Hindko

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
1

A language diverse & rich. Spoken in pakistan by 1,875,000 people. I give credit to Leo urf 2hot2stop for reminding me to open up a thread in this regard.

All I know about this language is that its spoken in Peshawar city(original mother tongue), Abbotabad, Attock, Chaklala, Hazarewaal, Rawalpindi & a couple of other cities.

Hindko
Hindko is an ancient language spoken in the Indian subcontinent. It is spoken in the areas of North West Frontier Province, Hazara, Punjab and Kashmir. During the pre-Buddhist era, the language of the masses was refined by the ancient grammarian Panini who set the rules of a structurally rigorous language called Sanskrit which was used principally for scriptures (analogous to Latin in the Western world).
Meanwhile, the vernacular language of the masses, Prakrit developed into many tongues and dialects spread over the Northern parts of the subcontinent. Hindko is believed to be closely related to Prakrit. Due to the geographic isolation of the regions, it has undergone very little corruption.

Source

Zakk posted a nice thread here.

Hindko is a very ancient language of Indian subcontinent. It is spoken in NWFP, HAZARA, PUNJAB AND KASHMIR.It is about 6000 years old.It was on its peak in era of Budism.languages like URDU, PUNJABI and HINDI are derived from the HINKDO.In early times HINDKO was known as PRAKARAT. SANSIKRAT was also derived from HINDKO

Source

I am totally against the idea of changing NWFP’s name to pahktunkhwa, for the very basic reason, that Peshawar was inhabited by peshoris 1st.

I was told by my family that the word Peshawar was derived from Pesh - Awar, which means Professional in english. The peshoris came from punjab & they were mostly merchants. They were prominent in bazaars like Qissa khwani, Sarki, Lahori, & a couple of other bazaars. The city was named after peshoris…Peshawar. Now it is inhabited by pathans too. Peshawar city is surrounded by different villages. The only village I was aware of where hindko is spoken is Sardar Garhi.

This topic is open for discussion

2

malik, nice thread.

It's a myth to all Pakistanis outside of NWFP that Peshawar is synonym to pathans and Pushto. It's so not true. Most of the inner city and the posh suburbs are habitated by hindko speaking 'Peshoris'. Most of the pathans live in the neighboring villages and come to the city during the day for work. I am told that as late as the late 70's, the city was surrounded by 9 or so gates called 'darwaazas' and they were locked at night to keep the outsiders out.

And another great thing about Peshoris is that they have always pride themselves as being a part of the Sarhad culture. They have learnt Pushto as a third language (in addition to Urdu). I think the demise of Peshawar started with the influx of the Afghan refugees in the 80's. Most of the refugees were from Afghan villages and for them Peshawar was like the 'New York' of the South east. They have really screwed up the 'Peshori' culture.

More later...

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oh, is this what they refer to as sanskrit? or something along those line,

interesting :)

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by funguy: *
malik, nice thread.
[/quote]

Thanks funguy.

It's a myth to all Pakistanis outside of NWFP that Peshawar is synonym to pathans and Pushto.

Xactly. Ive raised this point, & I'll stick to it. I've alwayz been given a snobbish look from other nationalities when I say that Im from Peshawar.

*It's so not true. Most of the inner city and the posh suburbs are habitated by hindko speaking 'Peshoris'. Most of the pathans live in the neighboring villages and come to the city during the day for work. I am told that as late as the late 70's, the city was surrounded by 9 or so gates called 'darwaazas' and they were locked at night to keep the outsiders out. *

I can name a few "darwazas"...

Starting with Sarki gate - My birthplace & my history. Let me add here that we as maliks owned quite a large portion, but due to family feuds & land quarrels, we lost & I can quote here "Apple, mango, peaches...gardens", over the passage of time.

Lahori gate

I'll name the other gates.

And another great thing about Peshoris is that they have always pride themselves as being a part of the Sarhad culture. They have learnt Pushto as a third language (in addition to Urdu). I think the demise of Peshawar started with the influx of the Afghan refugees in the 80's.

The influx of afghan refugee saw a demise of the sarhad culture. Peshawar city was exposed to smuggling, drugs, prostitutes...etc. The refugees, started obtaining fake passports & settled down in Peshawar city. They started their business cheap & everyone started looking to their products.

I have many incidents to relate where they started stealing from the rich in the city. Theft became a common occurrence, because it was getting harder for them to find food & basic commodities. The government stopped their support & that created a huge problem. A tidal wave waiting to break open on Peshawar. Some succumbed to that habit & continue to rob innocent people.

*Most of the refugees were from Afghan villages and for them Peshawar was like the 'New York' of the South east. They have really screwed up the 'Peshori' culture. *

I heard that famous statement about Peshawar being amreeka for these refugees. This is so familiar.

Im looking forward to your replies.

