If it were proved otherwise with DNA tests or some other method then I’d gladly accept that. Warrior ancestors or not, that isn’t something what’ll impress the chicks maybe some genealogists in their late 50s but they’ll be the last people I’d be looking to impress.
**
Somebody seems to have changed their tone, looks like some Chachi thugs have been giving the shoda a hard time.
Our Pathanness is not dependent upon anyone accepting it or not, we are a mix, today way are not entirely Pashtun nor Punjabi, none of us claim to be just like the Pashtuns or Punjabis, that would be kind of ridiculous, there’s differences but the similarities in looks and culture are also there but like you said today people see us as separate and lump all Chachi’s (Arab, African, Indian, Punjabi, Kashmiri) together regardless of ethnic background.
**
Chill out Zakii, I don’t want to start a fight here. You wanted know about Hindko and I told you. I never said you had to ashamed of your mixed background, in fact most folks from Attock know this. I am not sure what you mean by Pathanness because Pathan was the British/Indian word for Pakhtuns. Also when you talk about Chachi’s you do realize that its not a ethnicity? People from Ilaqa Chach are chachis and that can mean Hindko speakers, Pakhtuns, Rajputs etc.
**
You just want to make ethncicties all clear cut black and white. It’s not as simple as that. I’m not claiming that Chach-Pathans are pureblooded Pathans or Punjabis.
**
Yara, just reread your posts and when you started posting at gupistan. If your happy with who you are, I am happy for you 
**
The problem with pseudo-genealogists/historians like yourself is you make your own theories based on your biases, a few articles and your limited experiences and you stubbornly pretend you are right no matter what.
**
No one is “pretending” here. I have spoken with proof and if you don’t like it or accept it, it’s up to you.
**
I appreciate all cultures whether Indian or Afghan, and really it doesn’t matter either way who my ancestors were, seriously things like that are only for sad FOB’s to worry about, I have never thought it was that important, I have better things on my mind.
**
Zakiii, come on noiw yara? If you don’t care why do I see multiple posts on these issues? Whats so bad about caring anyway? We should know where we came from, learn about the past, learn a little something about who we are right now.
**
I just believe the theory I do because there is far too much evidence to support it so far I’ve not had anything to suggest otherwise. I don’t pretend to believe it because I think its cool or something, I just don’t want to be denying my background, believe me it’s considered anything but cool to call yourself over Pathan here. 
Why don’t you enlighten me on our peoples background since your so smart, if you’re right at least it will save my breath at school having to defend Pathans all the time. **
Zakii, like I said before I don’t want this thing to turn into a fight. Obviously your very sensitive about this issue. The town that you come from (Attock) is heavily Hindko speaking, so I would suggest that you ask them there. This is supposed to be a mature conversation, and I don’t want feelings to get hurt. I am proud of who I am but that doesnt mean that I look down on others or believe that I am better.
Soz for being a dick mate, I’m nervous about my upcoming RS GCSE exam, which I haven’t revised for and I’m taking it out on here.
What I’m confused about is:
-why do we have the same tribe names as Pakhtuns?
-why do some of us (excluding me) have similar looks (half in my tribe look Punjabi and half Pakhtun) to Pakhtuns?
-why do we follow something called "pathanwalghi", which is said to be a altered version of pakhtunwali.
Just answer that for us. Don’t worry about offending me (I’m more chilled out about the whole issue than I let on). Did Hindko speaking Chachi “Pathans” adopt tribe names like Bangash, Mushwani, Warak etc. and adopt parts of Pakhtunwali (“Pathanwalgi”) to increase their value or something? Instead of the other way round which is Pukhto speaking people adopting Hindko and marrying local Punjabi (or some other local) women.
Are the similar features to Pakhtuns because of… I don’t know some ancient Afghan army (e.g. when Mehmood Ghaznavi came to Chach) going on a raping spree against the local Indian women or is it because the Hindkowan are similar race to Pakhtuns?
Some guy in another thread was going on about how Hindkowan originally came from Punjab, so doesn’t that make them ethnically Punjabi? His theory on Hindkowan origins sounds kind of stupid though because Hindko has been around those areas for over 6000 years and back then it doesn’t matter where they first came from because Afghans didn’t exactly grow on trees in Peshawar either.
I’m just confused because the term you use Hindkowan, GS is the first time I’ve heard it but we don’t use the term Pakhtun neither it’s always “Pathan”, it could be that they were Hindkowan who came here from further up north and the local people mistaken them for “Pathans” so they ‘adopted’ the ethnicity and took some Afghan tribe names to tidy up their background a bit.
