Heaven for Suicide bombers

Society Religion & Philosophy
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I was having a conversation with a friend recently and was discussing about the mind of a Suicide bomber.
I think everybody would agree that a person who kills innocent people has to be brainwashed completely. In this context do you think a suicide bomber would go to heaven. From his perspective he is doing the ultimate sacrifice for God. True, his thinking might be wrong but he has been lead to believe what he is doing is to glorify God. You cannot punish a person for being an idiot.

I am not trying to be a troll here. My question if a person is misguided by somebody to do something wrong, do you think it is justified to punish the misguided person as well..

Your thoughts please.

I have put this question in the Religion forum since I want to understand from a religious perspective.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

In the real world, ignorance of the law is not a valid defense in court. You can't run over someone with your car and then say omg i had no idea that was illegal.

That said, I think this whole god heaven hell thing is full of loopholes a 6 year old can rip into unless systematically scared into not questioning. and given how skillful the person doing the interpreting of scripture is in the art of forked tongue, the loopholes can be selectively widened to accept their agendas.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

Many cultures glorify and romanticize the "martyr." The noble death etc. Islam is no different. There is a reason why such notions appeal to certain segments of the population.

They may reason that their sacrifice is in essence, no different to that of a soldier who throws himself over a grenade to save his friends.. Or one who rides of into battle knowing full well that the odds are overwhelmingly against him and he is likely riding of to his death. These human bombs believe they are serving a higher purpose. For the greater good in their confused simplistic minds.

As far as whether they are rewarded with heaven, I would think not. But i dont think every individual that becomes a suicide bomber is the same. Some may just be idiots, others may be motivated psychopaths, others may be completely rational and have a rational justification for what they do... Hard to say whats in the minds of these people as none of them return for interviews

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

True.
Or it would have been true if there was only one person in whole of men kind, who did crime out of dumbA@#ness.
But matter of fact is if you don't punish, there would be more, willing to do the crime.
True for any most of the crime if not all.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

You have a right to be an idiot, but your right stops where my right of being alive starts. When your right interferes with my right, you are in violation of my rights.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

Your question is very important to answer, as there are many misguided people around and unfortunately proper answers are lacking.

Anyhow, I will try to answer your question with reasons, according to what I know, that I believe is logical and true according to Islam. So, here it is:

1: Regardless of any cause a suicide is done, all who does suicide, dies a death of a kafir.

2: Worse of all suicide death is death of suicide bomber or those who did suicide to kill others. These people are surely going to burn in hell.

3: Then comes suicide of individuals due to various personal reasons. These people die a death of Kafir, but still, it is possible that Allah might forgive the person.

Why … All who suicide dies a death of Kafir?

A Muslim can do everything, all actions to change things around him, but not suicide. If a person does suicide, than at the moment of suicide, he showed with his action that he has no belief or trust on Allah nor believes that everything happens according to the will of Allah, and even if things look out of control to him, still Allah has complete control over all situations around him, and if Allah wants to, Allah can change the events around him.

Since one who do suicide, lose that belief and trust on Allah, he dies a death of Kafir (an unbeliever). Since he is dead, he has no chance to repent, and thus going to burn in hell if Allah would not forgive his kufr.

1: Normal suicide (where individual kills himself for personal or family reasons): His sin is between him and Allah. Since Allah is most forgiving, it is possible that Allah might forgive his kufr.

2: Suicide Bombers: These people not only die a death of Kafir, but also harmed or killed others. Even if Allah forgives sin of disbelief (kufr) that is between Suicider and Allah, there is no forgiveness for sin that Suicider accumulated by harming or killing others, as only victims can forgive (especially, if victims are innocent people who never harmed Suicider. Religion, faith or belief of the victim does not matter, as all humans are creation of Allah, and thus equal in the sight of Allah. Their judgment would happen on judgment day). Allah would not forgive sins related to victims, and since Suicider dies as kafir (unbeliever), his rewards of all abadah is gone too. So, such person is surely going to burn in Hell, taking sins of his victims over his head.

Now your next question is about ignorance or stupidity of Suicider:

Allah has given intelligence to human so that he can think, ponder and use logic to conclude. It is intelligence of every human that is going through test. Insane (mentally deficient) do not go through test of this world, rather they themselves are part of test.

Ignorance, idiocy or unawareness is no excuse, because all humans are required to use intelligence Allah has given, to pass the test of this world (remember, if a person is insane than he/she is not going through any test).

