Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

[Southie]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

Ali one should differentiate relisation Vs generalisation. The message and the tone of such threads is very much tilted towards generlisation, which portray that every member of minority community in Pakistan can't go out from his/her home from the fear of majority (which is obviously not the case and you and me living in this society know it very well). My message for those posters ( who by any way consider them well wishers of Pakistan) is to stop portraying 'sher aaya sher aaya'. This extra emphasis on negativities ignoring positivity of Pakistani society will one day bring that 'sher' before us. Period.

Personally, I was looking for following

is story authentic?

Just as you say there may be naysayers, the other side of the coin is those who think things are fine (whetrr in India or Pak). For me the vigil is about protection of minorities ( anywhere). Those who instinctively come to conclusion things are peachy also do disservice
@ Syed I recall posting abt difficulty of Muslims to get housing in mumbai abt 1.5 years ago. IMO acknowledgment of a situation is not necessarily a bad ththat

Beyond that I have no opinion on this news - since facts still murky.

[Raj_ind]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

@Ali_Syed

The situation is not good agreed, first of all realization is needed from the masses, its only then they will stand up against the injustices.

I agree with Muqawee too that no country is free from these biases, like in Mumbai its not easy for muslims to get places to rent...having said that, I'd want our country to give equal rights to all citizens regardless of their ethnicities and religion...if there's no ideal country in the region, why cant we make one?

I too agree that no country is free from biases. But it should be ppls who could be biased according to their religious beliefs, not the government. In mumbai, its quiet easy for anyone to get a rented home provided he has enough money to meet the budget. Yes, number of hindus are biased and they prefer to rent their homes to hindus. Same with muslims who would prefer to rent out their homes to muslims only. And they have the right to do this as per laws. With hindus there could be lot of reasons for their action, may be they would dislike cow meat being cooked in their homes, same with muslims who could be apprehensive of forbidden meat being used in their property or idol worship going on. So pls dont make this rental problem in mumbai an issue.

As U have said, U are for equal rights for all citizens irrespective of their ethnicity or religion, plz check out Indian laws in this regard and let me know where U find any fault in them? Which makes the country ideal just like U would like to make Pakistan.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

@Raj_ind

I too agree that no country is free from biases. But it should be ppls who could be biased according to their religious beliefs, not the government. In mumbai, its quiet easy for anyone to get a rented home provided he has enough money to meet the budget. Yes, number of hindus are biased and they prefer to rent their homes to hindus. Same with muslims who would prefer to rent out their homes to muslims only. And they have the right to do this as per laws. With hindus there could be lot of reasons for their action, may be they would dislike cow meat being cooked in their homes, same with muslims who could be apprehensive of forbidden meat being used in their property or idol worship going on. So pls dont make this rental problem in mumbai an issue.

As U have said, U are for equal rights for all citizens irrespective of their ethnicity or religion, plz check out Indian laws in this regard and let me know where U find any fault in them? Which makes the country ideal just like U would like to make Pakistan.

So how do you see this particular incident was backed by Pakistani laws?

The problem is we can make all good laws for protection of people, but until there is a proper implementation by administration, no society can stop happening of incidents like Babri Masjid and demolition of Mandirs, etc in Pakistan.

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

So how do you see this particular incident was backed by Pakistani laws?

The problem is we can make all good laws for protection of people, but until there is a proper implementation by administration, no society can stop happening of incidents like Babri Masjid and demolition of Mandirs, etc in Pakistan.

well said
Any system or ideology need strong will power of masses and those in power to implement it properly...

[Southie]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

@ Raj - one of the best ways to bbuild wealth is to own homes. Some developments in Mumbai just didn't sell to Muslims. At least that was situation 30 to 40 yrs ago. Hope things are changing?

@ Muq I agree with ur comment. Precisely why religion based laws or religious govt not a solution. Granted these incidents happened in secular govts. But going to religious govt will be taking steps back. IMHO.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

@ Raj - one of the best ways to bbuild wealth is to own homes. Some developments in Mumbai just didn't sell to Muslims. At least that was situation 30 to 40 yrs ago. Hope things are changing?

@ Muq I agree with ur comment. Precisely why religion based laws or religious govt not a solution. **Granted these incidents happened in secular govts. But going to religious govt will be taking steps back. **IMHO.

I humbly don't agree with this. I know secular India could not deal with Gujrat riots and issues like Babri Masjid instead of having secular laws. US also supports religious terrorism (see the current attacks on Ghaza...). This indicates that every system is biased and hostage of vested interets IMHO.