I’m not claiming to be a pure blooded hardcore Pakhtun or anything, I like a few things about their culture but other than that I feel quite indifferent to it, I said in one of my first posts that my grandpa told me we are not entirely similar to Pakhtuns anymore and these days all “Pathan” means to us is caste (landlord/farmers etc.) and following Pathanwalghi.
My tribe is considered an “uchi zaat” in our area so I’m sorted. Pure Pakhtun’s are not exactly something that’s thought of very highly amongst our people, not with all the begging, proletariat jobs, sex work and the stealing the Afghan immigrants indulge in.
[QUOTE]
People from Ilaqa Chach are chachis and that can mean Hindko speakers, Pakhtuns, Rajputs etc.
[/QUOTE]
I know that yara.
What you don't get is even amongst Hindko speakers you have so many different types of people e.g. Awans you yourself told me are Punjabi, Qazi’s who claim to be of Arab descent, then there’s those who we call Kami (Tarkhan, Darzi, Julaahey, Kumhaar/Potters, Musalli/leather-workers, churrah/cleaners) the last of whom we definitely are not are also Hindko speaking, these peoples backgrounds are all different and this is obvious from their complexion, physical built, facial features, way of life etc.
I’m just rally curious and confused, lol it won’t affect my self-esteem or anything or I’m not that desperate to be of Pakhtun, or Punjabi or Indian descent.
By the way what language do Rajputs speak? I know that they are warriors and before partition we had a caste called Khatri who were Kshatriyas living in our regions that were also Hindu warriors, are Rajputs from that group? They spoke Punjabi similar to that in Faisalabad.
Im ashamed to admit I knew nothing about this topic.But I think I can learn something by reading the replies.Thanks N.
This thread of hindko took a wrong direction.
I was emphasizing on the language, & ppl brought their ethnic clashes.
I hope that ppl dont forget, that we all are human beings, creation of 1 Master. If you start discriminating, then there is no difference between a human being and an animal.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakiii: *My tribe is considered an “uchi zaat” in our area so I’m sorted. Pure Pakhtun’s are not exactly something that’s thought of very highly amongst our people, not with all the begging, proletariat jobs, sex work and the stealing the Afghan immigrants indulge in.
[/QUOTE]
It’s okay you can tell your type “Pathans” that the “pure” Pakhtuns don’t consider them any less. To the Pakhtuns your type “Pathans” are the illegitimate children of their forefather armies.
If you want to see sex work, child selling, proletariat jobs like cleaning toilets, gutters, dancing mujras and what not mastered by your types “Pathans” or Hinkonis then please visit Dabagari bazaar, Jolagano Bazar, Gate Bazar, Kazabano Bazar and almost every bazaar in the entire region of NWFP.
People can clearly see the inferiority complex from which you suffer within your comments. All this “uchi zaat” and “nichi zaat” are Hindu traditions for which there is no place in the Pakhtun society. Yes, there are people who are called Mosalaion, Kazabaan, Chorigar, Changalain, Nayaan, Mistriyan, and Dumaan that go as “Pathans” but actually are not “Pathan” by blood only by association with that region. The reason some Pakhtuns that look down upon them and their jobs is because these people used to be the servants of these few Pakhtun families i.e the Malikaan etc. These jobs that they do were the jobs of the servants. Once the Afghan empire fell apart and the Pakhtun might reduced, these servants were freed though they maintained their peroffession because people needed their services. So early in the morning your type “Pathans” well come to the Pakhtuns home and ask if the toilets needed cleaning, if the children needed a hair cut, or if there was a wedding so they can go and mujra there.
Now there is a reason why some people give you this status of “Uchi zat”, you weren’t born with it nor did your grandfather earn it. You see it was because of the “Pure” Pakhtuns that took your foremother as one of their many wives that you get all this respect no matter how you put it or spin it. Your tribe might be a branch that started from one of the “Pure” Pakhtuns wives of that region. Since the tribal name, tribal alliance and hierarchy comes from the father in the Pakhtun society, that will explain the same names of the tribes between your "Uchi zat" and "pure" Pakhtuns.
It happened in India where you still find “Shahs” and “Lodis” though Hindu by religion but very rich because of the vast lands they posses due to their forefathers.
Ahmed Shah Abdali had many wives, he had 72 sons, this is the leader of the Afghans we are talking about, imagine how many wives his wazirs have, his generals, his people in command and how many children they must'v had... Even Khushal Khan Khattak the famous poet/warrior reportedly had 32 sons.