On judgment day, all Kuffars would try to give same excuse, that is, cause of their sins and disbeliefs (kufr) are ignorance, idiocy or lack of awareness. But, there would be no excuse for being ignorant, idiot or unaware. If these people are not insane or mentally deficient, they would get judged, taking into account their environment, opportunities and background ... and how much they used the intelligence (brain) Allah has given them to get guided. After judgment, they would face the music.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

I don't know whether any religious text says about "suicide bombers" or not. If you want to know about suicide bombing you should read literature on suicide bombing. As you said they are brainwashed (true in many cases) and they believe that they do for God (again true in cases but not all) but it does not hold true in all cases. You see, Indian PM Late Rajiv Gandhi was killed in a suicide bombing and I think the suicide bomber did not commit it for God. Religious teachings tell us about rights and wrongs. Again notion of right and wrong changes with time (and society, culture etc). Yudhishthir who was known as dharmraj, putted his wife and brothers on stake. Should we inspire from this? Today if someone puts his wife and brothers on stake in a gambling match, what would people call him? And one can also see disastrous consequences of that gambling match and learn a lesson. Aur sahab jaha tak bevkoofi ka sawal hai..bevkoofi me log jaan de bhi dete hain aur le bhi lete hain..iske liye religious text ki jaroorat nahi..and again unki najar me ye bevkoofi nahi hoti.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

I think OP is trolling. He is pretending to inquire about whether an idiot offender can be pardoned but only with example of suicide bombing. If he really was interested to know, he could have taken other examples into account as well.

The point should be, if an idiot suicide bomber kills innocent people, he may or may not be spared but one who motivated him to kill innocent people will be punished for sure.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

Spiritual leader allegedly manipulated 400 men into removing testicles to be ‘closer to God’

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

Regarding your main intrigue whether a man who is misguided into an action:

I cant give an absolute answer but a very similar event has been recorded in hadith sharif. An example that we could learn lessons from

As is well known Suicide is Haram, and it is not thought that a suicide can lead to Jannah

Knowing that and knowing that it is essential to follow the orders of the one who is placed as the leader, the following hadith exists and it deals with a matter very similar to your query:

**It was narrated from Abu 'Adur-Rahman from Ali that:

**
the Messenger of Allah sent an army and appointed a man in charge of them. He lit a fire and said: "Enter it." Some people wanted to enter it, and other said: "We are trying to keep away from it." They mentioned that to the Messenger of Allah, and he said to those who had wanted to enter if: "If you had entered it you would have stayed there until the Day of Resurrection." And he spoke good words to the others. And he said: "There is no obedience if it involves disobedience toward Allah. Rather obedience is only (required) in that which is good." (Sunan an-Nasa'i)

So based on this the inference is that the person is guilty even if he was misguided/idiot

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

Your not 6. What loopholes?

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

you're.

but anyway, for starters - what is the point of punishing someone in hell when

  1. their life is over, so they wont commit the same crime again punishment or not
  2. no one else can see their punishment and be deterred by it
  3. their suffering will not make their victims' suffering any less
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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

Must people mke an issue of “your and you’re?” So condescending. This isn’t a formal writing class, give people some leeway. Now your going to have to go over every one of your own responses to make sure you don’t make a mistake… Grammar Nazis! :naraz:.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

vutevar yu the vanting, mad911 paijaan, i the doing. :hug:

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

First establish that soul doesn't exist. To me soul exist as we have following argument.
There is something (soul) within your body because of which you can feel pain smell things etc. When you are dead your body dont feel pain, or it does? That soul is the actual source of consciousness that remains.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

Rajiv Gandhi's killer did it out of personal vendetta. It is different from people who are misled.
Yuddhishtir's example is not the correct example in this context. He was not misled. He did it out of his own free will for which he needed to pay the price. The disastrous consequences of his actions might have been a direct punishment for his actions.

That said I am not sure, how God in His infinite wisdom would react to people who are misled. It might be something that we have to wait till we are dead to find out. :)

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

[quote]
On judgment day, all Kuffars would try to give same excuse, that is, cause of their sins and disbeliefs (kufr) are ignorance, idiocy or lack of awareness. But, there would be no excuse for being ignorant, idiot or unaware. If these people are not insane or mentally deficient, they would get judged, taking into account their environment, opportunities and background ... and how much they used the intelligence (brain) Allah has given them to get guided. After judgment, they would face the music.
[/quote]

I honestly think that people who kill themselves for the sake of God are mentally deficient. Constant indoctrination would prevent people from thinking normally. Practices which we think are abhorrent are the norm in some countries. Social and cultural practices go a long way in making people think the way they do.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

^^^
According to Islam, each and every soul that is born in this world, they are Muslim by nature. That soul also knows what is right and wrong, and that who created that soul, how to act with others, and who to worship.

