Assalam Aleekum
I want to know about his contribution to the expansionof Muslim
empire, Administration and other important aspects.
If possible please give the point of view of non muslims.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Mawiyaa(RA)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
Assalam Aleekum
I want to know about his contribution to the expansionof Muslim
empire, Administration and other important aspects.
If possible please give the point of view of non muslims.
[/QUOTE]
who is he?
Brother Rehman1 have a very good knowledge about other islamic issues but he dont know about Ameer Mawiyaa, known as son of Abu Sufiyan and his wife Hind.
Thanks Rehman1 you used the word Muslim Empire not the Islamic State.
Wasalam
I am smelling of an un-necessary seceterian fight among sunnis brothers and shiite brothers yet again...
Mods: please, keep an eye... Thanks!
Ameer Mawiyaa, the son of Abu Sufiyan, ruler of Damascus, revolted against Imam Ali (AS) and divided the Islamic Empire. After Imam Ali’s death, Mawiyaa took over the khelafat and made it a monarchy and an elite luxurious lifestyle similar to what you see nowadays in Saudi Arabia the gulf countries was started. Social justice and pious leadership still is a dream for Muslim ummah that we must strive for it.
THE PROHIBITION OF WATER
Moawiya was ruling over Syria as its governor for nearly sixteen years; and was secretly planning to grab the Caliphate taking advantage of every possible opportunity. The best excuse for him to revolt against the Central authority and declare his own caliphate was the Othman's murder. He had not done any thing concerning the appeals of Othman for help, during his lifetime. In fact, he was waiting far him to be murdered, so that he could make it an excuse for his scheme. Othman got murdered and Moawiya immediately sought to exploit the situation for his own purpose.
On the other hand, people after the murder of Othman rallied behind Ali (who because of various reasons, was reluctant to take the responsibility of Caliphate) and declared their allegiance to him. Observing that the responsibility was now formally turned to him, he accepted it and his Caliphate was proclaimed in Medina, the capital and centre of Muslim world in those days. All provinces of Islamic government submitted to his obedience - with the exception of Syria, which was under Moawiya. He refused allegiance to Ali, accusing him of sheltering the murders of Othman. He recruited a large number of Syrian soldiers and made preparation for the declaration of independence of his provinces.
After settling the issue of the battle of Camel (JAMAL), Ali turned his attention to Moawiya. He wrote several letters to him, but in vain. Both sides moved their armies towards each another. Abul Aawar Salmi was leading Moawiya's advanced battalion and Malik Ashtar was in command of the advanced battalion of Ali. They met at the bank of the Euphrates. Ali's directive to Malik was not to be the first to attack. But Abul Aawar made a severe attack to intimidate the soldiers of Ali. Mailk then pushed the Syrians far behind. Salmi now thought of another tactics. He reached the Ghat, i.e. the slope on bank of the Euphrates, which was the only spot convenient to fetch water. He deployed his spearmen and archers to guard the spot and prevent Malik and his company from coming near it. Soon after, Moawiya himself arrived with a large army. Happy at the strategy of his commander he further increased the number of the soldiers guarding the approach to river. Soldiers of Ali were put in distress owing to the shortage of water. Moawiya with pleasure said: "This is our first Victory." Only one man, Amr bin Al-Aas, the shrewd minister of Moawiya did not think it a good policy. On the other side, Ali himself had arrived and was informed of the situation. He sent a letter with Saasa'a to Moawiya notifying:
"We have come here, but as far as possible we do not like to wage a war of fratricide between the Muslims. We earnestly hope to settle our differences through negotiations and discussions. But we observe that you and your followers have started using weapons of destruction before trying anything else. Besides, you have denied water on my companions. Instruct them to desist from this act, so that we can start negotiations. Of course, if you do not like anything but war, we are not afraid of it."
Moawiya consulted his advisor. The general opinion was to take advantage of the golden opportunity and ignore the letter. Only Amr bin Al-Aas against this view. He said, "You are mistaken." The fact is that Ali and his men do not want to start the war themselves, and it is because of this that they are silent at present and have tried to dissuade you from your scheme through this letter. Do not think they will retreat if you ignore their letter and continue denying them the water. Because then they will take out arms and will not stop till they have driven you away from Euphrates with disgrace." But the majority of advisors were of the opinion that the denial of water would weaken the enemy compelling them to retreat. Moawiya personally was in favor of this idea. Discussion came to end; Saasa'a asked for the reply; Moawiya, using the delaying tactics, said that he would send the reply afterwards. Meanwhile, he ordered his soldiers guarding water to be extra alert and to prevent coming and going of the soldiers of Ali.
