Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
ufff Allah raham kar.
That's the difference between Ali and Muawiyah. Every a*hole could have done it. **Muawiyah did not have any special tactic used.* He used religion to serve his own purpose, and told lies after lies.
Imam Ali accepted arbitration after his people threatened to kill him if he did not. Kharijis. Otherwise, he knew exactly what Muawiyah was upto. He warned his people of the snake Muawiyah was, but they were blinded by Muawiyah's tricks.
Ali proved to be the true Wasi e Rasoolallah, the Sher e Khuda, the Yadullah. Muawiyah proved to be a man of his own desires.
brother abbass
i dont want to offend u but u have written here is giving an idea that hazrat ali RA was politically naive and accepted everything what Hazrat Muayiah RA devised just to save his life {Al ayazu billah}.
beside its also gives an impression that he was incompetent leader void of skills to convince his followers that what was right for them and to guide them in the right direction. beside he yielded to public demand and deviated from what sharaih says inspite of the fact that hazrat muaviah was a perverted person {as u think }.
{ brother aisa tu aaj tuk kisi nay sahaba kay baray main nahi kaha kay woh dur gaay and compromised over shariah............ compromise on plotical issues is sth different than to compromise on principle of shariah ............ i** wud suggest to read some authentic books about the life of shahaba ikram** so that u can get a fair idea of their high and pious character and what they sacrificed for this deen. we muslims are even inferior to the dust of their feet.}
on the other hand u r saying that hazrat ali was sheer e kuhda ....... but the picture u r presenting is quite contradictory to it.
wud u like to explain .............
Yazeed and a religious person :O .after reading all the authetic hadees n history still u r saying yazeed a religious person :O he opposed n deneid Prophet(saw) teaching from every angle n u r still advocating him .
Allah he tumhain hidayat de or aesa na hoo ke batil ki favour kerte kerte Allah tum se naraz hojaye.khuda aik waqt taak azmata hai os ke baad sabaq seekhata hai.
thanks 4 ur concern sister
but the fact is that what u have quioted here is mostly from the books of history. and u have taken extract from some website coz if u go through those books like ikhbar e tiwal and al aq dul fareed , badaya tibri u will find so many instances that goes to yazid RA favours. potraying him as a just , competent , kind, generous ruler, a great warrior , and pious and humble person.
but u since u taken a work of soime person {may be i m wrong} who have done cherry picking though he had picked rotten cherries........ lols. so u r kooking at the slanted view of hazrat yazid character.
*i asked u to look at the approch which tibri has used for compiling his book........ and disclaimer he has given about the authenticity of the book ............... do look at it then u will be able to realise the real limitation of the work of historians. *
*as u talked about hadiths ok just tell me what imam bukhari and imam muslim says about yazid. *
i** wud suggest to read some authentic books about the life of shahaba ikram** so that u can get a fair idea of their high and pious character and what they sacrificed for this deen. we muslims are even inferior to the dust of their feet.}
.............
which ones ?
the best biographical dictionaries by ibn hajar, ibn athir, ibn abd birr dont mention anything that u have written
ibn kathir and ibn tammiyah in their rivalry with the iraqi jurists have tried to rehablitate the imag of ummayyads so they r not the most objective source for thatplus u r making a very selective reading of al bidayah
Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
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And the ppl did not support those who tried to khurroj against him: like hazrat hussain and hazrat ibn zubair. *Only hazrat ibn zubair got limited success in makkah and that was due to leniency of yazid as he did not want to wage a war against the ppl of makkah, as hazrat muavia advised him. Further he ddid consider them a real threat to his khilafat. *
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and the ansar , abdullah b hanzala
Prophet said he who hates ansar is a munafiq and yazid and his forefathers proved that by their animosity towards the ansar
re: umar b sa'd he was a good man intially but he got greedy , he fought for ali b abitalib in his wars against muawiyah , i dont blame him and ibn ziyad as much as I blame yazid and his syrian advisors for karbala incident. ibn sa'd was simply the hitman and so was ibn ziyad ( who was muaiwiyah's nephew as muawiyah was ziyad's brother)
Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
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In the era of hazrat umer they complained against Hazrat Saad Bin Ibi Waqas to caliph Hazrat Umer RA that they don’t do the imamat and offer in a right way. At this haazrat saad got furious and said that how strange u ppl are.
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kufa had lots of sahaba and tabaeen living there and hazrat sa'd b abiqaqqas was not infalliable either umar radiallahanhu destroyed a gate he built on his residence,
umar also said that kufa is head of islam and he specially choose hudhayfa and salman radiallahanu to find a site for kufa.Its a lame excuse that the nawasib and rafidha both use to blame kufa for troubles caused by tyrants and dictators.
kufa is city of imam-e-azim numan b thabit alkufi
people of kufa humbled the majoosi sassanian empire thats why rafida today hate kufans.
Kufans fought and won the qadissiya, jahula , nihawand and they led the major reformation movements within islam and thats why nawasib hate them.