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Re: Hindko

**
All I know about this language is that its spoken in Peshawar city(original mother tongue), Abbotabad, Attock, Chaklala, Hazarewaal, Rawalpindi & a couple of other cities.
**

Hindko is heavily spoken in Attock. I don't think that Hindko is the "original mother tongue" of Pekhawar.
**
the pre-Buddhist era, the language of the masses was refined by the ancient grammarian Panini who set the rules of a structurally rigorous language called Sanskrit which was used principally for scriptures (analogous to Latin in the Western world).

Meanwhile, the vernacular language of the masses, Prakrit developed into many tongues and dialects spread over the Northern parts of the subcontinent. Hindko is believed to be closely related to Prakrit. Due to the geographic isolation of the regions, it has undergone very little corruption.
**

Interesting info. Do you know who actually gave named "Hindko" as a language? I mean I know what Hind-Ko mean in Pashto & what they are referring to, but if you have any info, please do let me know.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by funguy: *
malik, nice thread.

It's a myth to all Pakistanis outside of NWFP that Peshawar is synonym to pathans and Pushto. It's so not true. Most of the inner city and the posh suburbs are habitated by hindko speaking 'Peshoris'. Most of the pathans live in the neighboring villages and come to the city during the day for work. I am told that as late as the late 70's, the city was surrounded by 9 or so gates called 'darwaazas' and they were locked at night to keep the outsiders out.

And another great thing about Peshoris is that they have always pride themselves as being a part of the Sarhad culture. They have learnt Pushto as a third language (in addition to Urdu). I think the demise of Peshawar started with the influx of the Afghan refugees in the 80's. Most of the refugees were from Afghan villages and for them Peshawar was like the 'New York' of the South east. They have really screwed up the 'Peshori' culture.

More later...
[/QUOTE]

What garbage.

Just because they are called “Peshoris” doesn’t mean they own Peshawar. Even Pashtun/Pakhtuns living in Peshawar are called Peshoris or Peshawari (Also Pekhwaray, Pekhwari). "Peshoris" is no different then Islamabadi/Lahori.

The so-called “Sarhad culture” is Afghan culture for your information, that is why it is so different from the rest of Pakistan (majority of which is Hindustani culture), so what did the Afghans refugees do to the “Sarhad culture” that wasn’t there already? Please don’t get into the drugs, guns bs with me on that one. In fact, it was the Peshawari that influenced and forced the Farsiwan (majority of the Afghan refugees at that time & during the time of Taliban) to learn Pashto when they came over to Pakistan.

Hindkowan are a minority in NWFP, not a majority, many have linkage to Punjab by blood rather then Afghanistan or Pakhtunkhwa. Some Hindkowan have not only learnt Pashto but also abandoned Hindko totally and those are the types that are always referred to as “bazarwal”, “mosalain”, “niyaan”, “kazabaan” etc. etc. who are proud Pathans themselves amongst Pakhtuns. Hindkowan are only in valuable numbers in only two cities of NWFP, Kohat & Pekhawar. Many of the other areas of NWFP have little or no trace of Hindkowans.

Now let me also correct you on another misunderstanding you have. Pekhawar wasn’t the “New York” of the South East for these people, before there was Quetta or Karachi there was the one and only KABUL JAN! Kabul was the Switzerland of Central Asia. Pakhtuns/Pathans didn’t run towards Karachi for jobs then, they ran towards Kabul Jan. Kabul jan had everything, this is why the Mullahs were keen on destroying it.

7

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shah Suri: *

What garbage.

Just because they are called “Peshoris” doesn’t mean they own Peshawar. Even Pashtun/Pakhtuns living in Peshawar are called Peshoris or Peshawari (Also Pekhwaray, Pekhwari). "Peshoris" is no different then Islamabadi/Lahori.

The so-called “Sarhad culture” is Afghan culture for your information, that is why it is so different from the rest of Pakistan (majority of which is Hindustani culture), so what did the Afghans refugees do to the “Sarhad culture” that wasn’t there already? Please don’t get into the drugs, guns bs with me on that one. In fact, it was the Peshawari that influenced and forced the Farsiwan (majority of the Afghan refugees at that time & during the time of Taliban) to learn Pashto when they came over to Pakistan.

Hindkowan are a minority in NWFP, not a majority, many have linkage to Punjab by blood rather then Afghanistan or Pakhtunkhwa. Some Hindkowan have not only learnt Pashto but also abandoned Hindko totally and those are the types that are always referred to as “bazarwal”, “mosalain”, “niyaan”, “kazabaan” etc. etc. who are proud Pathans themselves amongst Pakhtuns. Hindkowan are only in valuable numbers in only two cities of NWFP, Kohat & Pekhawar. Many of the other areas of NWFP have little or no trace of Hindkowans.

Now let me also correct you on another misunderstanding you have. Pekhawar wasn’t the “New York” of the South East for these people, before there was Quetta or Karachi there was the one and only KABUL JAN! Kabul was the Switzerland of Central Asia. Pakhtuns/Pathans didn’t run towards Karachi for jobs then, they ran towards Kabul Jan. Kabul jan had everything, this is why the Mullahs were keen on destroying it.
[/QUOTE]

PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED BROTHER!