Ali was distressed at this development, because it brought to an end every hope of any amicable settlement through talks and negotiations, and showed that the opposite side was devoid of every goodwill. Now, the only way out was to use force. He stood before his soldiers and delivered a short but forceful address, the contents of which were as follows:
"These people have started oppression, and opened the door of conflict and welcomed you with hostility. They are hungry for war and are demanding war and bloodshed from you. They have denied you water. Now you have to choose between the two paths. There is no third course. Either accept the humiliation and oppression or remain thirsty as you are, or satisfy your thirsty swords with their dirty bloods so that you may quench your thirst with the sweet water. Death is to live a defeated and disgraceful life; and Life is to be victorious even at the cost of death. Verily, Moawiya has gathered around him some ignorant and misguided mob; and is taking advantage of their ignorance, so that they are making their necks targets of the arrows of death."
This address moved the soldiers of Ali and stirred their blood. They made a severe attack and pushed the enemy far back and took the possession of (Shariah) Ghat.
Amir bin Al-Aas (whose forecast was now a fact) said to Moawiya: "Now, if Ali and his army pay you with your own coin what will you do? Can you take possession of the "Shariah" (Ghat) from them for the second time?" Moawiya said, "In your opinion, how will Ali deal with us now?"
"I believe, Ali will not behave as you had done. He will not deny us water. He has not come here for such deeds."
The soldiers of Ali after removing the soldiers of Moawiya from Ghat, asked his permission to prevent the enemy from taking water. Ali said, "Don't deny them water. These are the methods of ignorant. I do not set my hands to such acts. I am going to start negotiation with them on the basis of the Holy Book of God. If they accept my proposals, well and good; and if they refuse, I shall fight with them, but gentlemanly not by denying them water. I will never do such thing and will not oppress them by shortage of water."
Not long afterwards soldiers of Moawiya used to come to the Ghat side by side with the soldiers of Ali, and nobody prevented them.
**
Don’t worry. I will.
As immediately as this thread turns into a sectarian discussion, all of you will compel me through your actions to close it without warning. So please consider yourselves warned and do not say that it was closed without prior notification - here is your notification: as per the Moratorium rules, keep all sectarian discussions OUT of this Forum and this thread. That will ensure this thread is NOT closed.
Thank you in advance.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
Brother Rehman1 have a very good knowledge about other islamic issues but he dont know about Ameer Mawiyaa, known as son of Abu Sufiyan and his wife Hind.
Thanks Rehman1 you used the word Muslim Empire not the Islamic State.
Wasalam
[email protected]
[/QUOTE]
Sir
expansion of Muslim empire, Administration and other important aspects.
Please, answer these three points. And keep the secterian bias out this
discussion.I never asked about religious point of view.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
THE PROHIBITION OF WATER
Moawiya was ruling over Syria as its governor for nearly sixteen years; and was secretly planning to grab the Caliphate taking advantage of every possible opportunity. The best excuse for him to revolt against the Central authority and declare his own caliphate was the Othman's murder. He had not done any thing concerning the appeals of Othman for help, during his lifetime. In fact, he was waiting far him to be murdered, so that he could make it an excuse for his scheme. Othman got murdered and Moawiya immediately sought to exploit the situation for his own purpose.
On the other hand, people after the murder of Othman rallied behind Ali (who because of various reasons, was reluctant to take the responsibility of Caliphate) and declared their allegiance to him. Observing that the responsibility was now formally turned to him, he accepted it and his Caliphate was proclaimed in Medina, the capital and centre of Muslim world in those days. All provinces of Islamic government submitted to his obedience - with the exception of Syria, which was under Moawiya. He refused allegiance to Ali, accusing him of sheltering the murders of Othman. He recruited a large number of Syrian soldiers and made preparation for the declaration of independence of his provinces.
After settling the issue of the battle of Camel (JAMAL), Ali turned his attention to Moawiya. He wrote several letters to him, but in vain. Both sides moved their armies towards each another. Abul Aawar Salmi was leading Moawiya's advanced battalion and Malik Ashtar was in command of the advanced battalion of Ali. They met at the bank of the Euphrates. Ali's directive to Malik was not to be the first to attack. But Abul Aawar made a severe attack to intimidate the soldiers of Ali. Mailk then pushed the Syrians far behind. Salmi now thought of another tactics. He reached the Ghat, i.e. the slope on bank of the Euphrates, which was the only spot convenient to fetch water. He deployed his spearmen and archers to guard the spot and prevent Malik and his company from coming near it. Soon after, Moawiya himself arrived with a large army. Happy at the strategy of his commander he further increased the number of the soldiers guarding the approach to river. Soldiers of Ali were put in distress owing to the shortage of water. Moawiya with pleasure said: "This is our first Victory." Only one man, Amr bin Al-Aas, the shrewd minister of Moawiya did not think it a good policy. On the other side, Ali himself had arrived and was informed of the situation. He sent a letter with Saasa'a to Moawiya notifying:
"We have come here, but as far as possible we do not like to wage a war of fratricide between the Muslims. We earnestly hope to settle our differences through negotiations and discussions. But we observe that you and your followers have started using weapons of destruction before trying anything else. Besides, you have denied water on my companions. Instruct them to desist from this act, so that we can start negotiations. Of course, if you do not like anything but war, we are not afraid of it."
