Hinda

Re: Hinda

Both Abu Lahab and Abu Talib were Prophet Mohammad (S.A.W)'s uncles. But Abu Lahab never converted and he was one of those who were most involved in the Muslims' persecution. Hence Surah Lahab was also revealed.

Meanwhile Abu Talib raised and loved our Holy prophet (SAW) after the death of his grandfather Hazrat Abdul Muttalib like his own son. He openly supported him and defended him but as history quotes he never accepted Islam as Islam was still in the very early days of spread. He and Hazrat Khadija (razi Allah unha) passed away in the same year and that year is referrred to as 'Aam ul Huzn' ..The year of grief

As for Abu Sufyan ...he and Hinda both converted and as far as I have read Hinda even fought in the wars later after the Holy Prophet's death during Caliph Hazrat Abu Bakr's time and motivated all the soldiers too with prayers and recitations.

I don't exactly remember which book I read this in but if I do find it , i'd let you know IA BBQ :)

and Islamic history is so much fun to read!

Re: Hinda

:hehe:

Those who accepted Islam out of fear and under the sword are the best momins, but the family members somehow remained kafir..

Re: Hinda

you know about yazid son of sufyan? not yazid bin muowiya
wow

Re: Hinda

What? How does “the descendants of Abu Sufyan” not include Yazid, the son of Muawiyah?

Even if I didn’t know of something about Islam, you’re not supposed to make fun of it, you’re supposed to applaud the person for asking questions and showing interest and edumucate them. Sarcasm only drives people away from asking questions.

Enigmatic, it sure is! And thank you so much for your reply :k:

Re: Hinda

thats the way youve forced yourself to believe (the momins apostatized except three (+one who hesistated, lol)
From Abu Jafar “The people apostatized after the Prophet, except three of them: Miqdad ibn Aswad, Abu Dhar al-Ghifari, and Salman al-Farsi.”

wheres the familly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg2OClCq5LI

Re: Hinda

Not to disrespect Hazrat Abu Talib but to point out to your comment; being prophet’s family member cannot be a daleel of someone’s eeman. Abu Lehab was also the family member.

Re: Hinda

Well, the things that bothers me more is that you wud beleive they r muslims but not Hazrat Abu Talib a.s.

Re: Hinda

i wasnt making fun, but i do doubt whether i am following what you want to know. if you knew about the battles then the questions seem strange

btw afaik the allegation in para 1 is not true but something offensive (in revenge for the loss of her father in Badr) was done

i dont encourage airy fairy people to ask questions at all

Re: Hinda

Its as bothersome for sunnis as it is for you to believe or comprehend such. Eeman (whether adopted by sword or because of pure love) is up to Allah to judge but dont think that sunnis do not love Hazrat Abu Talib. I am not sure why you Shia brothers think so.

Re: Hinda

Because he never officially accepted Islam, is that not right?

Thats not to say he was a bad person or a kaafir who’s going to hell Astaghfirullah. If a prostitute could be granted a place in Jannah for giving water to a nearly dead dog, who are we to say that Abu Talib who loved, supported, protected Allah’s messenger till the day he (Abu Talib) died, will not be given a place in Jannah? I’d go as far as saying, Abu Talib was a better human than what most muslims are today.

TLK bhai, yeah I don’t get it either :konfused: why are sunnis supposed to dislike Hazrat Abu Talib?

Shardmany, you’ve lost me. I am interested in reading about Hinda’s life after accepting Islam, not about the descendants of Abu Sufyan or the battles they fought. Anyway, I don’t mind the different discussions going on in this thread. All a good read. If I’m an airy fairy person, please ignore all my posts from now on, you’re not obliged to reply.

Re: Hinda

we love him. Why should not we?

Re: Hinda

Peace BarbieCue

I didn't mean to say that you were disrespecting them ... it so happens that there is a big shi'a / sunni division over some matters and one of the disagreements is this topic. Sunnis make a point of not disrespecting Muslims especially those who were living in the time of Muhammad (SAW). This is not a rule for the Shi'a ... A lot of the posts in this thread already are done in "tanz" by our Shi'a brothers so you should look out for that ... they don't mean what they say sometimes, unless of course you are Shi'a as well in which case you would probably be reading Shi'a sources ... so I wasn't saying you personally were being disrespectful, I was just clarifying that on behalf of Sunnis we do not disrespect them. On the other hand Shi'a say some people converted due to pressure and because they had no choice or they were cutting their losses and in turn converted in a state of hypocrisy ... to each their own.

Re: Hinda

^ I seeeee :hmmm: No I’m supposed to be a sunni.

Honestly, I’m glad I’m quite ignorant when it comes to stuff like clashes between different groups of muslims. It helps me not get bogged down in useless arguments and tanz-o-taraar (is this the proper urdu word? :stuck_out_tongue: )

Re: Hinda

Following conversation took place b/w Rasoolallah (SAW) & Hinda at the time of Bayt mentioned in Surah Mumtahinah.