After Mediana and makkah Kufa is the greatest city in islamic history
Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
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i dont want to offend u but u have written here is giving an idea that hazrat ali RA was politically naive and accepted everything what Hazrat Muayiah RA devised just to save his life {Al ayazu billah}.
beside its also gives an impression that he was incompetent leader void of skills to convince his followers that what was right for them and to guide them in the right direction. beside he yielded to public demand and deviated from what sharaih says inspite of the fact that hazrat muaviah was a perverted person {as u think }.
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ali karamallahwajho was not perfect he was pressured by some tribal leaders to accept arbitration and he should have listened to the medinians and kufans and continued the fight .....he didnt deviate from shariah , show me one scholar who says ali deviated from shariah infact his wars are THE SHARIAH in dealing with rebels.
bro dont defend yazid as rafidah are against him , ali-muawiyah and yazid-hussain issues have nothing to do with the genesis of rafida and the 12er sect. I hope u dont fall into this trap, people who defend yazid are opponents of khilafat and supporters of malookiat.I suggest u read imam maududi's works and the reply to taqi usmani on his behalf.They represent the attitude of classical ahle sunnah , not mahmood ahmed abbasi and faiz alam.Rafida dont believe in caliphate but imamat , so its not an issue for them.
I don't think even a sensible sunni would call yazid, Hazrat Yazid or follow his practices, a person who had brutally killed the grandson of Prophet pbuh.
Agreed
While Hazrat Amir Muavia (RA) is a katib-e-wahi, a sahabi-e-Rasool (pbuh) and should be given due respect, same status cannot be accorded to his naalaiq and killer son Yazid....crocodile tears bahaney sey kissi k gunah nahin dhul jaatey!!
Hazrat Yazid is offensive even to most sunnis IMO
Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
This topic is so fking ridiculous with Maverick running away from my previous post. You quoted Ibn Kathir's Al Bidayah, and I quoted Ibn Kathir as well. He spoke differently about the same person. Even on wikipedia, you have sources of Sunni leaders, including Imam Hanbal condemning Yazid.
Ibn Taymeeya in Minhajj: ‘Yazeed had the sword and hence he had the power to deal with
anyone that opposed him. He had the power to reward his subjects with the contents of the
treasury, and could also withhold their rights. He had the power to punish criminals; it is in this
context that we can understand that he was the khalifah and king. Issues such as Yazeed’s piety or
lack of it, or his honesty or lack of it, is another matter. In all of his actions Yazeed was not just,
there is no dispute amongst the people of Islam on this matter.’
Ibn Hajr’s comments on Yazeed
In Sawaiqh al Muhriqa: ‘One group have deemed Yazeed to be a kaafir, another has stated he was
a Muslim but a fasiq (transgressor), a fajir (one that commits debauchery) and a drunkard. There
is consensus over his fisq (transgression). One party of Ulema have stated that you can curse him
by name, this includes individuals such as Ibn Jauzi and Ahmad. One group made up of
individuals such as Ibn Jauzi deem Yazeed a kaafir, others say he was not a kaafir but rather this
is a matter that has caused a difference of opinion.
The majority of Ahl’ul Sunnah all agree that he was a fasiq (transgressor), a fajir (one that
commits debauchery) and a drunkard. Waqidi had recorded a narration ‘Verily we opposed
Yazeed fearing Allah (swt) would reign stones down on us, Yazeed considered nikah (marriage)
with mothers and sisters to be permissible and drank alcohol.’
‘Dhahabi narrates that when Abdullah bin Kuzai returned from Damascus he stated that Yazeed
performs zina with his mother, sister and daughters. We had better start a movement to oppose
Yazeed otherwise stones may reign down on us’
This is one reason why Ibn Hajar al Makki calls Yazeed one of the most debased men in history.
Yazeed’s pride at killing Imam Hussain (as) We read in al Bidayah Volume 8 page 204: ‘Ibn Asakir, writing on Yazeed, states then when
Husayn’s head was brought before Yazeed, he recited the couplets of Ibn Zubayri the kaafir ‘I
wish my ancestors of Badr were hear to see the severed head of the rebellious tribe (The Prophet
(saws’s tribe of Hashim).
As for Ibn Ziyaad
Narrated Anas Ibn Malik said:
"The head of al-Hussein was brought to Ubaidullah Ibn Ziyad and was put in a tray, and then Ibn Ziyad started playing with a stick at the nose and mouth of al-Hussein's head, and saying something about his handsome features." Anas then said (to him): "Al-Hussein resembled the Prophet more than any other people."
References:
Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Tradition #91
i wud not mind naming my son name as yazid. but he was a tabi and many sahaba had name yazid including the brother of hazrat muavia who was a great general and took part in wars in syria. so association of the name wid a sahabi wud be better idea rather than wid a taabi.
yeah no problem with yazid name itself ...many other sahabi as yazid b hawthara , yazid b hubayra , tabi yazid b qays etc had that name.
but read up books of rijal/hadith and history on events of yazid b muawiyah and make ur own judgement.
kharijis were only 20 % of ali's army at best ,
Please cite reference.\
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but ali didnt want to dismantle the huge coalition which he had built
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Please cite reference.
Also, why did Maual Ali not want to dismantle the coalition? As per you, Imam Ali thought of khawarij better than Muawiyah. Then why did he agree to work with Muawiyah?
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As both rafida
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Whom do you call rafida? Shias?
Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
Yazeed(LA) Character 1/4
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And that's what I asked. Please cite where Imam Ali said that his priority is continuation of coalition, therefore he is willing to compromise with Muawiyah.
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not everything is STATED as bulletin points
ali's negotiations with kufan ashraf around the arbitration time proves that he was trying by fair means to keep the coalition going.That fragmentation proved irreversible afterwards but by the time of ali's death the iraqis were slowely waking up to the fact that their independence was threathed by muawiyah.
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And about 20% khawarij. You are basing it on people who fought in Nahrwan. But how could Imam know how many people are with them when they were threatening Ali to accept arbitration?
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the chronicles of battle of siffin go into elaborate details to discuss the attitudes of these leaders.Arabs fought with tribal leaders much like in afghanistan today.
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So it WAS the smartest step for Imam at that time, because he did not know how many people like this thinking are in his army, and if his life will be speared by those unruly mobsters, ancestors of Wahhabi Talibans.
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i disagree it was a SMART step to STOP the fighting , but not a smart step to agree to arbitration these are 2 seperate issues
he did know many kufan and medianian leaders were present who supported him to continue the war like ashtar, qays, ibn hamiq, ibn hatim, ibn sured etc
Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
Why are Shias so worked up about cursing a particular person that existed 1300 years ago?
Why waste your time, words and breath on cursing a particular individual that will have no impact on what your decision will be on the Day of Judgment? Will Allah (SWT) ask us our opinions of yazid? No, unless you are cursing a man who Allah (SWT) has forgiven.
Why not use our time in zikr, or sending our salaams to Muhammad (SAAS), things we actually can be rewarded for.
Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
^ the problem is not the personalities of hussain or yazid but what they represented ...hussain , ansar etc represented shariah govt and yazid , marwan etc represented tyranny and religious oppression.
support for hussian, ansar , qurra is mandatory if u believe in khilafat and islamic govt and criticism of ummayyads is mandatory if u reject bidaat and tyranny.
so the best way is to draw lessons from karbala not make it an excuse for pagentry and useless rituals and lamentations.
most sunnis unjustly support ummayyads simply to piss off 12ers, that should not be the case.Do we criticize Jesus or support his opponents just to pick a fight with christians?
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Why not use our time in zikr, or sending our salaams to Muhammad (SAAS), things we actually can be rewarded for.
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rising against an oppressor is better than 50 nafali hajj ....fatwa of imam malik
Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
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Why are Shias so worked up about cursing a particular person that existed 1300 years ago?
Why waste your time, words and breath on cursing a particular individual that will have no impact on what your decision will be on the Day of Judgment? Will Allah (SWT) ask us our opinions of yazid? No, unless you are cursing a man who Allah (SWT) has forgiven.
Why not use our time in zikr, or sending our salaams to Muhammad (SAAS), things we actually can be rewarded for.
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IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WASTE OF OUR PROPHET MOHAMMAD SAW MISSION AND HIS GRANDSONS MARTYRDOM INDEED IF WE DID NOT RISE AND SPOKE OUT AGAINST AN OPPRESSOR!
IT IS THAT WE SHOULD REMEMBER THE CURSED YAZEED OF 1300 YEARS AGO , AND THE CURRENTT OPPRESSORS OF TODAY LIKE YAZEED , IF IT WERE NOT IMAM HUSSAIN (AS) STANDING UP AGAINST HIM ISLAM WOULD HAVE COMPLETLY PERISHED YOU AND I WOULD NOT BE CALLING OURSELVES MUSLIM TODAY! AND LIVE A LIFE IN JAHILIYAAAAAAAA
CURSING THE ENEMIES OF ISLAM IS SERVING ALLAH!
Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
Yazid died a very long time ago. He is no longer an oppressor so how can you rise against him? LOL.
I would like to know why is this cursing exclusively for Yazid only? Why not curse the cowards of kufa as well? They were the hypocrites that day. Cutting yourselves today isn't going to atone for their cowardness.
The twelvers are considered to be pious muslims even to sunnis. Nobody disrespects them unless they are being ignorant.
Re: Hazrat Yazid Ibn Muavia (RA) First Sermon as an Amir ul Momin
Allah is most forgiving. Yazid's fate is in the hands of Allah (SWT). I'll leave them 2 to sort it out. In the meantime, i'll just focus on my iman, praying 5x a day and doing good deeds. I suggest all of you do the same since these will actually help you attain paradise.
Why are Shias so worked up about cursing a particular person that existed 1300 years ago?
hmm, it seems to me that they love Hussain.
hmm, it seems to me that they love Hussain.
I love my dad, cursing people who wronged him isn't my way of showing affection though.
Stupid logic. If they love Hussain, they should follow his example because he was a great man and leader.