It is after birth that a person interacts with parents, surroundings, teachers, environment, other human beings, own instinct, greed, pleasure, selfishness, ego, etc, etc, etc, that misleads a person into doing wrong or following wrong path.

In other words, every human being who would go to hell, it would be their own doing, as they got misled by factors around them. Actually hell is for those who lived this life and got misled to a level unacceptable from them.

Obviously, Allah has created such worldly surrounding that getting misled is normal, and that is why, even best of person born cannot be considered perfect ... thus the saying that we are not Angels, as Angels do not have free will to get misled. Anyhow, Haven is made for those who lived this life and did not get misled to an unacceptable level.

What is that unacceptable level?

That is million dollar question. Right? :)

Well, if a person follows path that soul knows inherently as correct, than that gives the soul good deeds. Anyhow, when a soul follows a path that is due to being misled, it cause a soul to do misdeeds.

A soul is born knowing good deeds, but it is made vague so that soul can be tested in worldly environment.

Anyhow, Allah kept sending reminders (Prophets A.S) who reminds the person what that person already knows in their inner subconscious. Occasionally, Allah also send books (a reminder in written form). That is why, we see that Prophets (AS) expect that people would follow them, as they are only reminding them what they already know in their subconscious.

But some souls are so misled (or wants to stay misled) as they are attached to their illusive world they, their parents, teachers or surroundings have created around them (teaching of their parents, teachers, etc, etc), they ignore all reminding and stay misled.

Most obvious of the misdeed that is caused by getting misled is not recognizing 'The God' who created them, and those who could not even remember this fact (thus worshiping created multiple gods), in Islam, we call them 'Kafir'.

Kafir means, one who covers the truth ... and as that person covers the truth and denies something that he already knows in subconscious, 'The God' who created that person, called that person 'kafir'.

On day of judgement, deeds and misdeeds of every soul would be put on measuring scale. If scale is even than that would be border line case (consider that as just pass mark). If misdeeds are more than good deeds than that would be an unacceptable level of misdeeds, and hell would follow.

Why punishment, need for haven and hell, suffering, pain, and pleasure after death, etc ... (actually, answer to post 12 ... later. ;))

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

Well, Allah knows best about their state of mind. If they are insane or really mentally so deficient in the eyes of Allah that they are not responsible of their deeds, than surely, we can expect that they would be forgiven.

But, personally, I do not think that most who do suicide bombing, they are insane or mentally deficient.

Actually, we should understand that a person who does suicide bombing, that person is doing two sin.

One of the sin is against Allah, that is Suicider disbelief on authority and power of Allah, and that sin is Kufr, for which alone Suicider can go to hell. But then, Allah is most forgiving (Rahman-o-Raheem) and 'free of need' (Bay-Niaz).

Though Allah has said that anyone who do such kufr would go to hell, we as Muslim cannot limit the unlimited forgiveness of Allah, hence we can say that it is possible Allah may forgive that sin (as suicide is a sin between Allah and his creation).

But Suicide bomber does not only do sin against Allah but creation of Allah too (other humans). Suicide Bomber harm, injure or kill others (creation of Allah), and that sinful act is unforgivable. Since that sinful act is not directly against Allah, Allah has declared that such sinful act (as any sinful act against others) is unpardonable by Allah. Only effected victims can pardon the sinful acts against them.

Since there is no reason that victims would forgive that sinful act against them (especially after their death), on judgment day, to compensate the victims, Suicide Bomber with take sins of victims on his own shoulder (scale) and all good deeds of Suicide bomber would go to his victims, thus, victims would go to haven and Suicide bomber would go to hell ... and that would happen even if Allah would forgive his act of suicide (that is a sin against Allah, that could also lead him to hell).

Obviously, those who misguided the suicide Bomber, those who condone/praise suicide bomber's act, and those who support action of suicide bomber with money and moral support, would get punished on judgment day for their act too.

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Re: Heaven for Suicide bombers

read again ajaz pai, i'm playing along with the soul fairytale in my reasoning. =)