Hz. Hind Bint Utba[ra] Baite at the Hand of the Prophet[saw]

Hz. Hind[ra] said: "You[saw] are taking pledge from us what you have not taken from men, we are giving it because we agree with you[saw]"
RasoolAllah[saw] Said: " Promise that you will not steal"
Hz. Hind[ra] said: " Other then what I have taken from Abu Sufyan[ra], I did not know it was not permisable for me"
Hz. Abu Sufyan[ra] who present there said:" What ever has reached before today is Halal for you"
RasoolAllah[saw] asked:" Are you Hind bint Utba?"
Hz. Hind[ra]Said:"yes, Forgive my mistakes of the past and Allah will forgive your mistakes"
RasoolAllah[saw] Said: "Promise you will not do Zina"
Hz. Hind[ra] Said:"Do virtious women do Zina"
RasoolAllah[saw] Said:" Promise you will not kill your young ones"
Hz. Hind[ra] Said:" We raised them and you killed them at Badr"
Hz. Umar[ra] who standing near by started smilling at this answer.
RasoolAllah[saw] Said:"Promise you will stay from false accusation[bohtaan]"
Hz. Hind[ra] Said:"This is a very undesirable and filthy act"
RasoolAllah[saw] Said:"Promise you will never go aginst my words"
Hz. Hind[ra] Said:" have we have not come here to follow you in good deeds"
RasoolAllah[saw] asked Hz. Umar[ra] to take the Baite from her, Then RasoolAllah[saw] Made Dua of Maghfira for Hz. Hind[ra]

Tareekh-e-Tabari, Vol#2, Page#309

Re: Hinda

Extracts from an Interesting article about ancient Arab women (including reference to life of Hinda).

"One late striking example of such female participation in warfare was Hind bint ‘Utbah, the highly active and outspoken wife of the chief leader of Mecca , Abu Sufyan, and an early enemy of the Prophet Muhammad. Hind was to become noted also as the mother of Mu’awiyah, who governed the province of Syria and following Hind’s death established the Islamic Umayyad dynasty, of which he was the first caliph. Hind was a devout supporter of her tribal goddesses until the days when she gave up her deities and converted to Islam. Prior to her conversion, Hind contended ferociously against Muhammad and his people. At the famous battle of Uhud, in a fit of revenge for having lost her father and brother in the previous Badr conflict, Hind went to the battlefield with her women of the “Lady of Victory” where she fashioned and wore hideous victory “jewelry” by cutting off the ears and noses of the fallen of Muhammad’s. She mutilated the corpse of Muhammad’s uncle Hamzah and further cut out his liver and bit it. At the defeat of Mecca , as she realized that there was no more hope against Muhammad’s band, she angrily toppled her idols and bemoaned: “We have certainly been deceived in you” (Abbott 1941, 274-75).

Following Hind’s conversion to Islam she continued to participate in warfare, now for the side of Islam. She and Abu Sufyan aided Mu’awiyah as the governor of the province of Syria in his battles against the Byzantines. At the Battle of Yarmuk, Hind’s daughter was wounded and Hind herself was characterized again as encouraging the warriors by shouting “Strike the uncircumcised with your swords!” (Abbott 1941, 277) Hind also became an independent merchant-trader, following her divorce from Abu Sufyan, indicating that she was a courageous woman, capable and very bright (Abbott 1941, 277-78). She also showed great independence in seeking a divorce from the very notable Abu Sufyan.

        Following the winning over of Mecca the men first swore  their allegiance to Islam; then Hind leading the women of Mecca as their  spokeswoman pledged her loyalty to Islam and one God as seen in the  following narrative from the traditions where Muhammad leads her in the  oath: 

                     Muhammad: Thou shalt have but one God. 

          Hind: We grant you that. 

          Muhammad: Thou shalt not steal. 

          Hind: I only stole provisions from Abu Sufyan, who is too stingy to give me enough. 

          Muhammad: That is not theft. 

          Muhammad: Thou shalt not commit adultery. 

          Hind: Does a free woman commit adultery? 

          Muhammad: Thou shalt not kill thy children [by infanticide]. 

          Hind: We brought up our young children but you killed them full grown at Badr. 

          Muhammad: Thou shalt not slander. 

          Hind: Slander is indeed abominable and exceeds all bounds. 

          Muhammad: Do not disobey me in anything that is right. 

          Hind: Had we intended to disobey you, we would not be here now. (Abbott 1941, 276-77; Ahmed 1992, 57-58) 

                   Hind was sensitive about slander, having been herself  accused of adultery by her first husband who charged that he saw a  strange man leaving Hind's private quarters and sent her back to her  family. Hind's father, ‘Utbah was furious and threatened to kill the  husband in retaliation for the insult even if his daughter was guilty  (Abbott 1941, 269). 