[system]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

Govt can make laws but only ppl have the power to implement it on real bases.....Pakistani law or Govt certainly does not support incidents on minorities,but as a Pakistani myself I never came across a single person who is against Hindu,Christian,or Sikhs etc....no one spreads hatred against other religions,Hindus enjoys religious freedom theyr free to visit India for their religious places,Sikhs community comes to Pakistan and they are tread well,and they admitt that they are provided all the facilities,Christians do their religious activities freely ...on the other hand RAj khakarai,Bal thakarai late)openly say things against Muslims,whtever happend in Gujrat riots,Samjhota express incident,India being a Secular state has failed I past to protect Muslim minorities in India...

[Med911]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

I humbly don't agree with this. I know secular India could not deal with Gujrat riots and issues like Babri Masjid instead of having secular laws. US also supports religious terrorism (see the current attacks on Ghaza...). This indicates that every system is biased and hostage of vested interets IMHO.

Flaws in a secular system are recognized as being a manifestation of flaws inherent in the human beings who created that system. The religious system isnt even understood to be man made, as it is assumed that it is a blue print of the divine. The flaws inherent in a religious based system are never even admitted as being flaws, because how could divine laws be wrong? Laws believed to be religion inspired can never be challenged, because challenging religious based laws is tantamount to challenging the divine will, and anyone who does so is a blasphemer (Salaman Taseer for example).

Secular system is an evolving system, while dogmatic religioun based systems are unyielding, and unchanging, completely unable cope with the dynamics of society without destroying it by stifling social progress and eliciting extremism

[muqawwee123]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

Flaws in a secular system are recognized as being a manifestation of flaws inherent in the human beings who created that system. The religious system isnt even understood to be man made, as it is assumed that it is a blue print of the divine. The flaws inherent in a religious based system are never even admitted as being flaws, because how could divine laws be wrong? Laws believed to be religion inspired can never be challenged, because challenging religious based laws is tantamount to challenging the divine will, and anyone who does so is a blasphemer (Salaman Taseer for example).

Secular system is an evolving system, while dogmatic religioun based systems are unyielding, and unchanging, completely unable cope with the dynamics of society without destroying it by stifling social progress and eliciting extremism

I'm sorry, but I think you should realise the impurities brought in religion by same humans, who can corrupt holy secular system too. No religion preaches intolerance, its humans that interpret for their interests.

[Raj_ind]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

So how do you see this particular incident was backed by Pakistani laws?

The problem is we can make all good laws for protection of people, but until there is a proper implementation by administration, no society can stop happening of incidents like Babri Masjid and demolition of Mandirs, etc in Pakistan.

Nowhere I commented that this particular incident was backed by Pakistani laws. The only issue I have with Pakistani laws is that neither they are Islamic, nor secular. Thats why a small time builder is mighty enough to demolish a minority place of worship at will. If same had been done by government under supervision of appropriate court orders than no one had the right to point a finger.

Babri Masjid is a valid point U raised. Yes we are guilty of demolition of Babri Masjid. But all we can do after these kind of ugly incidents is to make sure that this is not repeated. And I feel that we are trying our level best in doing that. Buy there is no parallel in these two incidents. While Babri was demolished by a mob of religious bigots, the temple in question is demolished by a small time builder who seems to have protection of the most powerful institution of Pakistan, ie Military.

[Raj_ind]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

I humbly don't agree with this. I know secular India could not deal with Gujrat riots and issues like Babri Masjid instead of having secular laws. US also supports religious terrorism (see the current attacks on Ghaza...). This indicates that every system is biased and hostage of vested interets IMHO.

No system can do anything when religious goons step out all of the sudden and start killing. They can be stopped by force but not before some valuable lives and property is lost. But this cant be end of story. Life never stops and it has to be made sure that no such incident happens again. Unfortunately at the time of Gujrat carnage, the government of religious bigots was in power and they were hand in gloves with the rioters. But even after that same terrorist government in power, no such incidents against minorities could be repeated in spite of repeated provocations of Islamic bigots towards hindu bigots. That is where our secular system won. Rioters were punished by court of laws under same terrorist government, this is where our secular system won.

And systems are not biased but ppls running the system are. Just my humble opinion only.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

@Raj_ind

Nowhere I commented that this particular incident was backed by Pakistani laws. The only issue I have with Pakistani laws is that neither they are Islamic, nor secular. Thats why a small time builder is mighty enough to demolish a minority place of worship at will. If same had been done by government under supervision of appropriate court orders than no one had the right to point a finger.

Babri Masjid is a valid point U raised. Yes we are guilty of demolition of Babri Masjid. But all we can do after these kind of ugly incidents is to make sure that this is not repeated. And I feel that we are trying our level best in doing that. Buy there is no parallel in these two incidents. While Babri was demolished by a mob of religious bigots, the temple in question is demolished by a small time builder who seems to have protection of the most powerful institution of Pakistan, ie Military.

again point is will of administration to implement good laws. India and Pakistan can make all the good laws of the world, but until there is will to implement, they are of no use.

As far as protection of such acts by power army of Pakistan is concerned, the issue is not cleared whether it was actually a Mandir or encroaches used it. I asked a Hindu guy in our office, who lived 15 years in the very area (Soldier Bazar) about the 100 years old Mandir and was not aware of any such Mandir.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

No system can do anything when religious goons step out all of the sudden and start killing. They can be stopped by force but not before some valuable lives and property is lost. But this cant be end of story. Life never stops and it has to be made sure that no such incident happens again. Unfortunately at the time of Gujrat carnage, the government of religious bigots was in power and they were hand in gloves with the rioters. But even after that same terrorist government in power, no such incidents against minorities could be repeated in spite of repeated provocations of Islamic bigots towards hindu bigots. That is where our secular system won. Rioters were punished by court of laws under same terrorist government, this is where our secular system won.

And systems are not biased but ppls running the system are. Just my humble opinion only.

You want to say that Indian secular system guaranteed that no communal riots happened after Gujarat carnage?

Why bigotry only is connected with religious people? Everyone having vested interest can go against humanity. Seculars are not doodh ke dhulle huwe log.

[Raj_ind]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

You want to say that Indian secular system guaranteed that no communal riots happened after Gujarat carnage?

Why bigotry only is connected with religious people? Everyone having vested interest can go against humanity. Seculars are not doodh ke dhulle huwe log.

No system can guarantee that such riots wont happen, as long as religious shaytaan is at work. All i wanted to convey is that in spite of communal riots happening in connivance of gunda government of the day, our system was successful in bringing them to back foot and ensure that guilty are punished. To make things easier for U to understand, just think of shia ppls getting justice and freedom under the rule of Saddam hussain. Impossible na? But it happened in Gujrat where goons like Babu Bajrangi and Maya Kodnani were punished with life imprisonment right under the rule of Narendra Modi, the great anarche and their mentor as well.

U are right that secular ppls are not doodh ke dhule, but they are better than religious bigots because the shaytan in them doesnt need the dose of innocent's blood. While religious bigots are always thirsty of it. U just need to come out of any religious bias and see how religion has made the world a worse place to live in.

[Raj_ind]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

Govt can make laws but only ppl have the power to implement it on real bases.....Pakistani law or Govt certainly does not support incidents on minorities,but as a Pakistani myself I never came across a single person who is against Hindu,Christian,or Sikhs etc....no one spreads hatred against other religions,Hindus enjoys religious freedom theyr free to visit India for their religious places,Sikhs community comes to Pakistan and they are tread well,and they admitt that they are provided all the facilities,Christians do their religious activities freely ...on the other hand RAj khakarai,Bal thakarai late)openly say things against Muslims,whtever happend in Gujrat riots,Samjhota express incident,India being a Secular state has failed I past to protect Muslim minorities in India...

Its sad that U have never come across a single person in Pakistan who is against hindu, chrstian or sikh. U need to just browse through old post in this forum only and get acquainted with few of them. Dont forget the fact that Pakistan came into existence just because some muslims felt that hindus and muslims cant live together.

And regarding the unfortunate killing of muslims, U need to understand that its human nature to hate someone. So long as hindus and muslims are living together, some of them will hate each other. When hindus wont find muslims to satisfy their hunger for hatred, they will try to find out some ppls among hindus only and start hating them. Ditto with muslims. U can see when muslims didnt find enough hindus or christians to fight in Pakistan, they explored some new ways to find a prey for their hatred. And all the killings and bombings in Pakistan testifies this.

Scums like raj and bal thackrey are able to run their shop of hatred successfully, this is a fact. But all this became possible because muslims in India or Mumbai are not a very fragile minority like hindu and christians are in Pakistan, because of their nominal percentage. In Pakistan hindus and sikhs wont be allowed to propogate their religion to the muslims or organize a chest-thumping juloos on their festivals or other occasions. While these things are within reach of Indian muslims and they are free to openly express their religion in the way they want. In pakistan hindus or sikhs cant dare to offer their religious duties on the busy road causing discomfort to their muslim brothers, while muslims in India regularly do that. This gives enough fuel to these kind of gunda leaders who convey to their ppls that see,how strong muslims are being in our country where they are in minority. And religious ppls tend to be very insecure. They have very little faith in the ALMIGHTY, therefore they take HIS job in their hands.