Kabul is offcourse the heartland of the Pakhtuns/Afghans, Ghurghasht The Great had built the Kabul Fort which still stands after 3000 years.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *

PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED BROTHER!

Kabul is offcourse the heartland of the Pakhtuns/Afghans, Ghurghasht The Great had built the Kabul Fort which still stands after 3000 years.
[/QUOTE]
Too bad no one speaks pashto in kabul. I have known Afghans from Kabul and they are completely different in there culture and ways then Pakistani pashtuns.

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^
People will communicate in the ‘lingua franca’ of their region and over time sometimes without even noticing it they’ll switch over completely to it.

It doesn’t mean they no longer belong to that ethnicity. Their genetic makeup heritage and ancestors stay the same.

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Didn't say anything about ethnicity, just stating my observations.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Too bad no one speaks pashto in kabul. I have known Afghans from Kabul and they are completely different in there culture and ways then Pakistani pashtuns.
[/QUOTE]

They are not only different from the Pashtuns of Pakistan they are very different from their own people of the many villages and small towns of Afghanistan. The same is the case with Pashtuns living in Karachi, Islamabad, Lahor, Delhi, Mumbai etc. etc. People from these areas speak Urdu/Hindi and pride themselves on the local culture while the Pashtuns of their mother villages and towns look and feel nothing like them. They are foreigners amongst their own people when the visit “back home”. Though the problem in Afghanistan is that it should be Pashto rather then Farsi that should dominate status. But that is no different then what is happening in NWFP; people are encouraged to speak Urdu which 90% of the people don’t understand.

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Too bad no one speaks pashto in kabul. I have known Afghans from Kabul and they are completely different in there culture and ways then Pakistani pashtuns.
[/QUOTE]

Well if you havent been there by yourself then don't mak up.
Kabul's total population is nearly five million, out of that 3500000 are Pakhtuns/Afghans. and in that number about 40% now speak Farsi as their first language, but you cant just say they are Farsibans.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *

Well if you havent been there by yourself then don't mak up.
Kabul's total population is nearly five million, out of that 3500000 are Pakhtuns/Afghans. and in that number about 40% now speak Farsi as their first language, but you cant just say they are Farsibans.
[/QUOTE]

Well.... I have been visitng Kabul very frequently...

And.. the Imdad's statement is right... very few ppl spak Pashto in Kabul..

U r right abt the majority of Pukhtuns .. but... Even.. 99% of Pukhtuns speak Dari...

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Can somebody please post a few phrases in hindko? I just want to know what is so different about it. I'm from attock but not remotely pathan or pashtu-speaking though because of the way I speak urdu I'm often asked if I am.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Didn't say anything about ethnicity, just stating my observations.
[/QUOTE]

I know I just added that for the sake of it.

You are right though in Afghanistan language wise Farsi/Dari is much more popular than Pashto. When the Taliban tried making Pashto the official language even the Pashtuns were complaining, the students (including Pashtuns) in schools/colleges said they couldn’t learn a thing and that it felt odd.

Anyways who cares, Urdu is more beautiful than them all it combines the beauty of Arabic, Farsi, Hindi and others, as Pakis we should put more emphasis on it than any other language.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shah Suri: *

They are not only different from the Pashtuns of Pakistan they are very different from their own people of the many villages and small towns of Afghanistan. The same is the case with Pashtuns living in Karachi, Islamabad, Lahor, Delhi, Mumbai etc. etc. People from these areas speak Urdu/Hindi and pride themselves on the local culture while the Pashtuns of their mother villages and towns look and feel nothing like them. They are foreigners amongst their own people when the visit “back home”. Though the problem in Afghanistan is that it should be Pashto rather then Farsi that should dominate status. But that is no different then what is happening in NWFP; people are encouraged to speak Urdu which 90% of the people don’t understand.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your contribution. Now you should go and tell the pashtuns of lyari and other karachi areas that they don't know how to speak pashto and they have nothing in common with the TRUE pashtuns who all live in villages.

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There were total 16 gates in peshawar out of which 2 exist while others have vanished

The Existing ones:

Sard Shah gate and Aasia gate

Those which have disappeared:

Hshatnagri gate, Ganj gate, Bijouri gate, Lahori gate, Kachari gate, Ramdas gate, Qabli gate, Sarki gate, Asa mai gate, Rampura gate, Naya Darwaza, Dabgari gate, Do Darwazay, Kohati gate

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So no one here actually speaks hindko then?

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^
I tried a few times but nobody replied so I thought I’d stick to Urdu and English.

Why do people write it Hin*d*ko? We always pronounce it Hinko, why not write it the way it’s pronounced? What’s the point in trying to be posh?

20

SS welcome back, yet again

:dixsi: