Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Hadiths are classified as Sahih, Good, Exceptable and Weak. The above hadiths are weak.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Waiting for the reply of Lagawab of 192 ......or he has made you Lagawab......
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Furthermore the people got ignited over the cursing act of ali(ra) ....but when they themselves curse thousands of sahabas including 3 caliphs...and considerd it a important part of deen(rukan-e-deen) ...then nobody cares...why these double standards...
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Who declared them weak, like I mentioned how the hadees were week posted by Shias, prove it like that.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
the material itself is weak.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
:halo: ^^
LOL, I am sorry but thats not how it works.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Ok, i have had enough of these lame excuses by the defenders of Muawiyah and other Nasibi characters, the fact is that it was not a mere question rather an order, as you can see the tradition once again “Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, gave order to Sa’d”
And if still the defenders of Muawiyah al-Nasibi gonna bring same lame excuse then allow me to present the testimony of famed Sunni scholar, the commentator of one of the books of Saha Satta Sunan Abu Dawood namely Allamah Abdul Hadi al Sindi:
[RIGHT]نال معاوية من علي ووقع فيه وسبه بل أمر سعدا بالسب كما قيل في مسلم والترمذي [/RIGHT]
“Muawya insulted and abused Ali, in fact he also ordered Saad to abuse (Ali) as it has been mentioned in Muslim and Tirmizi” .
Sharah Sunan Abu Dawood.
The reference can also be read at the online Sharah Sunan Abu Dawood at the famed Wahabi/Salafi website
http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=5&Rec=135
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
There are many traditions that proves the resetment of Muawiyah for Ali bin Abi Talib [as] as he instituted the bidah of cursing Ali [as] from the pulpites but if you want to close your eyes from all such traditions then its up to you.
You are making it very simple, it was not just tribal conflict rather the resetment of Bani Ummayah (etc) towards Ali bin Abi Talib [as] which has been termed as ‘Nasb’ by the scholars, and that Nasb leads ones to be a Munafiq and Kaafir so you cannot just call it a tribal conflict and close your eyes.
Noone can just absolve Muawiyah from the kufr act of cursing Ali bin Abi Talib [as], Muawiyah’s appointment of Marwan as a governor was also the part of this cruel act as Muawiyah used to appoint governors (like Mughira, Marwan etc) on the condition that they would curse Ali [as] and those nawasib went to the length where they had modified prayers as well.
Imam of Deobandies, Muhammad Anwar Shah Kashmiri recorded the following reference in his esteemed commentary of Sahih Bukhari about Marwan; the beloved governor of Muawiyah:
“The sunnah is to perform prayer before the sermon, but Marwan made it (sermon) before the prayer because he used to abuse Ali (may Allah be pleased with him)”
Faiz al Bari Sharah Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1 page 722 No. 954, Kitab al-Eidayn
The motivating force for Marwan in making changes in prayer so that he could curse Ali [as] was his caliph Muawiyah. In al ‘Al-Uam’ volume 1 page 392 by Imam al-Shafi’ee we read:
Shafi’ee stated that Abdullah bin Yazid al-Khutmi said: ‘The prophet (pbuh), Abu bakr, Umar and Uthman used to start by praying before the sermon till Muwiyah came and made the sermon before (the prayer)’
Al-Uam, volume 1 page 392
So a question to you and other defenders of open Nawasib:
“If you say Muawiyah was not invovled in the practice of his governors of cursing Ali (which was not the case) then tell us what efforts did muawiyah take to prevent his governors from cursing Ali bin Abi Talib [as]” ?
Alhamdulilah, no one will be able to bring any strong reply to this since historical facts cited above makes it clear that it was all hapeening during his own reign by his own appointed governors.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Its obvious to me that you guys are just being repetitive in your arguments. Just so no one can say that I didn't give any side a chance to respond, all of you have 24 hours to wrap up your arguments in this thread. After this time, this thread will be closed and no further thread will be allowed to discuss these issues for some time.
Thanks.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
**Ripper **another material for you from your books (for you to reject off-hand) - quoting Imam whom you deem to be infallible.
Yet again you will declare it to unreliable just because it goes against your taste, just that and nothing more. That’s only criteria you are working with.
Abu Al-Fath Al-Arbali - a major Shia scholar - mentions in his book Kashf Al-Ghummah the story of some people from Iraq entered upon Al-Imam Zayn Al-Abideen Ali bin Al-Hussain and said some bad things about Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman.
When they were done, Ali bin Al-Hussain told them, 'Tell me, Are you the (Muhajirs, those who were expelled from their homes and their property, while seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure, and aiding Allah and His Messenger: such are indeed the sincere ones)?
They answered, ‘No!’
Then Ali bin Al-Hussain said, ‘So, are you (those who, before them, had homes (in Medina) and had adopted the Faith, show their affection to such as came to them for refuge, and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves, even though poverty was their (own lot))?’
They answered, ‘No!’