        Another remark implies a bit of sarcasm as Hind, who had  lost her father and brother in the Battle of Badr, told Muhammad that  they do not have to commit infanticide or perhaps exact revenge by blood  to decrease their numbers; their people have already been depleted and  revenge exacted by his battles for the cause of Islam.** The comment that  Hind makes about Abu Sufyan's stinginess and her need to steal from him,  is verified by later traditions that following her divorce from Abu  Sufyan she borrowed money from the caliph ‘Umar, because she could not  borrow the money from her miserly husband** (Abbott 1941, 277-78). 


        Finally, Hind was ready to concede to the one true God as  her goddesses had failed her, but she did not concede her pride in her  position as a free and upstanding woman. The comment "does a free woman  commit adultery" may have had a broader meaning than the dignity of her  position and strength of her character, however. As Montgomery Watt has  also indicated, her point may have been that no sexual contract a free  woman would make could be termed inappropriate (See Watt 1981, 384).  This may have been a reference to matrilineal marital practices, which  viewing from several incidents, Hind may have held onto in her life,  such as (1) Hind's brush with a reputation of adultery, (2) her own  choice of her next husband from among several suitors, (3) the later  divorce from Abu Sufyan, and (4) the tradition that Mu’awiyah refused to  give the hand of his middle-aged, divorced mother to an unnamed suitor.  These incidents may demonstrate that Hind was freer in making her own  sexual alliances even though she appears to have joined her husbands in  the patrilineal culture. Hind at least seems to have been in control and  to have been the one to choose her own destiny." 

Link:http://arabianwomen.nielsonpi.com/warfare.html

Re: Hinda

In regards to concerns raised for Hazrat Abu Talib Imaan, I would like to raise a few points:

  1. Hazrat Abu Talib, had the honor to do Dawaat - Zul Asheera at his house? We all know that all the acts of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H are according to the will of Allah SWT. In Mecca, where there is a “Kaaba” (house of God), Allah SWT chose to have the first dawaat at Hazrat Abu Talib house. Isn’t this a hint from Alalh SWT, doesn’t it show you the high status of the noble person?

  2. When people of Mecca bycott family of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. (Shib Abi Talib), Hazrat Abu Talib was there with Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H, supporting him in his noble cause

  3. He had the honor to raise Prophet Mohmmad P.B.U.H (orphan of Hazrat Abdullah).

How can one use some narrations from books compiled years after the death of Prophet to rule out the imaan of such a noble person, considering the authenticity of such narrations are questionable, when history is the witness he has been with Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H since day one. Following are some good links that clarifies concerns about him being a muslim:

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter5a/4.html
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter5a/5.html
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter5a/6.html
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter5a/7.html

Re: Hinda

Hind bin Utbah was the lady leader of the armies of unbelievers in Badr and Uhud against the holy Prophet saww.........after the conquest of Uhud she allegedly made a necklace out of the body parts of the Muslim martyrs too apart from chewing the liver of Hamza as..........she was full of hate for the Prophet and his family and at one stage suggeted the idea of digging open the grave of Amina as the mother of Prophet saww.........u cud read more in Alraheeq AlMakhtoom which is an award winner book of history from the kingdom of Saudi Arabia........ this book is translated in English and Urdu.......in English it is titled 'The Sealed Nectar' while in Urdu it is under the Arabic title........she was of a character that when Muaqiya was born then four people- Abi bin Umar bin Musaafir, Abi Umar bin Waleed, Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib and Sabah- allegedly came forward claiming to be the father!

Hind and her hubby Abu Sufyan belong to a group known in the Islamic books of history as as the tulaqa or freed from bondage...........this term is used for this group because they and their tribe of Bani Ummayads were the most stern enemies of the Prophet saww and were the last ones to submit to the Prophet of Islam (upon the conquest of Mecca).......this is when Pagan Meccans (led by Umayyads) were in a weak political position as non-Muslims yet the Prophet saww was kind enough to offer them safety (this nobility is the hallmark of the Prophet and his family)...... however after having allegedly "converted" to Islam (without sincerity) these former "big bros" of pre-Islamic Mecca were back on top.......one clear example is their treatment of Attab ibn Usayd al-Umawi whom the Prophet saww had chosen to lead the Meccans.........it would not be too far in history when they showed their true colours and emerged as a tyrannical monarchy; this time under a claim of allegedly being "Muslim"......

Re: Hinda

What about Abbasid & Fatimid caliphates! Were they better monarchies as compared to Ummayad?

Re: Hinda

If you want to know from Islamic perspective then there is no room for kings and queens in Islam......comparitively speaking then out of the 3 Ummayads inflicted more damage to Islam....suffice to say that their garbs were soaked in the blood of the family of the Prophet saww.........the same family you and I send salutations upon in our daily prayers......
Egyptian scholar Allamah Jalaudin Suyuti in his tafsir Dur al Mansur has listed the traditions which describe the Umayyads as "the cursed tree" mentioned in the QUran 17:60. ....

Re: Hinda

Here we go again!