So it is thanks to the connection to the “Pure” Pakhtuns your fathers receive status from the locals, not because your type “Pathans” were god given. This status is not due to skin color or physical features, this status came with being of the ruling elite of that time and has been passed on generation by generation. If this was because of skin color or anything else, it would have been the same in Pakhtun society, though there is none.
Now confused, ask you grandfather who banged his foremother? Give me your eldest foremother/forefather name and I'll do the digging for you if you wish.
^
Why do people keep thinking I have an inferioty complex? I'm just curious and confused.
What you said does make sense, marriages between Pashtuns and 'Hindkowan' are still common, there's two guppies on here who are the product of such marriages, but you could have put it in a more mature way, grow up lad.
That's what I was saying we are probbably 'mixed race'.
I personally don't belive in the 'uchi zaat' 'nichi zaat' ( only said I'm happy about it because some ignorant/jahil people in Pakistan take it seriously so at least when I'm over there I don't get looked down on by them) as long as somone is Muslim they are my brothers whatever color, caste, language they are. I'll marry any devout Muslim female if I find her attractive. I do say racist things sometimes but right now that's the last thing the Muslim world needs.
You mentioned Hindko speakers once being slaves to Pashtuns, well my friend the tables have turned and these days God seems to be on the 'Hindkowan' side.
The jobs that you mentioned are done by Pashtuns now in our villages, they work on our fields, drive our cars, look after our orchards and farms, do our shopping, perform at weddings, make pottery etc. and sadly some are pushed into prostituion (I shouldn't ridicule them for it, they sometimes have no choice) but toilet cleaning and filthy jobs, I didn't think any Muslim would do a job like that, I wont lie and say Pashtuns do it just to make them look bad because they don't and neither do Hindko speakers we have something called "chooray" who are Pakistani Christians, they do these sort of jobs.
I tell you what, we'll both go to Pakistan and we'll both see who is into prostituion. But before anything else give me your forefather/foremother name so I can dig your roots for you and give you the low down on everything.
In Swat the Swatian who are not Pashtuns were selling their daughters and the whole of Pakistan which is ignorant to that part of the world labled them as "Pathan". There are so many "Pathans" out there doing dirt and Pakhtuns get the blame for it frankly because majority of Pakistanis don't know any better. There are Tajiks, Hazarajat, Hazaras (of Hazara Pakistan), Uzbeks, Turkman, Noristanis, Hinkowan, and dozens of "Pathans" like you who go as "Pathan" doing dirt.
Once in Islamabad 3 girls were caught doing what they know best. The whole mahala was like they caught some pathan girls they caught some pathan girls..another guy some afghani girls....pissed off me and my cousin wen't to see what was going on. They turned out to be hazarajat with mongolian eyes...so I asked the SOBS what makes you think they are "Pathan"?
Another time we were at this major house, he kept on talking about how his nokrani is "Pathan"...and this "Pathan" and that "Pathan"...turned out that girl was farsiwan...didn't know jack word of Pashto...anyways..we let the major know who cleans our toliets, doesn't matter Christain or Muslim....ethnicity goes beyond religion....I was the one told the guy in the joke..pissed my uncle off though I let the ba$tard know not to get his hopes high. Entire Pakistan wants to dig dirt on Pakhtuns, it is genetic.
I'm not saying that Pakhtuns are angels, they do dirt, and sometimes out does the other person, buts its rare. Though I can assure you a 120% statisfication when it comes your type "Pathan" and the dirt they do. Just visit those bazaars that all I ask for.
Now that you admit that you are confused, I think we can all take your bull for what it really is, BULL.
btw, dont use the Islamic drum on me, I dont dance to that beat.
Not all Pakhtuns are landlords and not all Hindkowan are proletariats or vice versa.
I’m not claiming Hindko speakers are all landlords, we do have proletariats too, but there are also plenty of Pakhtun proletariats and with more refugees coming into our regions and the rest of Pakistan their numbers are on the increase.
You’re talking like all Pakhtuns are blue bloods and still live like royalty when we all know what the reality is, trust me those days of Afghan/Pakhtun reign are long gone, Pakhtuns do crappy jobs in Chach, in Pakistani cities, in England, in USA, in the Middle East just like any other race and ethnicity, over the course of time every race has it’s ups and downs, jab zaroorat parti hai to pait bharney ke liyay loag apna tan bechne par bhi utar aatey hein.
I have no reason to make up lies about Pakhtuns, my forefathers have put me in an awkward position I can’t really bash either side.
I’m just saying the truth that in our villages Pakhtuns work for the ‘Hindkowan’ maybe further up north it’s the other way round. These Pakhtuns are Afghan refugees by the way and I know for a fact they are Pakhtuns, the Farsiwan, Kohistani, Nuristani and the other oriental looking races are easy to differentiate from Pakhtuns from looks and language.
Are people from Swat not Pakhtun? They speak Pakhto though, how come? I’ve noticed they don’t look like Pakhtuns though, much better in fact, they have perfectly chiselled features, Pakhtun people’s features tend not to be as sharp.
Are people from Swat not Pakhtun? They speak Pakhto though, how come? I’ve noticed they don’t look like Pakhtuns though, much better in fact, they have perfectly chiselled features, Pakhtun people’s features tend not to be as sharp.
You are one ignorant $o8 aren't you? What a waste of time.
I'm surprised at some of the things said in this thread. gosh
Hahahahahaha… 
Why do you keep going on about what you consider people? Does it look like we care? “Oh we consider you this and we consider you that, so and so is a khar-Pathan and so and so is not considered a Pathan and so and so is the illegitimate of offspring of such and such a Pakhtun”.
Let me tell you no Pathan could care less for what the Pakhtun think of him.
Tum loag apni auqaat kiyoun bhool jaatey ho? Tum logoun ki hessiyat hee kya hai? Hamaarey driver? Hamaarey guard-dog? Humaari rakhayl ke bhai-baap? Naswaar bechne waaley? Das ruppayey ke liyey tan bechne vaaley?
Those ancient warriors were with it, they were with the times, apne waqt ke lehaaz se woh loag ‘cool’ thay, so that’s why Pakistanis respect them and those Pakistanis who are descendent from them down the paternal line are not ashamed to admit it but Pakhtun’s these days are still living in the stone ages and looked down by Pakistanis, they couldn’t give a f*** for what some bearded, boy humping, henna wearing Pakhtun thinks of them.
Tum logoun ke paas kya hai? Na maal-daulat, na husn, na taleeem, na libaas pehnnay ka dhang aata hai, na koi tehzeeb, na rehnnay ke liyay ghar…
You can talk about the ancient Pakhtuns till you go neela in the face but its irrelevant what you had a few hundred years ago, aaj ki baat karo, barra aaya desiyoun ko bura bhala kehnay waala, Desi’s and their culture has much more respect around the world than Afghans and their non-existence culture.
Its time more Pakhtuns moved into the new century and became Pathans and assimilated into Desi culture.
Tum loag apni auqaat kiyoun bhool jaatey ho? Tum logoun ki hessiyat hee kya hai? Hamaarey driver? Hamaarey guard-dog? Humaari rakhayl ke bhai-baap? Naswaar bechne waaley? Das ruppayey ke liyey tan bechne vaaley?
Forget about Pakhtuns auqaat first figure out your nasal. Tell me, what are you, who humped your foremother? :)
Now, if we drive your cars, in those cars we drive your mothers, your sisters, your wives, your teenage daughters around, while you are at work. :- )
If we guard your homes, we guard your mothers, your sisters, your daughters, while you are at work. :- )
I guess I don’t have to say more, you can figure the rest.
I know I have f88ked with your head kid this is why you are blowing off steam. Calm down Mr. Uchi Zaat and understand this that for every Pakhtun rakhayl there are a thousand of your sisters laying in some Khans Hujra. If you ever need a guide, let me know, I'll open your eyes. Just like I have made you hate your "Uchi Zaat", I'll make you hate your entire existence.
Remember kid, all I’m doing is helping you let it all out. It’s been there for generations after generations, whispered into ears for years and years. Free yourself ;)
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Munni: *
I'm surprised at some of the things said in this thread. *gosh
[/QUOTE]
You're only surprised because you have never been exposed to how a large part of Pakistan thinks.
VERY WELL SAID!!! :k:
Meri nasal ko choro, tum apni nasal ke baarey mein batao…
Who humped your foremother? A Jew? A Turkish Prince? An Arab or an Aryan? Or did she have an orgy with them all at once that’s why you can’t yet decide? Don’t worry technology/science has advanced now they’ll find out who your forefather was. 
Who said we leave our women alone with servants? Even if anyone did with a Pakhtun they wouldn’t be much danger, apni shakal aa’enay mein dekh lo ya phir Pak cricket team mein jo player hein/thay unki badsoorat, pheeki shaklein dekh lo. :yukh:
Hate my Uchi Zaat? Of course not, you’ve just opened my eyes about how your Nichi “Afghan Pashtun” Zaat really is Nichi, I was thinking our goverment should stop you people from coming in, and send the ones already here back to your scrubby barren mountains but I’m having second thoughts if you lot go back, who will take our litter out, do the laundry, polish our shoes, feed the dogs? And where will I get a Chitti Dudd Kurri from when I’m there on vacation? You people do have your uses you know…
My grand nanny had roots from Afghanistan. She was very much born in Peshawar.