U can easily get away by saying that see how hindus are allowed to celebrate their festivals in Pakistan or sikhs are allowed to offer their piligrimage. U have all the right to throw Gujrat and Babri incident on our faces just because these are reality. But there is one more reality which runs parallal to it. That is muslims have more religious rights in India rather than anywhere in the world, Islamic countries included. here U are free to practice ur own version of Islam without being hounded by hindu or muslim religious bigots. If U still want to compare religiuos freedom granted to minorities in India and Pakistan, than U are free to do that, but that will be against the prescribed laws of reasoning.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

U are right that secular ppls are not doodh ke dhule, but they are better than religious bigots because the shaytan in them doesnt need the dose of innocent's blood. While religious bigots are always thirsty of it. U just need to come out of any religious bias and see how religion has made the world a worse place to live in.

religion is not the second name of intolerance. Its the human psychology to rule and win from others and for this purpose every opposite ideology is shaytani. We just need to open our eyes, before giving general statements about religion

[muqawwee123]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

@Raj_ind

Its sad that U have never come across a single person in Pakistan who is against hindu, chrstian or sikh. U need to just browse through old post in this forum only and get acquainted with few of them. **Dont forget the fact that Pakistan came into existence just because some muslims felt that hindus and muslims cant live together. **

And whats wrong in realising this considering the inhuman concepts like Hindu Pani, Muslim Pani

And regarding the unfortunate killing of muslims, U need to understand that its human nature to hate someone. So long as hindus and muslims are living together, some of them will hate each other. When hindus wont find muslims to satisfy their hunger for hatred, they will try to find out some ppls among hindus only and start hating them. Ditto with muslims. U can see when muslims didnt find enough hindus or christians to fight in Pakistan, they explored some new ways to find a prey for their hatred. And all the killings and bombings in Pakistan testifies this.

Killing in Pakistan is due to Muslims psyche to kill what comes in their way. bravo

[Raj_ind]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

religion is not the second name of intolerance. Its the human psychology to rule and win from others and for this purpose every opposite ideology is shaytani. We just need to open our eyes, before giving general statements about religion

Mere bhai, unfortunately, religion has been made the first synonym of intolerance. this is a fact. I dont say that all religious ppls are intolerant but most of intolerant ppls are linked to religion. Just look around urself, see how many killing that have taken place are linked to religious intolerance. And ppls who are not too religious but intolerant find their most potent weapon in religion only.

PLz keep in mind, that I m not against religion. I m not an atheist but a believer too. In my own opinion, my belief is more strong than a bigot who kills in the way of Bhagvan/ GOD/ALLAH. But I love to keep it a personal affair between myself and my ALLAH. I may be wrong, but again its a matter between myself and my ALLAH.

[Raj_ind]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

@muqawwee123

And whats wrong in realising this considering the inhuman concepts like Hindu Pani, Muslim Pani

Hindu pani or muslim pani? whats that?

Killing in Pakistan is due to Muslims psyche to kill what comes in their way. bravo

Why U are clapping? And plz correct urself, killing in Pakistan is due to human psyche of hatred. A killer gets his fuel from religious bigotry, and unfortunately Islamic scriptures are the most misinterpreted ones. Its very easy to declare someone to declare wajib ul qatl by misquoting the scriptures. And the result is well known in ur part of world. Its unfortunate, but a reality.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Hindu Temple Demolished In Pakistan

Hindu pani or muslim pani? whats that?

Why U are clapping? And plz correct urself, killing in Pakistan is due to human psyche of hatred. A killer gets his fuel from religious bigotry, and unfortunately Islamic scriptures are the most misinterpreted ones. Its very easy to declare someone to declare wajib ul qatl by misquoting the scriptures. And the result is well known in ur part of world. Its unfortunate, but a reality.

I'm clapping on simplicity of thoughts you presented alleging religion and religious people reason for all the problems of Pakistan.

Hindu Pani and Muslim pani ( separate water at public places for different religions) was discrimination that Muslims faced in United India on masses level leading to realisation which formed one of the basis of demand for Pakistan. Of course, there were other political and economic fears, but masses faced this discrimination which was successfully exploited by Muslim league and its leaders