Moawiya consulted his advisor. The general opinion was to take advantage of the golden opportunity and ignore the letter. Only Amr bin Al-Aas against this view. He said, "You are mistaken." The fact is that Ali and his men do not want to start the war themselves, and it is because of this that they are silent at present and have tried to dissuade you from your scheme through this letter. Do not think they will retreat if you ignore their letter and continue denying them the water. Because then they will take out arms and will not stop till they have driven you away from Euphrates with disgrace." But the majority of advisors were of the opinion that the denial of water would weaken the enemy compelling them to retreat. Moawiya personally was in favor of this idea. Discussion came to end; Saasa'a asked for the reply; Moawiya, using the delaying tactics, said that he would send the reply afterwards. Meanwhile, he ordered his soldiers guarding water to be extra alert and to prevent coming and going of the soldiers of Ali.
Ali was distressed at this development, because it brought to an end every hope of any amicable settlement through talks and negotiations, and showed that the opposite side was devoid of every goodwill. Now, the only way out was to use force. He stood before his soldiers and delivered a short but forceful address, the contents of which were as follows:
"These people have started oppression, and opened the door of conflict and welcomed you with hostility. They are hungry for war and are demanding war and bloodshed from you. They have denied you water. Now you have to choose between the two paths. There is no third course. Either accept the humiliation and oppression or remain thirsty as you are, or satisfy your thirsty swords with their dirty bloods so that you may quench your thirst with the sweet water. Death is to live a defeated and disgraceful life; and Life is to be victorious even at the cost of death. Verily, Moawiya has gathered around him some ignorant and misguided mob; and is taking advantage of their ignorance, so that they are making their necks targets of the arrows of death."
This address moved the soldiers of Ali and stirred their blood. They made a severe attack and pushed the enemy far back and took the possession of (Shariah) Ghat.
Amir bin Al-Aas (whose forecast was now a fact) said to Moawiya: "Now, if Ali and his army pay you with your own coin what will you do? Can you take possession of the "Shariah" (Ghat) from them for the second time?" Moawiya said, "In your opinion, how will Ali deal with us now?"
"I believe, Ali will not behave as you had done. He will not deny us water. He has not come here for such deeds."
The soldiers of Ali after removing the soldiers of Moawiya from Ghat, asked his permission to prevent the enemy from taking water. Ali said, "Don't deny them water. These are the methods of ignorant. I do not set my hands to such acts. I am going to start negotiation with them on the basis of the Holy Book of God. If they accept my proposals, well and good; and if they refuse, I shall fight with them, but gentlemanly not by denying them water. I will never do such thing and will not oppress them by shortage of water."
Not long afterwards soldiers of Moawiya used to come to the Ghat side by side with the soldiers of Ali, and nobody prevented them.
[/QUOTE]
Sir
This is irrelevant secterian discussion. I asked about administration
and expansion of EMPIRE and you are telling me how he is trying to get
khilafat.Please, do not post SHIA myths.
please Intuit keep the secterian feelings out of this discussion.
i dont think there was much of an expansion during his reign....
and i dont know what wud be the sort of administration he employed cuz he did cause a lot of bloodshed and unrest among muslims....
which i think is poor administration and allows outsiders to interfere....
his self-centered policies also caused many companions of the Prophet (saw) separate themselves from his government....
but he was a shrew politician, as was a common trait of the Ummayads....
Sunnis have a tendency to love oppressive rulers and accept whatever government is bestowed upon them. Look at Saddam and the sunnis who accepted his rule. Same with the Taliban, Saudi Arabia, Egypt etc. Only the Shias in Iran overthrew the Shah. If the sunnis lived under Hitler or Stalin, they would praise him, and consider any insult to them as haraam.
Brother Rehman, Aslam-o-Alakum,
[QUOTE]
I want to know about his contribution to the expansionof Muslim empire, Administration and other important aspects. If possible please give the point of view of non muslims.
[/QUOTE]
Rhetorical Question
If you will post the following question and make a thread, and the question you have already posted to start this thread. In our view both questions would be the same. Which dont have any relationship with Islam.Otherwise mention it.
[quote]
I want to know about Feroon of Musa’ contribution to the expansion of Egyptian empire, Administration and other important aspects. If possible please give the point of view of non Egyptian scholars.
[/quote]
Being a Muslim you should not post these kind of Questions.