I dont have anything against afghanis, but what they have done to our country after zia gave them refuge. Now all of u afghanis shud be kicked out. Including u shah suri for using really degrading words.
ashti sis, we know who our forefathers are, don’t even be confused by all those articles. Those people are no different then your type who just want to make a connection with the Pakhtuns. You don’t see us admitting on this forum that we are “confused” and seeking our true ancestral daddies. I didn’t make this a Jerry Springer show, you did my bachi.
Our family trees can trace our roots as far as 1500 years which is enough. Historical records trace our roots far back then the Arabs, Turks, and even from the Jews that migrated to that area. The biggest proof is our language, it is not Arabic, it is not Turkish, nor is it a form of Hebrew. The only two closest languages in that region to Pashto are Farsi and Sanskrit.
We are contempt with our roots unlike some “pathans” whose history is rigged if you go only as back as 100 years. Who will try to make a connection with Afghansitan going as back as 500 years, “my par dada came from Afffggoonissshtaaan looong long time ago”.
Jews, Arabs, Turks, and even some Rajput historians are trying to tie the knot with Pakhtuns. This is the reason for so many “theories” of our origins. Though even now we could careless, if we know who our forefather was (unlike some people) 1500 years ago, that’s enough. You need to find out which Afghan king made your foremother his concubine and how many “Uchi Zaat” Maliks and Choudry she gave birth to thanks to her Master.
Who said we leave our women alone with servants? Even if anyone did with a Pakhtun they wouldn’t be much danger, apni shakal aa’enay mein dekh lo ya phir Pak cricket team mein jo player hein/thay unki badsoorat, pheeki shaklein dekh lo.
LOL Do I even have to reply to that? Nigga plz, you know the real deal when it comes to Pakhtun and their looks. Sharukh Khan, Salman Khan, Amir Khan, Dilip Kumar (entire Bollywood for god sakes) and the Hindu family of Kapoor still are cashing on Pakhtun genes. In Pakistani cricket team, your sisters will abandon their entire race just for Afridi and Imran Khan. Yeah yeah yeah, Imran Khan was raised in Karachi, so what, the man is writing books on “Pathans”. I do feel sorry for you though, I know you didn’t get any of our features. I saw your picture, boy band member wannabe one ugly motha forking chimpanzee.
Hate my Uchi Zaat? Of course not, you’ve just opened my eyes about how your Nichi "Afghan Pashtun" Zaat really is Nichi, I was thinking our goverment should stop you people from coming in, and send the ones already here back to your scrubby barren mountains but I'm having second thoughts if you lot go back, who will take our litter out, do the laundry, polish our shoes, feed the dogs? And where will I get a Chitti Dudd Kurri from when I'm there on vacation? You people do have your uses you know...
Oh so now I am “Afghan Pashtun”? Haraaay yaaar, why do you guys do that, as soon as I say that let the Pakhtuns see how their Pakistani beraders think of them you go ahead and lebal me with names. I don’t mind that though, I know my history and roots. I am an Afghan by ethnicity, and I am Pakhtun by race. So is every Pakhtun of Pakistan.
BUT! You know you are very lousy in playing mind games. You want to make it seem like that you are trashing “Afghan Pashtuns” because you don’t wish to upset your “Pakistani” Pashtuns but you made a few grave mistakes that points out your hypocrisy. Tell me ashti bahen je, since when did “Afghan Pashtun” join Pakistani cricket team? All the Pakhtuns in Pakistani team are from Pakistan, though you just made some very horrible racial remarks about their looks. You idiot! Proof read before you post, don't get so excited english powerpuff girl.
Son, don’t try to hide your true feelings or emotions, let it all out, let the Pakhtuns see this hate, these stereotypes, so these bahadurr “Pathans” know dood ka dood or paani ka paani.
sweetpie baby you agree with all that he said? Why shouldn’t you, it gives you pride doesn’t it? You have something to throw back at Pakhtuns, something to make you feel proud about yourself now. Do me a favor, print that post out and frame it, look at it every day when you get up and pretty soon you wouldn’t feel that bad about yourself.
Entire Pakistan makes its self feel good by trashing Pakhtuns. It is systematic, it is the obsession with gura rang, gura race. Poor *******s! You people seriously need to see some heavy duty shrinks!