INDIAN-TEXTBOOK.

how abt u enlighten over these BERHAMEN making these MANDERS hindu worship place first. And then u might want to explain how they CHOPED ears and tongues of lower class people just because they talked over them or heard wat they were not suppoz to lol yessss HAPPY SOCIETY INDEED !

even in mordern world INDIA is one of the few countries where MEN population dominates n reason given is MURDER OF GIRLS rite after birth.
blaaaaaaa! -Sadiyah

Re: Hinduism and caste…

Reconsider your statement. It is spurious. In Pakistan, never have been these people burnt alive, never have these people thrown in fire, never have been their hands and legs cut off, never have been they made blind by poking metels in their eyes, never have been their women raped etc etc. There have been no crimes committed against such people in Pakistan.

In Pakistan, there was never expolitation of those (in the manner even comparable to India). The older generation THAT CAME FROM HINDUSTSN AFTER 1947, brought the HINDU culture with itself. That is gone now. Pakistani society is affected directly from Hindu influence and evils in many ways because the people lived with Hindus and adopted many wrong Hindu rituals that bear no relation with Islam…

Pakistan did not exist before India. So it is India that has to be blammed, it is India that contained the problems, not pakistan. It is 100% understandable that the problem existed in Hindustan before partition and then was inherited by Pakistan, whatsoever…Look at my quote below,

there is nothing mentioned in Quran about any caste system…Look what Quran has to say about human equality compared to Geta,

“O Mankind, We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is he who is the most righteous of you”
Quran 49:13

This is the concept of superiority in Islam as put forth by Qurannot what Hinduism says different people born out of Brahma’s different body parts.