Waslam
[QUOTE]
I want to know about his contribution to the expansionof Muslim empire, Administration and other important aspects.
[/QUOTE]
Under 'other important aspects' such as his physical attributes and personal characteristics of muawiah and the love of H. Ali for him: read these sermons from nahjul balagha, the words of H. Ali the 4th caliph:
sermon 57
Amir al-mu'minin said to his companions about Mu`awiyah
Soon after me there would be put on you a man with a broad mouth and a big belly. He would swallow whatever he gets and would crave for what he does not get. You should kill him but (I know) you would not kill him. He would command you to abuse me and to renounce me. As for abusing, you do abuse me because that would mean purification for me and salvation for you. As regards renunciation, you should not renounce me because I have been born on the natural religion (Islam) and was foremost in accepting it as well as in Hijrah ( migrating from Mecca to Medina).
Sermon 200
Treason and treachery of Mu`awiyah and the fate of those guilty of treason
By Allah, [1] Mu`awiyah is not more cunning than I am, but he deceives and commits evil deeds. Had I not been hateful of deceit I would have been the most cunning of all men. But (the fact is that) every deceit is a sin and every sin is disobedience (of Allah), and every deceitful person will have a banner by which he will be recognised on the Day of Judgement. By Allah, I cannot be made forgetful by strategy, nor can I be overpowered by hardships.
Sermon 97:
Although Allah gives time to the oppressor, His catch would not spare him [1]. Allah watches him on the passage of his way and the position of that which suffocates the throats.
By Allah in Whose power my life lies, these people (Mu`awiyah and his men) will overcome you not because they have a better right than you but because of their hastening towards the wrong with their leader and your slowness about my right (to be followed). People are afraid of the oppression of their rulers while I fear the oppression of my subjects.
*And last but not least, (my words) Muaviah's most important contribution to the muslim ummah was placing his son yazid ( may the lanat of allah be upon him) upon the throne of the islamic empire. *
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Salman: *
Sunnis have a tendency to love oppressive rulers and accept whatever government is bestowed upon them. Look at Saddam and the sunnis who accepted his rule. Same with the Taliban, Saudi Arabia, Egypt etc. Only the Shias in Iran overthrew the Shah. If the sunnis lived under Hitler or Stalin, they would praise him, and consider any insult to them as haraam.
[/QUOTE]
since this is running into a sectarian thing anyways, i will post my point and expect that the mods will throwe away my post like the one i am quoting as well :)
heck Shias got Iran, from what I know the ruling clergy is just as dictatorial, if not more than the shah. and just as the sunnis in iraq sat and dealt with saddam for decades, so did the shias who were a majority population :)
but you 2 sects go ahead and fight it out. Us whirling derveshes are in teh wings to take over the whole kit 'n kaboodle
just to answer the real questyions now
I dont know of any real expansion or improvement during his rule
administration wise, i have not heard of any stellar contribution that he made, the administration handling could be summed up in one word..monrachy..when he passed on his "rule" to his son
Only god knows, but I think he was a bad choice for a khalifah and did not do what was required off him, but his actions and results of his actions created the type of rift that we see to this day between sunnis and shias.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
heck Shias got Iran, from what I know the ruling clergy is just as dictatorial, if not more than the shah.
[/QUOTE]
Guess u dont know much about Iran then cuz from what I know of the place, dictatorship is the last word that comes to mind. :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
Guess u dont know much about Iran then cuz from what I know of the place, dictatorship is the last word that comes to mind. :)
[/QUOTE]
the students who protest in the streets probably think its dictatorial..as do my Iranian friends who see the king's fall and khomeini's control as that of one messed up regime being replaced by anothe rmessed up regime.
why did ppl like khaminai and rafsanjani talk about increased representation and better political freedom. maybe they did not know much about irawn..because from what you know dictatorship is the last word that comes to mind.
Salam,
There must be some boundary line between freedom and control. Too much freedom is bad, similarly too much control is bad too. Freedom against law & Control against public-will depends on the way you think.
What is the value of Quran and Sharia?
What is the value of Public opinion & democracy?
What if both conflicts with each other?
This is not confusing. It depends on the preference you give.
However this was not the topic.
Regards,
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
Brother Rehman, Aslam-o-Alakum,
Rhetorical Question
If you will post the following question and make a thread, and the question you have already posted to start this thread. In our view both questions would be the same. Which dont have any relationship with Islam.Otherwise mention it. Being a Muslim you should not post these kind of Questions.
Waslam
[email protected]
[/QUOTE]
I asked a question. And somehow you turned it towards shiasm.
Muslim history(not Islamic) is what i was interested in.
Hazrat Ameer Mawiya(RA) was a muslim. Hence, don't compare him
to Firoun.