Ali bin Al-Hussain said, 'Therefore, you disassociated yourselves from being one of these two groups and I bear witness that you are not the ones (who came after them say: “Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith, and leave not, in our hearts, rancour (or sense of injury) against those who have believed. Our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness, Most Merciful.”) Get out of here, may Allah curse you!" [Kashf Al-Ghummah, by Al-Arbali, vol. 2, p. 291, under the subtitle of “Virtues of Al-Imam Zayn Al-Abideen”]
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
lajawab: Muaweyah took interest
Sahih Muslim Book 010, Number 3852
Why don’t you post the Hadith you mention here for everyone to see if Muawiyah took any interest…Or are you tabbaraing again…
And some of the books you mention, are they even real Sunni books?
these books are authentic sunni books,
on your request:
http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/010_smt.html
Book 10, Number 3852:
Abil Qiliba reported: I was in Syria (having) a circle (of friends). in which was Muslim b. Yasir. There came Abu’l-Ash’ath. He (the narrator) said that they(the friends) called him: Abu’l-Ash’ath, Abu’l-Ash’ath, and he sat down. I said to him: Narrate to our brother the hadith of Ubada b. Samit. He said: Yes. We went out on an expedition, Mu’awiya being the leader of the people, and we gained a lot of spoils of war. And there was one silver utensil in what we took as spoils. Mu’awiya ordered a person to sell it for payment to the people (soldiers). The people made haste in getting that. The news of (this state of affairs) reached 'Ubada b. Samit, and he stood up and said: I heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbidding the sale of gold by gold, and silver by silver, and wheat by wheat, and barley by barley, and dates by dates, and salt by salt, except like for like and equal for equal. So he who made an addition or who accepted an addition (committed the sin of taking)interest. So the people returned what they had got. This reached Mu’awiya. and he stood up to deliver an address. He said: What is the matter with people that they narrate from the Messenger (may peace be upon him) such tradition which we did not hear though we saw him (the Holy Prophet) and lived in his company? Thereupon, Ubida b. Samit stood up and repeated that narration, and then said: We will definitely narrate what we heard from Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him)though it may be unpleasant to Mu’awiya (or he said: Even if it is against his will). I do not mind if I do not remain in his troop in the dark night. Hammad said this or something like this.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
^^
Maybe a good option for Muawiyah 
would have been to have a soldier chop off the silver utensils into tiny pieces and then distributed them amongst the soldiers…
Or, he could have sold the item and received cash instead to distribute amongst the troops…
Now, let’s put you in the position…You need to pay your troops, you have no cash…All you have is a silver utensil…Being smart and intelligent that you are, what would have been the smart thing to do?
P.S. And what does interest have to do with selling a utensil?
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
indeed… but muawiyah opted to object to those pious muslims ubada b samit (ra) one of the ansar who took the pledge of aqaba] who narrated a tradition of the Prophet[pbuh] …isnt he very similar to the hadith deniers you love to criticize ?
read the whole chapter in this link about exchage of gold for gold and silver for silver
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
please read again,
"we gained a lot of spoils of war." and besides that what is wrong with chopping off the silver utensils into tiny pieces and then distributing them amongst the soldiers?
This tradition also proves that muwayia rejected the hadith that was narrated by a sahabi. A hadith rejector.
Did you accept that those books I quoted are sunni books?
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Let’s say I am talking to a scholar…The scholar says, you can wipe your feet during wudu with your socks on…To which I would reply, but what about the fact that we have to run our fingers through our toes?
Does that make the scholar I am talking to a Hadith rejector?
Now my knowledge is limited to what I know, but the scholar’s knowledge exceeds mine…So upon my further review, I would later learn that the scholar has specific examples by which it is proven that the Holy Prophet :saw: did indeed wipe his hands over his feet to finish off his wudu…
Now, anyone who is listening with limited knowledge like myself would suddenly exclaim as you did, that the scholar is a Hadith rejector…But in fact, it is the scholar who is upholding the true traditions of the holy Prophet :saw:…
Not to belittle the knowledge of of Ubada , but a few times differences of opinions have arisen and been cleared…Such was the case here too…Nowhere is interest or usury mentioned in this whole hadith…
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
can you explain .....are u putting the scholar in the position of muawiyah and yourself in the position of ubadah[ra] ?
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
please read again
"So he who made an addition or who accepted an addition (committed the sin of taking)interest"
please comment on this:
Abdullah ibne Umar narrates that he heard Rasulullah say:
"Muaweyah shall not die on the path of Islam".
Sunni references
Tareekh Tabari Volume 8 page 186Volume 8 page 186
and did you accept that Tabari is a sunni book.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
[mod]I gave all of you a warning to start wrapping up your arguments. It seems clear to me that none of have made any attempt to even try to wrap up this discussion. You are just continuing on your merry way. So lets not waste any more time here. F*un is over. *
This thread is closed.
*No one should try to restart this discussion again for some time, otherwise buhat bura ho ga! :p *[/mod]